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Thread: Harry Potter "The Order of the Phoenix". (*spoilers*)

  1. #21
    Okay, I am done with the book! Anyone else? I can't wait to discuss it with someone! I thought it was really good, although quite different than the previous books! Just wondering how everyone else is feeling about the book

  2. #22
    hee Mdrio9's Avatar
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    Sep 2002
    New York City
    I'm on page 484!!! It's gotten even better in the last hundred pages or so.

  3. #23
    I chose to sleep Friday night so I wouldn't be too tired to read when I got the book. Got it Saturday morning at 5:00 am at Walmart for $15.71. Finished it about 12:30 am Sunday and then re-read parts of it again Sunday afternoon/evening. Does anyone else feel a little bit dissatisfied with the handling of Ron and Hermoine? Or felt that Harry's character was a bit overblown -- didn't quite have the same feel to him as in the other books -- I found myself several times not really liking him.

    Was in Walmart again Sunday, looking for something else to read, and their supply of HP V was gone.

  4. #24
    FORT Fogey kyrjar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    SPOILERS. This has some details of the book here SPOILERS so don't read if you want to enjoy the book as I did.

    Amazon was great, delivering at 11 AM just before we were driving away for the weekend. Finished it late last night.

    Anyway, I am a bit disappointed in it. Probably my 4th of 5th only list of HP books, maybe even 5th. Believe me, I will reread and may change my mind. AND, I will reread earlier books in view of things.

    Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed the process of reading it and being with the characters again. I think JR is thoroughly brilliant. I am a huge fan of these books and look forward to sharing the books (and not just the movies) with my little kids.

    But, it was sort of like Chamber for me in that it did not really move the Voldemort story along for the reader. More laying the groundwork and letting Harry mature. I did find it interesting that this whole book was about convincing the rest of the wizarding world that voldemort was back as Harry and Dumbledore had said -- and this kept VM mostly at bay for the length of the book.

    But more importantly, I was disappointed in many of the side stories and revelations at the end. I mean, we all know that Harry has got to be the one to kill VM. While it was a revelation to Harry and now he cannot be the same boy -- he wasn't entirely carefree to begin with, knowing VM wanted to kill him for some unknown reason. The reason -- a prophecy from Trelawny of all people (though this was not unexpected) -- was not the big revelation that I thought it would be. I thought the prophecy would tell us more about Harry's parents or more about Dumbledore or the Dursley's (which we learned very little more about generally). I figured that the blood relative thing was why Harry was safe, as did everyone else, already. My interest is piqued about his aunt, though.

    The next book will pick up with where I thought this one would, with the beginning of the second war -- BUT it is going to take forever to get it.

    I also did not really enjoy the romance with Cho (as I wish it would have just gotten a touch further, maybe handholding at least -- stagnant practically as muchl as Ron and Hermione's relationship). I get the sad irony that Harry no longer feels he can get attached due to his burden. So, he lost his first crush (who thinks that Ginny will ultimately turn his head, hmmm?). And, I was sad that Sirius is gone (who was not exactly the most major of characters, though I wish he had been). I felt a little cheated that his relationship with Sirius had not gotten further as well, and it certainly was not enjoyable in this book. Also, I did not get the point of his death -- except that Harry made a really big mistake and Sirius died because of that.

    Harry's relations with people generally were not enjoyable in this book. His dad looked like an idiotic jerk, which I also did not enjoy. And, the trick by VM to get Harry to do his bidding was obvious to me (and every other book surprised me alot). Plus, it seems ridiculous for VM to care so much about that prophecy -- he's always been after Harry and even had VM heard the prophecy fully, nothing major would have changed. Harry would still be his sticking point and he would try to kill him. We did not learn alot of cool new spells or anything major about the characters, or even cool, important new characters (which at least Chamber had that).

    Okay, this sounds like I hated the book. I would rather read this than pretty much anything else, really. It was very well written and I love the main characters. I think this was a groundwork laying book more than anything else. I know the last book will be fabulous. Feel free to point out anything I missed, maybe I am wrong about the revelations, relationships, new magic and new characters not being up to par (which for JR is very high).

  5. #25


    I agree on some of those, but I definately think there has to be ground work laid for what is to come. JK does a good job of doing that and bring it all to full circle later. I read where she doesn't see it as 7 novels but one big story, so this part of the story was a lot of groundwork.

    Your correct about VM not knowing anything more about the prophecy but he never heard it so he didn't know and thus spent the time to try to get it.

    I think it was vital for Harry to see his parents in a new light. To see them as real people and to know some of the reasons that Snipe hates him so much. It will eventually or has started to give Harry the depth and more full range of compassion and other emotions I think he will ultimately need to kill VM. Seeing his father at 15 and knowing he became a great man later will allow him to see his parents as human and not up on pedastals. Since Harry often has out of control emotions etc he will know more of how that came to be by seeing that in his father.

    I didn't mind the Cho storyline as it gave a real aspect into how Harry as a boy is (typically) behind in emotional maturity to girls. I liked how he didn't get certain things about Cho and how Hermione had to spell it out for the boys. I liked how it seemed very real that he was so confused around her and how she became so fickle. It was a true first experience for any boy and Harry included. It would be too "sureal" if he was a smooth guy with girls. It also leaves the door open for more discussion on what girls want between him and Ron and for more "learning" experiences with other girls ie: Ginny. Again, ground work.

    I don't think we need a real whole lot on the Dursleys, as they are supporting characters and really I think that at some point it will be a major decision for Harry to have sympathy/compassion for them and not want to react w/hate towards them ie VM style.
    I bet we get a little more on his Aunt and his moms family but not too much. I did like how she was affected by the howler and how the whole blood thing was explained. It was somewhat predictable but it was nicely played out how he has had to 'endure' them for his own safety.

    I would like to hear more about his fathers family line. I think we learned more about some of the less fancy stuff like potions and VM's ability to take over his mind and thus the lessons from snipe, I think it showed with the forming of the D.A. how and why they even attend school to learn how and when to use their powers and that it is much harder than it appears. I liked learning all the jinxes and spells that Hermione used to put on things, there were alot of new ones mentioned but not necessarily taught.

    The new horse creatures were very cool I thought and that was new as was the detail into the Giants world, more on the centaurs, there were some new plants and some new places ie the hospital and the room they needed for practice. While none of it jumped out as new and really exciting I think it went further into things we allready know ie Ministry of Magic, the Weasleys, Hagrid, etc but it answered a lot of questions too Snapes dislike, why Harry just couldn't go to the Weasleys or stay w/Hagrid over the summers, more on the Dementors, why Percy is such and ass.

    This was not my favorite Harry Potter book but I liked getting a lot of more information, I liked knowing more about his scar VM's desire to get rid of him. I liked seeing Nevelle become more of a character. I liked that Harry wasn't smooth w/girls. I liked hearing about the ghosts and it being a decision that was a good revelation. There really was a lot there but it wasn't as in your face as the others, but I think it will be a fantastic foundation for the last two books. I think Harry will come into his own and end up a teacher at Hogwarts defense against the dark arts.. He will come to terms with the death of his family including Sirius. He will end up with Ginny.. possibly. Ron hates all other boys and it could be a source of conflict for him and Ron. Eventually Harry will also see the value of the classes he hates and use some of those things too.

    ok I am done... the book was good, not my favorite but still a great read and I liked it a lot

  6. #26
    FORT Fogey kyrjar's Avatar
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    Apr 2003
    Yes, I agree with most of what you said, too.

    The new things were much more subtle and I also enjoyed reading about the giants, Centaurs and even stupidity at the Ministry of Magic.

    I also did not think Harry would be smooth with the girls, and I enjoyed reading the interactions that he had, with Hermione explaining what he had done wrong. I just wanted more to develop before he realized that he lost her. It was not as satisfying and therefore the loss not as poignant.

    I agree that his dad had to be shown as human, but he seemed more like Malfoy -- than just temperamental as with Harry (and Harry has dealt with alot more than his father at 15, it would seem). Would love to hear more about his father's wizarding family.

    I thought it was obvious why he had to stay at the Dursley's for some over the summers, at least since book 2 or 3.

    I thought Hermione was really turning into something of a real heroine. Very smart and practical. Wise and brave. Ginny, too, was given more substance. Professor McGongal was tough too. We also learned more about Sirius's family so that was good. I also like meeting more aurors and hearing what Harry needed to become one. I can't wait to hear how he did on OWLS, even cut short as they were, on the needed topics.

    I was enjoying the book most of the way through, but expecting something big towards the end. Not getting much put a damper on things.

    So true, that VM does not know what the prophecy says and therefore he would not have known it would say so little. But, the fact that it said so little (and nothing really new to the readers) was surprising. The endings have otherwise always been so powerful.

  7. #27

    Well, I will agree that this book was definitely different in tone to the other books, but I think that is why I loved it so much. This book is way up there for me because it is not plot based so much as character based.

    The main characters have changed subtly over the years, but the events in GoF really were significant, espcially for Harry. To go from the height of excitement/terror to another boring, cut-off summer at the Dursley's must have been extreme torture. I love how JKR put us in the mind of Harry and saw him struggling with feeling somewhat superior to others since he has been through so much. I think that having Harry recognize his "hero complex" in this book was a gigantic development.

    She also shows how the other characters have changed. These kids are upperclassmen now, and they act like it. People no longer are going to each other for advice for everything they do. They are beginning to act on their own, they aren't sharing every little detail of every conversation they have. They are all beginning to define their own identities.

    I absolutely loved the DA. It created the unity among houses (except Slytherin) that the sorting hat was calling for. It was great!

    The Harry/Cho relationship was very interesting. I am glad that it happened, because we don't have to sit through a long drawn out process of a relationship that isn't quite right. There is too much history between them, without a foundation of even a friendship to build off of. I think it was doomed from the start. That being said, they both grew from the experience and I am sure there will be no hard feelings from it.

    Now, Ron and Hermione had almost no direct development in their relationship... but, I think it is developing quite nicely. To me, it is plain that there is something there between them, but neither are ready to acknowledge it. I wonder if with as astute as Hermione is about other relationships, she realizes what is happening in their own. Ron and Hermione spent a lot of time together in this book. A lot of time WITHOUT Harry. A lot of time to develop actions/reactions between the two of them without outside influences. They may disagree half of the time, but they listen and respond to each other more than anyone else does. They have become able to communicate with each other in non verbal terms too (ie worried glances about how Harry is acting). I am very happy about how things developed in this book. While I would have loved a sweet romantic scene between the two of them, they aren't ready yet and it wouldn't turn out the way I wish. I think they are at just the right stage of progression.

    The other two characters worthy of mention as far as development goes are Ginny and Neville... wow. Ginny is awesome now that she talks! I love that she has a very cool personality and she is a Weasley through and through. You get the feeling that she is very mischevious, but gets away with it because she is the only girl. I loved it. And Neville... he is one of my favorite characters. I love how brave he is starting to get. He is not even close to being a Squib, he just lacks confidence in himself. He has hidden strength that was beginning to show even more in this book.

    One last thing... I liked the Cameo appearances of characters from past books and I really liked the new characters. Tonks cracked me up so much. And Luna is just interesting. Her back story has me intrigued and she has such a different attitude... it's just refreshing.

    Okay, I think I've written enough. Sorry it is such a long post. I hope it made sense.

  8. #28
    Before reading the book I had researched various rumors and teasers that the author had given. The burning questions were:

    1. How did the Potter's make their fortune, what did they do for a living?
    2. What is the importance of Lily and Harry having green eyes?
    3. Were the Potter's descendant's of Godric Gryffindor?
    4. What was Sybil Trewlaney's first prophecy?
    5. What is the importance of Voldemort having some of Harry's blood? Does this mean Voldy is now "more human"?

    The frustrating thing to me about the book was that after 870 pages, the story was never advanced very far. All of it to get to the prophecy which was pretty obvious from book 4. I had expected Dumbledore to tell Harry early in the book what he has been keeping from him for 5 years and then move on from there.
    What else did we really learn? Harry's father wasn't the perfect hero he thought he was, Lily seemed to actually dislike him at first (and this was the "something" that would be revealed about Lily?) Snape actually had reason to hate Harry's father, Dumbledore was fallible.
    Sure the thestrals and giants were interesting, and we loved to hate Umbitch (hem, hem), but will they actually play a major factor in anything?
    And what happened to the character development? Fred and George were really the highlight of the book -- I loved how they showed their allegiance to Dumbledore. And Hermoine's maturing was good, but what happened to Ron. He was made a prefect, but did he do anything with that? I don't even recall him being mentioned during the DA meetings -- we know Neville improved the most, even conquering one charm second to Hermoine. Ron's feelings were totally lacking. All the hints from book 4 of his liking Hermoine were almost completely absent in book 5. Hagrid was pretty much non-existent, and what there was of him seemed pointless. And can Draco get any more monotonous or one dimensional.
    There was some interesting new characters added. Tonks was a fun addition, and Luna was interesting. I quite enjoyed the comparison's of the Quibbler to a National Inquirer type paper -- all the animal sightings that no one believes in and that she'll see her dead mother again. I'm sure we'll also be seeing Beatrix Lestrange again -- she was certainly a devoted death eater!
    We learned about Sirius's family line but why has Harry never cared to try to find out about his own. We know Lily is muggle-born, but is the Potter line pure? If as Sirius says, all the old pure blood lines are interrelated, you would think Harry would want to know who his relatives were. In Sirius's house there was a book of lineages, but it never seems to occur to Harry to look it up. I mean these have been questions from the beginning, and we still don't have any answers. It annoys me that they are being left to the final 2 books.
    The only new question to be added after this book is: Is Neville really the chosen one? How do we know he still can't be "marked" by Voldemort?

    But I guess we'll just have to wait what seems an interminably long time to get more answers than we did with this book.

  9. #29
    Sawyer's Bitch poshpenny's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Mysterious Island

    I loved this book. I soak up like a sponge any new information about Harrys life or world. I especially enjoyed the "cameo" by Mrs. Figg, learning about Sirius' family and how he is related to the Malfoys, the DA, Nevil and Ginny becoming more confident, watching the teachers (especially McGonagall and Flitwick) being rebellious to Umbridge, seeing Dumbledore actually being powerful insead of just clever, watching the kids being actual adolecents with dates and wacky feelings, the entire wizarding conversation with the Dursleys, being absolutely annoyed with Umbridge, the Ministry and Percy, seeing new places like Blacks' house, the Ministry, and the hospital, seeing more into everyones feelings, learning more about Harrys' parents, and Ron finally having some success of his own, Ron and Hermione bickering away like kids who aren't really aware they fancy each other or are confused by it.

    I recall it being made clear that Harry was protected while living with his "family" in a previous book. It was also no surprise that Harry must be the one to destroy You-Know-Who. What I WAS surprised about was when he heard the prophecy and that IT was why the Dark Lord had tried to kill him, he didn't think that his parents were dead because of him. Hadn't we always thought Harry was there when Voldemort came to kill his parents, and so he tried to kill him too? Now it seems Volde wanted to kill Harry, and his parents were just in the way. I was expecting Harry to freak out about that. And since there were two born whom it may have been, was Nevil hidden also? I was hoping to find out what Snape has been doing. HOW is he supposed to find out what the Death Eaters are up to? I felt Fed and George would end up with a joke shop, but didn't think they'd drop out of school to do it. We also learned that Harry didn't witness his parents deaths or he would have seen the thestrals before now.

    I'm still looking forward to: learning if there is more to the Dursleys the meets the eye, what on earth is up with Snape, seeing Dumbledore kick some serious booty ala Yoda (though he did a bit of that this time), finding out who ends up with whom, something important has to happen with Nevil, will Dumbledore make it to the end of year 7, and who gets to slap Percy first (or will he go to the dark side)

    Now... it's someone else's turn to post in the worlds-longest-post thread LOL
    Draco Dormien Nuquam Titillandus

  10. #30
    Originally posted by poshpenny

    I recall it being made clear that Harry was protected while living with his "family" in a previous book. It was also no surprise that Harry must be the one to destroy You-Know-Who. What I WAS surprised about was when he heard the prophecy and that IT was why the Dark Lord had tried to kill him, he didn't think that his parents were dead because of him. Hadn't we always thought Harry was there when Voldemort came to kill his parents, and so he tried to kill him too? Now it seems Volde wanted to kill Harry, and his parents were just in the way. I was expecting Harry to freak out about that.

    I felt Fred and George would end up with a joke shop, but didn't think they'd drop out of school to do it.

    These are all really great points poshpenny. I wonder if Harry will realize that his parent's deaths are collateral damage... can you imagine the guilt he would feel?

    I can't believe I forgot to talk about F&G in my last post. These guys are simply amazing. It is interesting just how clever they are and how good at magic they really are... they just don't apply it to the normal rules. A couple of crazy geniuses. I am sure that their skills for invention could be turned to good uses in the Order as well. Let's just hope that they haven't broken Mrs. Weasley's heart by not graduating!

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