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Thread: 9/9 Show Discussion **West Coast Spoilers**

  1. #21
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: 9/9 Show Discussion **West Coast Spoilers**

    In the Diary Room, Dan said, "While I was trapped in solitary confinement, I came up with a master plan to save myself." Dan told Frank, "I brought this bible, not to read to you, but to swear on. I have no power in this game. I do have information. (Dan tells Frank about alliances). Dan said, "This kid, (Ian), is ruthless. He, (Ian), is covered on every angle." Dan said to Frank, "I've never made an action against you. I've never voted against you. No one would ever think we'd be working together." Dan said to Frank, "No, I swear to God. Jenn is actually angry that I did that to Danielle. It's come down to you working Jenn." Dan said to Frank, about what he, (Dan), will say to Danielle... "That was an act. I'm trying to save us both and I think I just did." Dan said, "I swear to God on this, (the bible), on my wedding ring, on my chain from my dead grandfather, everything I'm telling you is the complete truth." Later, in the Diary Room, Dan said, "I was willing to swear on the bible to go to the end with Frank, and the crazy thing is I actually mean it." .................. Ian isn't ruthless: he's trusting. It's Dan who is ruthless... so Dan telling Frank that Ian is ruthless, is a lie that he swore on the bible. Dan told Frank that he, (Dan), has never made an action against Frank, and that no one would think they'd be working together. Well, Dan had never made an action against Frank, but he was in the act of taking him out of the game, and they wouldn't be working together. (Dan got off on a technicality with that particular statement, because Dan was speaking in the past tense and not the present tense). Then Dan told Frank that he would say to Danielle that he had just tried to save both of them. Actually, Dan had said in the Diary Room, that his master plan was about saving himself... not both himself, (Dan), and Danielle. So, the statement Dan made to Frank about saving Danielle was a lie that he swore to on the bible. So, everything Dan told Frank wasn't he complete truth. Also, Dan stumbled over the words, wedding ring, and chain. And, in the next Diary Room comment, Dan said he meant what he had told Frank. Did Dan believe his own lies? Also, in the Diary Room, Dan said that he swore on the bible to go to the end with Frank. Dan didn't specifically swear on the bible that he would go to the end with Frank... but he, (Dan), admitted that it should be implied that his swearing on the bible meant that he would go to the end with Frank.
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  2. #22
    Just Left of Reality tbamom's Avatar
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    Re: 9/9 Show Discussion **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by bachelorwatcher View Post
    In the Diary Room, Dan said, "While I was trapped in solitary confinement, I came up with a master plan to save myself." Dan told Frank, "I brought this bible, not to read to you, but to swear on. I have no power in this game. I do have information. (Dan tells Frank about alliances). Dan said, "This kid, (Ian), is ruthless. He, (Ian), is covered on every angle." Dan said to Frank, "I've never made an action against you. I've never voted against you. No one would ever think we'd be working together." Dan said to Frank, "No, I swear to God. Jenn is actually angry that I did that to Danielle. It's come down to you working Jenn." Dan said to Frank, about what he, (Dan), will say to Danielle... "That was an act. I'm trying to save us both and I think I just did." Dan said, "I swear to God on this, (the bible), on my wedding ring, on my chain from my dead grandfather, everything I'm telling you is the complete truth." Later, in the Diary Room, Dan said, "I was willing to swear on the bible to go to the end with Frank, and the crazy thing is I actually mean it." .................. Ian isn't ruthless: he's trusting. It's Dan who is ruthless... so Dan telling Frank that Ian is ruthless, is a lie that he swore on the bible. Dan told Frank that he, (Dan), has never made an action against Frank, and that no one would think they'd be working together. Well, Dan had never made an action against Frank, but he was in the act of taking him out of the game, and they wouldn't be working together. (Dan got off on a technicality with that particular statement, because Dan was speaking in the past tense and not the present tense). Then Dan told Frank that he would say to Danielle that he had just tried to save both of them. Actually, Dan had said in the Diary Room, that his master plan was about saving himself... not both himself, (Dan), and Danielle. So, the statement Dan made to Frank about saving Danielle was a lie that he swore to on the bible. So, everything Dan told Frank wasn't he complete truth. Also, Dan stumbled over the words, wedding ring, and chain. And, in the next Diary Room comment, Dan said he meant what he had told Frank. Did Dan believe his own lies? Also, in the Diary Room, Dan said that he swore on the bible to go to the end with Frank. Dan didn't specifically swear on the bible that he would go to the end with Frank... but he, (Dan), admitted that it should be implied that his swearing on the bible meant that he would go to the end with Frank.
    The Bible doesn't mean anything to me but I find it offensive that it is used as a tool of manipulation when faith is important to some. It is like saying F&*$ you and your beliefs.

    I know it is all a game and about a TV show, however integrity and respect is so important in life that I wish I'd see more modeling of it....and then I ask myself why do I watch reality TV and what do I expect. This is probably why I loved the Bopper and Mark team so much on AR last season.
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    That was a great message! And I've had a terrible day, so thank you.I love random acts of kindness.Really, realy appreciated.Scott- RIP SDL<3

  3. #23
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    Re: 9/9 Show Discussion **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by tbamom View Post
    The Bible doesn't mean anything to me but I find it offensive that it is used as a tool of manipulation when faith is important to some. It is like saying F&*$ you and your beliefs. I know it is all a game and about a TV show, however integrity and respect is so important in life that I wish I'd see more modeling of it....and then I ask myself why do I watch reality TV and what do I expect. This is probably why I loved the Bopper and Mark team so much on AR last season.
    Dan seems like a typical politician to me... very few politicians are helpful. Also, people like Dan tend to be very successful... with the best houses and cars. I know people like Dan... they ruthlessly use others to get what they want. Big Brother is a reflection of real life.

  4. #24
    Magical Elf MFWalkoff's Avatar
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    Re: 9/9 Show Discussion **West Coast Spoilers**

    Well, he's been a low-paid teacher at a Catholic high school in the outskirts of Detroit before he found Big Brother, so I don't really see what you're seeing. He's a sly player partly because of his experience as a football coach and a chess player. He thinks ahead of other people in the house, and observes their personalities and behaviors, and plays his game based on what he observes.

    He's more cut-throat this year than in his season, but other than lying about his alliances to people (which is part of the game, most players do it), and using Dani as bait in a few strategies before letting her in on it, he hasn't been disrespectful to anyone.

    Personally I want Ian to win everything, but IMO I have to admire Dan's willingness to play at such an extreme level. It may be overkill considering the people that are left, but it's an achievement for this show for sure.
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  5. #25
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    Re: 9/9 Show Discussion **West Coast Spoilers**

    I agree with all you said MF, but I want to see Dan win. It would be a first in the history of this game and never will be repeated. And, of course, I love his game play.

  6. #26
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    Re: 9/9 Show Discussion **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by MFWalkoff View Post
    Well, he's been a low-paid teacher at a Catholic high school in the outskirts of Detroit before he found Big Brother, so I don't really see what you're seeing. He's a sly player partly because of his experience as a football coach and a chess player. He thinks ahead of other people in the house, and observes their personalities and behaviors, and plays his game based on what he observes. He's more cut-throat this year than in his season, but other than lying about his alliances to people (which is part of the game, most players do it), and using Dani as bait in a few strategies before letting her in on it, he hasn't been disrespectful to anyone. Personally I want Ian to win everything, but IMO I have to admire Dan's willingness to play at such an extreme level. It may be overkill considering the people that are left, but it's an achievement for this show for sure.
    Dan uses people to get what he wants in the game. He takes advantage of other's trusting natures. Whenever he opens his mouth in the Diary Room, he lies or talks about ruthlessly backstabbing people for the money. I don't admire him.

  7. #27
    Magical Elf MFWalkoff's Avatar
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    Re: 9/9 Show Discussion **West Coast Spoilers**

    I agree that the extent to which he's been deceiving others is overkill for this season -- the others just aren't that smart, and he probably didn't need to play quite as hard to keep himself alive. Then again, he had three other vet players to contend with, not just the naive newbies, so he probably felt like it was kill or be killed every day in the early weeks of the reset.

    Dan was my favorite BB winner of all time, because he wasn't a jerk to people in the house in his season, and the jury realized that they couldn't hate him even though he was personally responsible for most of their evictions. The shine of that Dan is off this new Dan, so I'm not liking his gameplay as much this time either. But I don't think it extends to his real life as much as you do. How can any of us know that, unless we know him personally? His wife certainly seems to be thrilled with how he's doing, in her tweets and interviews and blog posts...
    "Whatever you are, be a good one." Abraham Lincoln
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  8. #28
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    Re: 9/9 Show Discussion **West Coast Spoilers**

    I really don't see how Dan's ability to lie convincingly makes him a sociopath. I can lie extremely well, but I also feel guilt or empathy quite often, so...not a sociopath. I have also known sociopaths who were dreadful liars because they didn't have enough of a connection with human emotion to know how to do it convincingly. And with respect to what "Dan did to Danielle", I thought that her response was over the top. If I were in her position and Dan said to me "you know what you did" when I hadn't done anything, I would be puzzled, not whiny, hysterical or paranoid.
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  9. #29
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    Re: 9/9 Show Discussion **West Coast Spoilers**

    Dan lies well, we all agree. The question is whether he feels any guilt or empathic sadness about it. You'd think if he did he'd say so in his diary room sessions. Maybe he is and TPTB are choosing not to show that to us for some reason (maybe he's offended them by offing Frank and surving!). But if he is not, then that does support that he is not the "nice Catholic boy" he seemed to be last time. For example, he could say, I feel bad using Ian, who's looking up to me, but the kid is just too smart to take to the end. Or, I feel bad using Dani who's a needy nutcase (or some more polite version), but he doesn't, at least not that I recall seeing.

    I agree Dan is playing well, but he's more similar to Dr. Will this time around than to the Dan we saw on our screens last time. Who knows which is the true Dan? I do like that he doesn't go out of his way to badmouth his 'enemies" in the game the way so many players have done in the past and this season ad nauseum--to the point that the feeds become painful to read about. In that sense he's playing a "good guy" game. He's definitely in it to win it....how else are he and Chelsea going to get a nice house given his salary (oh, and his leftover winnings from last time)...but that doesn't mean he can't spare a moment to feel a bit sad about what he has to do to win it.

  10. #30
    Just Left of Reality tbamom's Avatar
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    Re: 9/9 Show Discussion **West Coast Spoilers**

    I guess I will grant that as I don't know Dan in the Real World and only edited Dan saying that he is a sociopath is a bit extreme, however his self congratulatory posterising in front of the cameras after "putting one over" on someone else leads me to believe that he feels no remorse for his actions. He is preying on people's insecurities and weaknesses in a way that, in my opinion goes beyond playing a game for money and becomes playing head games. I am not discounting how brilliant he is at it all I am saying is that in a person with a healthy psyche it wouldn't come so effortlessly. Dr Wil was another person whose game was flawless as a manipulator. If he was shown even in private acknowledging how damaging his behaviour is to other's spirit then I'd be able to see it more as a separation with the game and less as a reflection of his character.
    That was a great message! And I've had a terrible day, so thank you.I love random acts of kindness.Really, realy appreciated.Scott- RIP SDL<3

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