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Thread: Last Words ... Bachelorette 5

  1. #181
    FORT Fogey KatesMom's Avatar
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    Re: Last Words ... Bachelorette 5

    Quote Originally Posted by MayJ;3628326;


    Do you want to start a "MF TO-DO" thread...?? It's beyond me !!

    I'm so tired of the scripted lying... yes it's TV, but by definition does it have to be more scam and less reality if the ratings might soar with some honesty.....MF needs a conscience-transplant and ratings from happier fans could be the surgeon......so many are obviously tired of being constantly manipulated............ like the non-smarmy contestants that have been there in good faith and 'dumped'.

    I ask again,what would clean up this show for you..... what would RESTORE SOME REALITY...... and I'll throw out my first example again... less splice & dice of the natural conversations we're dying to hear
    I will start by saying I agree with you. But, I don't think MF would ever go for it. And to be honest, I am starting to think the viewing public, regardless of what they say, wouldn't either. Let's look at some facts:

    1. The ending of Jason's season, when all the stuff about the big scandal leaked out, was the biggest ratings grabber the franchise has had in years.

    2. At the beginning of every season, this season included, I can't believe how many comments get posted about how boring the season is. It is only once the drama kicks into high gear that people start getting invested and comment and watch.

    So, much as people say they just want to see a love story, I unfortunately do not think that is true for many. I think what they mostly hate is that they feel like they are being duped. Sort of like they like the drama and action, but want to know that it is real drama and action, not fabricated. I think a plain, old, boring love story would be a ratings bomb. That is JMO, based on what I have seen people post over the seasons.

  2. #182
    FORT Fogey Phyllie's Avatar
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    Re: Last Words ... Bachelorette 5

    Quote Originally Posted by bamabrain;3628335;
    Sorry, but I ain't asking MF for anything. Look what happened to Faust. Nah, long ago I decided to go with the flow . . . er, the sharks.



    I agree. And you know, most of all, MF has inadvertently brought together a savvy group on FORT, so for that, I'm thankful.
    Swim with the sharks but try not to offer yourself up as bait. (words to live by Reid, Kiptyn etc!)

    Glad my remark invoked this last comment. Proves a few cooler heads prevail when positioned on opposite sides of the Fliess tug of war. I agree whole heartedly, although, I do occassionally have pronoun, verb usage and sentence structure anxiety.

  3. #183
    FORT Fogey bizbachfan's Avatar
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    Re: Last Words ... Bachelorette 5

    [QUOTE=HopelesRomantic;3627967;]I hope the big news next week is a youtube video showing us how Jillian's family persuaded her to pick Ed over Kiptyn. I dare some of you to go back and watch this season with an open mind and tell me the love story wasn't between Kiptyn and Jillian until her Dad convinced her otherwise. She should listen to her Mom more. Her Dad wanted a drinking buddy and her Mom wanted her to find a husband. FLEISS IS A GENIUS, WOW!! I find it really interesting too that we have not heard a peep out of her family since the finale. Looks just like DeAnna's season when we heard nothing from the Pappas family and we all know how that turned out.
    I think as Moms, we should raise our daughters to have good self-esteem. I can see why Jeremy is fired up about this season because the same thing happened to him in DeAnna's season that happened to Kiptyn this season. The bachelorette lacked the self esteem to choose the bachelor that would enrich her life and help her grow as an individual over the bachelor that was her type (which has not been working). I am happy to see that Jeremy has been able to forgive DeAnna and have a friendship with her recently.

    Interesting take but I don't see this at all. Jillian's father told her the truth, Kip had to be asked about his feelings for her while Ed asked for her hand in marriage. Big difference.

    Her family liked both guys so I doubt it influenced her.

    As for Deanna's family they supported she and Jesse very much and he visited her home and she went to his and then they spent every day together for months.

    I think D chose Jesse over Jeremy and Jason because he was more full of life and more like her. Jeremy need not "forgive" D, she made her choice he signed up for that. Yes its cruel the producers lead him to believe she might take him back. That was not D's fault.

    I don't think D has self esteem issues more like she wants perfect and that doesn't exist.

    Jillian does seem to have some self esteem issues but hopefully she is working through them and going on the show boosted her confidence up and seh can make it with Ed. I don't really care for Ed, think Kip is wonderful and Reid darling, but she made her choice, so guess she will have to figure it out.

  4. #184
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    Re: Last Words ... Bachelorette 5

    Quote Originally Posted by annabanana2;3628321;
    Interesting post, blasie.
    I don't dislike her but she was a disappointment in some ways maybe because she is Canadian and I had hoped for someone more refined to represent us?

    I agree with this. I was hoping she would come across as more classy and less crass, uncouth, and wild.

    As a Canadian, I hope people don't think we're all like this. Some of us DO have good grammar, are not wild partiers, etc etc.

    I thought Jillian, other than her fashion choices, came across as very "small-town" and it was rather embarrassing.

    Quote Originally Posted by annabanana2;3628321;
    Some of the things that have been bothering me:
    -talking about her sex life on Nat'l TV, not even Shayne, the typical sex kitten went that far.
    -Ed has seemed a touch uncomfortable or ill at ease during the interviews (not sure why, could be any # of reasons) but it's like he's in over his head.
    -how many times I heard her say that the guys "adored" her (or some such thing) I didn't see evidence of that and it's presumptuous on her part.
    -that someone like AC would focus on the sex thing, yuck
    -her comment (which I have referred to many times) that women would be proud of her at the end. I'm still puzzling over that..what was she thinking?
    And as far as her moving in with him, that's fine and all but why would she feel the need to advertise it? Why not keep it private and personal?
    I don't know, it's all very weird.
    Great post. I cringed when Jillian talked about their sex life on ATFR. It was just so wrong and definitely TMI.

    I think Ed seems uncomfortable or ill at ease during the interviews because HE IS. He's uncomfortable with the limelight, the idea of being engaged, her moving to Chicago/moving in with him, everything IMO. One big reason I don't see this working out. I think it's all too much too soon for him.

    Personally, I lost a ton of respect for Jill as this season went along.

  5. #185
    FORT Fogey KatesMom's Avatar
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    Re: Last Words ... Bachelorette 5

    Quote Originally Posted by HopelesRomantic;3627967;
    I hope the big news next week is a youtube video showing us how Jillian's family persuaded her to pick Ed over Kiptyn. I dare some of you to go back and watch this season with an open mind and tell me the love story wasn't between Kiptyn and Jillian until her Dad convinced her otherwise. She should listen to her Mom more. Her Dad wanted a drinking buddy and her Mom wanted her to find a husband. FLEISS IS A GENIUS, WOW!! I find it really interesting too that we have not heard a peep out of her family since the finale. Looks just like DeAnna's season when we heard nothing from the Pappas family and we all know how that turned out.

    I think as Moms, we should raise our daughters to have good self-esteem. I can see why Jeremy is fired up about this season because the same thing happened to him in DeAnna's season that happened to Kiptyn this season. The bachelorette lacked the self esteem to choose the bachelor that would enrich her life and help her grow as an individual over the bachelor that was her type (which has not been working). I am happy to see that Jeremy has been able to forgive DeAnna and have a friendship with her recently.

    PS: I feel good about the way I am raising my 9 year old daughter. After watching President Obama's inaugruation speech, in its entirety, she looked at me and said "Mommy, I am going to be the 1st Female President of the USA". I replied, "you can do anything you set your mind to do".
    I know many saw a love story with Kip. I never did. I saw that she was physically attracted to him and I think that she was in awe of him, and perhaps in love with the concept of him. But I never saw the type of love with Kip that I saw with Ed or even Reid.

    One comment I did want to make on this - as the concept of choosing the one who will enrich you or sees you as you can be (mostly with regard to Reid) has been mentioned here many times. And this is only my opinion from my experience. I have been married twice. The first time was to a wonderful man who saw potential in me that I did not see in myself at the time. I loved the person he saw that I could be. However, over the years, that "vision" became absolutely exhausting, and he constantly reminded me of how I was not living up to my potential. I began to see that he was in love with the possibility of what I could become - but not really in love with me as I was. I grew to resent him and secretly hate it every single time he would make a comment about how I could do better. Finally, I couldn't take it anymore and I had to leave.

    Then I met my current husband. He never expected me to be anything other than what I was at the time. He loved me for who and what I was, warts and all. He has never asked me to change and I have never asked him to change. And you know what happened? Both of us have changed over the last 4 years - for the better. We have both strived to become better people and better visions of ourselves, not because the other was pushing us to, but because the other loved us for who and what we were. With that unconditional love and acceptance that what we were was good enough - both of us felt the self-motivated desire to strive for something better. And we were there to support each other and grow together. Our relationship today is better than it was when we met 5 years ago and got married 4 years ago. I am constantly amazed at the person he is becoming. Better yet, I am amazed at the person I am becoming.

    What I am trying to say is that at the end of the day, someone else seeing the potential in you does not make you grow. Having someone who accepts you exactly as you are and telling you that is good enough for them - that is what makes you grow. Because then you find it in yourself and you are doing it for you, not because you feel like you have to live up to someone else's expectations.

  6. #186
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    Re: Last Words ... Bachelorette 5

    Regarding Jillian's insecurity, I think part of the reason she is so "ga-ga" over ED is that he cannot believe a guy like ED is choosing to be with her. My guess is ED is either 1) the type of guy who doesn't give her the time of day, or 2) the type of guy that dates a bit but is constantly disappointed in when he either breaks up with her, cheats on her or whatever. So she is living her fantasy right now because she "snagged" ED. But fear that soon Jillian will be brokenhearted by him.

    I think that both Kiptyn and Reid's classy families are probably VERY THANKFUL their sons dodged this bullet that is Jillian. I just don't think she has the sophistication for either of them.

  7. #187
    FORT Fan deedreamer's Avatar
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    Re: Last Words ... Bachelorette 5

    Quote Originally Posted by annabanana2;3628321;
    Interesting post, blasie.
    I don't dislike her but she was a disappointment in some ways maybe because she is Canadian and I had hoped for someone more refined to represent us?
    Some of the things that have been bothering me:
    -talking about her sex life on Nat'l TV, not even Shayne, the typical sex kitten went that far.
    -Ed has seemed a touch uncomfortable or ill at ease during the interviews (not sure why, could be any # of reasons) but it's like he's in over his head.
    -how many times I heard her say that the guys "adored" her (or some such thing) I didn't see evidence of that and it's presumptuous on her part.
    -that someone like AC would focus on the sex thing, yuck
    -her comment (which I have referred to many times) that women would be proud of her at the end. I'm still puzzling over that..what was she thinking?
    And as far as her moving in with him, that's fine and all but why would she feel the need to advertise it? Why not keep it private and personal?
    I don't know, it's all very weird.
    I am a mature (55+) Canadian woman and I am in no way dissapointed in how Gillian represented herself. Yes she talked about her sex life but with how this show is edited, to not talk about it would be like trying to ignore the elephant in the room. She talked about it openly and honestly as a young vibrant woman with no shame. Often things not talked about get even more blown out of proportion than those adressed simply and straight forward.

    She said the guys adored her because that is how they made her feel. She felt adored by them. And she has already said that she reads the blogs and such so she knows that the guys giving interviews have all said that she is a fantastic person so why shouldn't she feel adored.

    As for Anderson Cooper talking to her about sex - well his question would be more attributable to a lack of class on his part. Her answer was 100 times classier than his question.

    As for announcing that she was moving in with him. Why not. It is her way of saying yes this is real and yes we are going ahead with a future. If she remained in BC and did not plan in moving to Chicago she would be flooded with comments like Molly has been for not moving to Seattle. People would not believe that the couple was real. I am goin out on a limb here and predicting that both of these couples will wed. One thing that I see in their favor is that both couples are fulfilling their contractual obligations to appear in public but are for the most part conducting their life in private...or at least as much privacy as living in a fish bowl can afford them.

    I am not stating this as an Ed fan because I was on the Reid train all the way. (My heart melts when I see him and think any mother would be proud to claim him as her son.)

    Everyone says they want a love story but when they get one - just because it is not the story they wanted to hear - they turn negative and throw terrible remarks around (I am not directing this at you but people in general) People need to chill out and acknowledge that someway through all the garbage and drama, two people found their way together through the maize to arrive at the starting line to have a life together. TB finale is a finale only to the show. It is essentially a long gruesome screening interview that allows two people to arrive at the starting line of what hopefully for them will be a life together. Let them have their chance. If it works out then be happy for them. If it doesn't, remember It is not up to them to live up to your expectations.

    If you think someone you care about is going to have a fall...you have a choice. You can either poke at them and make them more nervous and vulnerable by your words of warning or you can support them and encourage them and be there for them as a soft place to fall if they need it.

    Tomorrow you are going to get up and go about your life in the same way as you always do. Jillian and Ed are not going to come and tell you how you should think or feel or act so give them the courtesy of doing the same.
    Last edited by deedreamer; 07-31-2009 at 01:56 PM.
    Choices are the hinges of destiny.

  8. #188
    Summer Break bamabrain's Avatar
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    Re: Last Words ... Bachelorette 5

    Beer summit, anyone? (Or for that matter, I'd prefer a dirty martini summit.)

    Seriously, what I love about FORT is the variety of opinions expressed vocally and often.

  9. #189
    FORT Fogey KatesMom's Avatar
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    Re: Last Words ... Bachelorette 5

    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan09;3628384;
    Regarding Jillian's insecurity, I think part of the reason she is so "ga-ga" over ED is that he cannot believe a guy like ED is choosing to be with her. My guess is ED is either 1) the type of guy who doesn't give her the time of day, or 2) the type of guy that dates a bit but is constantly disappointed in when he either breaks up with her, cheats on her or whatever. So she is living her fantasy right now because she "snagged" ED. But fear that soon Jillian will be brokenhearted by him.

    I think that both Kiptyn and Reid's classy families are probably VERY THANKFUL their sons dodged this bullet that is Jillian. I just don't think she has the sophistication for either of them.
    I actually feel exactly the opposite. Based on what we have seen of the 3, I think Kip and Reid were "out of her league" and the type of guy she was not used to being with. I get the impression that Ed is exactly the type of guy she is used to being with - which is in part why she chose him. Whether it is another doomed relationship in her pattern or whether this will be the one that works, who knows. But the two of them strike me as two peas in a pod, at their core.

  10. #190
    Yes we Did! - Twice!! Katydyd's Avatar
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    Re: Last Words ... Bachelorette 5

    Quote Originally Posted by KatesMom;3628383;
    I know many saw a love story with Kip. I never did. I saw that she was physically attracted to him and I think that she was in awe of him, and perhaps in love with the concept of him. But I never saw the type of love with Kip that I saw with Ed or even Reid.

    One comment I did want to make on this - as the concept of choosing the one who will enrich you or sees you as you can be (mostly with regard to Reid) has been mentioned here many times. And this is only my opinion from my experience. I have been married twice. The first time was to a wonderful man who saw potential in me that I did not see in myself at the time. I loved the person he saw that I could be. However, over the years, that "vision" became absolutely exhausting, and he constantly reminded me of how I was not living up to my potential. I began to see that he was in love with the possibility of what I could become - but not really in love with me as I was. I grew to resent him and secretly hate it every single time he would make a comment about how I could do better. Finally, I couldn't take it anymore and I had to leave.

    Then I met my current husband. He never expected me to be anything other than what I was at the time. He loved me for who and what I was, warts and all. He has never asked me to change and I have never asked him to change. And you know what happened? Both of us have changed over the last 4 years - for the better. We have both strived to become better people and better visions of ourselves, not because the other was pushing us to, but because the other loved us for who and what we were. With that unconditional love and acceptance that what we were was good enough - both of us felt the self-motivated desire to strive for something better. And we were there to support each other and grow together. Our relationship today is better than it was when we met 5 years ago and got married 4 years ago. I am constantly amazed at the person he is becoming. Better yet, I am amazed at the person I am becoming.

    What I am trying to say is that at the end of the day, someone else seeing the potential in you does not make you grow. Having someone who accepts you exactly as you are and telling you that is good enough for them - that is what makes you grow. Because then you find it in yourself and you are doing it for you, not because you feel like you have to live up to someone else's expectations.
    Beautiful post!
    "With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world."
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