*SPOILERS* 7/5 Show Discussion: 7th Episode

[jenoy2001]

I agree with you! Roberto isn't getting good edits because he is F1. Chris is getting more airtime and better edits because he is F2 and is possibly being set up at the next Bachelor. Ali and Roberto are the ones who have the chemistry.

I hope so! I also agree with the poster who compared this season to Meredith's. They haven't showed a real love story since Trista & Ryan. Roberto is the obvious choice and that hasn't been done since... who knows when. So in whatever warped or convoluted way she picks him (rejects him then changes her mind when she realizes what a good thing she had?), if they do indeed end up together, we can't say they haven't shown us the "love" story.

[emusha]

Ali kissed Jake closed mouth too.

Good thing Chris L has a good fan base, because the talking about his mom is no different than Tenley's talk about her ex.

So I thought I was a bit crazy because I was seeing things when nobody else saw it...sooo I went back and replayed the scene 3 times and I'm now convinced Ali's kiss she gave to roberto had a lot more intimacy, passion and urgency than kisses I've seen her be part of. I am convinced her lips were parted as she kissed roberto and his were too... I don't really know what everyone is calling open-mouthed kiss so I'm just describing what I saw...in addition to Ali grabbing part of Roberto's shirt.

another thing I saw was that Ali was looking down after the kiss and he kissed her forehead and she kissed his neck/cheek ... somehow I sense vulnerability from Ali after the kiss so I looked up what a lowered head body language means...this is what I found

A lowered head covers the neck with the chin and hence can be a defensive posture that can occur as a result of any perceived threat (not just physical threat).
Lowering the head also lowers the eyes and hence can be a sign of submission, effectively saying 'I dare not even look at you'. The eyes are typically also lowered here. It can be driven by affection ('you are so wonderful') or fear ('you might hurt me if I look at you').

Thinking back on it, I don't think their date was that bad either. They both laughed alot and seemed to have fun while taking the pictures. At the beginning Ali questioned whether Roberto can have fun and be goofy, and after the picture taking, he showed her that he can.

I agree it was fun to watch that part...
I think that was a big leap in his edit...i am glad we were allowed to see that now. his storyline is definitely progressing and we finally go something personal (his approach to situations :keep it fun and appreciate...)

[VAgirl79]

They cut the whole night portion of the date. I did think the day part got a little deeper. He tries hard to get her to open up and she backs down as a defense mechanism. Told her he was so excited for her to meet his family, said he wasn't nervous when she asked but so excited for her to see them, and told her he wanted her to be free to ask all the questions she had. She just doesn't think someone can be good looking and nice so shuts down.

But in spite of what they cut, he is blogging about what we saw. He knows how much time Jake and Vienna took up, so he knows we only saw a small part of each date. The only thing they showed us that she learned about him was he's excited to go on a HTD, and his mom fixes Spanish food dishes. How is that digging deeper? I mean... seriously, I know that Chris H. lies like a rug, but that makes no sense.

[mnmhughes]

The only "happy" ending we are going to get this season is Frank getting back together with Nicole . Which most of us can go with out seeing including ME

Maybe that will be the only twirl we will get this season. Do you think I'msotired will consider that an acceptable twirl? =)

[ChelsieFan]

Sometimes I think the insecurity or should I say the degree of insecurity is an act. I also think it can be a shield used so people don't get mad at her for not picking someone. If she comes across pathetic she gets more sympathy. She was very outspoken and really said what she felt on Jake's season even right to him. She also did a little scripting of her own so she's not 100% innocent. Not saying she's a terrible person but I don't know if we are seeing Ali in her authentic and true state at all times.

[VAgirl79]

Sometimes I think the insecurity or should I say the degree of insecurity is an act. I also think it can be a shield used so people don't get mad at her for not picking someone. If she comes across pathetic she gets more sympathy. She was very outspoken and really said what she felt on Jake's season even right to him. She also did a little scripting of her own so she's not 100% innocent. Not saying she's a terrible person but I don't know if we are seeing Ali in her authentic and true state at all times.

If that's how her mind is working, how sad is that? Make yourself look pathetic so you don't make total strangers mad at you? That's beyond pitiful, if that's the case.

Late commenting on this as well, but someone said they think, based on the gf hugging and smiling at Frank in the previews, that his whole "character" was scripted from the get-go: Yup, I concur. He's seemed like a cartoon to me from night one.

[chrisg]

That said, admittedly I'm no fan of Jake's, and I never was a Vienna fan. I do think she makes things up from time to time and is immature. But, Jake knew all that. And Jake acted like an unbelievable jackass tonight! What is wrong with that man? They sure didn't "protect their star." He came across looking absolutely horrible. I think both of them stretch the truth at times, but to me Vienna came across as far more credible than he did. And regardless of what she's done in her life, she doesn't deserve to be talked to like he talked to her tonight. He was plain cruel and mean. And if he's like that in public, imagine how he behaves in private! I was quickly reminded of his lecture to Chelsie on DWTS about her being "disrespectful" to him too. He is disgusting! Total and complete sexist, IMO.

ITA, VAgirl. I've never particularly liked either Jake or Vienna as they both have always come across as superficial fame hos, IMO, but I was very surprised at how Vienna was decidedly more authentic in that interview.

And the main reveal was how obnoxious Jake was and he added copious supporting evidence to other moments where he has shown himself to be a control freak who has no respect for women - including wildly underscoring the very points Vienna was trying to make about him.

And, under those circumstances, I would have been interrupting him, too, since he apparently just does not get it. Totally disgusting is right. :nono

And I think CH did his best to cast Vienna in a worse light with his lines of questioning but Jake just kept proving the points Vienna was making.

He's angry, controlling, and has issues with women.

I still wonder if he's struggling with homosexuality and is so unhappy that he takes it out on women.

That crossed my mind, too, CF and he pinged my gaydar a couple of times in that interview.

[biglove44]

But in spite of what they cut, he is blogging about what we saw. He knows how much time Jake and Vienna took up, so he knows we only saw a small part of each date. The only thing they showed us that she learned about him was he's excited to go on a HTD, and his mom fixes Spanish food dishes. How is that digging deeper? I mean... seriously, I know that Chris H. lies like a rug, but that makes no sense.

He did try to explain what kind of person he was before that got cut out. He tries to live his life as simple as possible, have fun, and is very appreciative of "moments". He made that clear to her that he felt lucky and appreciative of his moments with her.

[ChelsieFan]

He did try to explain what kind of person he was before that got cut out. He tries to live his life as simple as possible, have fun, and is very appreciative of "moments". He made that clear to her that he felt lucky and appreciative of his moments with her.

That's what I picked up on too. We got more of a look into how he lives and his outlook on life. I think he's a what you see is what you get kind of guy.

[emusha]

I agree.

I noticed something tonight. During Kirk's date one of Ali's comments really made me feel that she doesn't think these men would approach her or even be in a relationship with her if she wasn't ..."the Bachelorette". I think this insecurity of hers is causing her to push away these men--especially noticed it tonight. Fear that these men wouldn't like her without the hair stylist (ummm, trust me Ali, you're better without whoever was doing your hair for the TB), fashion advisor, makeup artist, etc. That or she's freakin' out because she doesn't want any of these guys to get down on one knee anytime soon.

Or....it's possible I'm just drinking the koolaid MF is serving up.

ITA!