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Thread: Edit Analysis

  1. #2961
    FORT Fogey Phyllie's Avatar
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Alanna;3615039;
    I think the SL they originally assigned to Kip: never been heartbroken, heartbroken by Jilly Bean and now gets to be the Bach has surprised them by paling in comparison to Reid's SL. He couldn't commit, jump in fast enough, blahblah, got heartbroken and now he "knows" to take a chance on love and becomes the next Bach.

    Reid arrived in LA a whole day before either Ed or Kip. This could be because Kip was already in Cali and Ed had a conference and arrived a day later. But it still doesn't explain why Reid was there a day earlier? LisaMill speculated that it's either because he's F1 and got there early to see Jill or he's the next Bach. I believe the leaks can't be wrong (Fleiss wouldn't fill two ATFR and cupcakes wouldn't report if the audience was told to lie) so I think he's the Bach. Not sure because the questions they were asking Jake were suspicious.
    Not to mention all of that stuff in Chris Harrison's blog about Reid not making the same mistake again, and how he'll learn from not making the leap sooner, blah blah blah.

  2. #2962
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Maybe he just wanted to fly in a day early. I wouldn't read too much into that.

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    FORT Fanatic victoria's Avatar
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Benny Fan;3615182;
    I do like Ed. I really do... and have avoided getting into all the rumors and speculation and focused strictly on the show's Ed. I just have a lot of trouble "reiding" his relationship with her. Maybe they ARE a great match... obviously I can only go by what I see on screen.

    I'm more upset about the way he's edited. I understand that others like Jesse were not "perfect" F1s, but with drinking scenes on MTA and competitive comments... I'm clueless what the producers are doing with him. If Chris Harrison really likes Jillian and is still praising her in all of his interviews and blogs, why would he turn a blind eye to her boyfriend's Ed-it?
    Bringing this over from another thread since it pertains to editing and hoping Jack Benny Fan sees it here.

    My thoughts on Ed's edit, as I see it. I know it comes off as a head-scratcher, but I feel like that clip of Ed drunk in Vancouver was intended by TPTB to be endearing. Ed was ridiculous & useless, but ultimately harmless -- not an angry drunk. Clearly, it went over like a lead balloon with the lion's share of FoRT viewers. The passing of gas during the RC? It was tucked in with Michael Stags (very well-liked by viewers) "tooting" as well, plus Jillian telling CH that she thinks the finger-pulling gag is funny. These were intended (whether it worked or not) to humanize Ed, make him likable, display a shared sense of humor b/t he & Jillian. IMO, passing gas during the filming of this show is not unlike letting one squeak out with your family -- all of these guys lived together like little boys at camp, and crew becomes easy to forget, particularly in group situations (I imagine in group situations, the participants don't think the cameras are trained on them individually).

    As for showing Ed to be competitive in a bad way, I just never saw that. 2 "competitive" scenes I can think of: 1) Ed calling Wes & Dave "bad guys" and 2) snapping at Robby.

    IMO, calling Wes & Dave "bad guys" was part of Ed's narrative of Jillian's bigger story. The way the produced story plays out (not necessarily real life), Wes & Dave are "bad guys." (and I posted something last week about Ed being a significant narrator of the larger story, I'll try to find it and re-post it)

    Snapping at Robby -- I think that was intended to show that Ed really liked Jillian. Before snapping at Robby, Ed was talking about how he usually doesn't open up very easily, finds Jillian very easy to talk to, says he really likes her. Then, IMO, Robby is the one who popped off by saying "If Ed can get a rose, Jesse can certainly get a rose." Ed says, "What's that supposed to mean?" and made big-eyes at Robby. I dunno, if I put myself in Ed's shoes, that was a total put-down from Robby b/c it sounds like: Ed is lame and he got a rose, but Jesse is cool so that's a no-brainer! So I thought Ed was kinda hurt and just going, "Yeah, thanks for that, buddy." Ed went on to say something about just having a lot on his mind, was passively (if not actively) apologetic.

    For me, if I disregard everything I've heard away from my TV, Ed hasn't really gotten a bad edit at all. The e.d. thing is very very easy to rectify, it was just there to cast doubt. The one thing I thought was OTT was all of Ed's yap-yap about Jillian being so "HOTT!" As I watched it, I thought, "Alright Ed, simmer down, tiger! You think Jill's hott, as well you should if you're into her. Got it. Back off on that now, b/c you're starting to sound like Dave." Personally, I think all of those "hotts" were intended as build-up for the e.d. thing to be as big of an OMG Moment as possible. That was a mistake on the part of TPTB -- 2 "hotts" would've sufficed but by including more, they made Ed look like he totally objectifies women. Most women (their viewers) Do Not Like That. Instead of simply casting doubt, they made many viewers shake their heads or worse.

    All this JMO.
    Last edited by victoria; 07-26-2009 at 10:38 PM.
    "A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five." -Groucho Marx

  4. #2964
    FORT Fanatic victoria's Avatar
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    JBF, here's my post from last week.

    Quote Originally Posted by victoria;3599609;
    I agree with your whole post, seeker. Totally.

    While I totally agree, I guess I also apply what you've said a little differently. Absolutely, Kip's edit is clean as a whistle, he's stayed completely above the fray and everything we've seen of Kiptyn makes him a very acceptable (at WORST, to the audience), if not ideal, F1.

    I also agree that Reid has been one of the main narrators, although I think others have been as well. Reid even narrated early on that Ed shouldn't be overlooked (Ed's a cool guy, if he gets in the mansion, he's a threat), while other guys were talking about Ed not being adventurous.

    From an editing standpoint, I think it's interesting that Ed was put a little more front & center in picking out who's not right for Jillian, making Ed a little more controversial. Also that we've seen Ed talking about Jillian knowing what she wants and trusting Jillian's choices. Before he left, he also said he knew there were guys there that Jillian could like more as she got to know them. As time has ticked on, and especially very recently, I feel like the story TPTB are showing is confirming Ed's overall take on things -- as if Ed knew what was up, knew and understood Jillian quite well.

    I know no more than any casual viewer, but I think I watch the show more carefully than they do. It's my opinion, and only my opinion, that if Jillian picks anyone, it's one of F2. Kiptyn b/c it's a straightforward love story or Ed b/c they've cleared some hurdles and all along he was the guy who really "got" Jillian. I can't quite figure out the editing if Reid is F1 b/c I basically can't believe he's not part of F2.

    Can't wait to find out who she picks! I like the TV versions of all of the F3 and I just hope the REAL version of whomever she chose is good for her.
    "A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five." -Groucho Marx

  5. #2965
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by victoria;3615504;
    Bringing this over from another thread since it pertains to editing and hoping Jack Benny Fan sees it here.

    My thoughts on Ed's edit, as I see it. I know it comes off as a head-scratcher, but I feel like that clip of Ed drunk in Vancouver was intended by TPTB to be endearing. Clearly, it went over like a lead balloon with the lion's share of FoRT viewers. The passing of gas during the RC? It was tucked in with Michael Stags (very well-liked by viewers) "tooting" as well, plus Jillian telling CH that she thinks the finger-pulling gag is funny. These were intended (whether it worked or not) to humanize Ed, make him likable, display a shared sense of humor b/t he & Jillian. IMO, passing gas during the filming of this show is not unlike letting one squeak out with your family -- all of these guys lived together like little boys at camp, and crew becomes easy to forget, particularly in group situations (I imagine in group situations, the participants don't think the cameras are trained on them individually).

    As for showing Ed to be competitive in a bad way, I just never saw that. 2 "competitive" scenes I can think of: 1) Ed calling Wes & Dave "bad guys" and 2) snapping at Robby.

    IMO, calling Wes & Dave "bad guys" was part of Ed's narrative of Jillian's bigger story. The way the produced story plays out (not necessarily real life), Wes & Dave are "bad guys." (and I posted something last week about Ed being a significant narrator of the larger story, I'll try to find it and re-post it)

    Snapping at Robby -- I think that was intended to show that Ed really liked Jillian. Before snapping at Robby, Ed was talking about how he usually doesn't open up very easily, finds Jillian very easy to talk to, says he really likes her. Then, IMO, Robby is the one who popped off by saying "If Ed can get a rose, Jesse can certainly get a rose." Ed says, "What's that supposed to mean?" and made big-eyes at Robby. I dunno, if I put myself in Ed's shoes, that was a total put-down from Robby b/c it sounds like: Ed is lame and he got a rose, but Jesse is cool so that's a no-brainer! So I thought Ed was kinda hurt and just going, "Yeah, thanks for that, buddy." Ed went on to say something about just having a lot on his mind, was passively (if not actively) apologetic.

    For me, if I disregard everything I've heard away from my TV, Ed hasn't really gotten a bad edit at all. The e.d. thing is very very easy to rectify, it was just there to cast doubt. The one thing I thought was OTT was all of Ed's yap-yap about Jillian being so "HOTT!" As I watched it, I thought, "Alright Ed, simmer down, tiger! You think Jill's hott, as well you should if you're into her. Got it. Back off on that now, b/c you're starting to sound like Dave." Personally, I think all of those "hotts" were intended as build-up for the e.d. thing to be as big of an OMG Moment as possible. That was a mistake on the part of TPTB -- 2 "hotts" would've sufficed but by including more, they made Ed look like he totally objectifies women. Most women (their viewers) Do Not Like That. Instead of simply casting doubt, they made many viewers shake their heads or worse.

    All this JMO.
    Very interesting analysis. She has stated that he's too reserved at times... the hula dance with her dad was a way of "loosening" him up. Maybe the drunk scene was supposed to make him funnier? What bugged me about that clip (personally) was that he appeared to not care about her in that scene. The way he lifted her was very awkward.

    Robby & Ed... never paid enough attention to that scene. It is interesting to compare Rob's relationship with both Ed and Reid. Actually, Reid was just disappointed he didn't get a group rose at episode #3's movie wrap up party, but wasn't upset at Robby personally. In Whistler (ep #5), he objectively viewed the relationship between Jillian and Robby as strictly "friends". (He wasn't involved in the "ratting Rob" fun, since he and Mark had snowmobiled into a ditch at the time.)

    I saw Ed's fart video... it wasn't THAT bad. I guess she likes that kind of humor.

    Alas, there is so much I don't understand about the JED relationship... but it is EDITED TV! Maybe seeing Ed with her on AFRC will give me a better perspective. (I keep hoping, despite the leaks, Reid is still the final one... but I'm preparing myself.)

    I felt bad for him with the "every man's worst nightmare" edit. I agree completely with your analysis about his "hot" statements as a build up. What was really bad about it was that intimacy was NOT the problem... just exhaustion and sunburn. Of course, it HAD to be an "OMG Moment" on the motherboard.

    Note that they also included the following "OMG Moments" at abc.com: Reid saying he loved her in the limo and her not knowing it and Ed saying "I love you" in his video message. The fact that these two clips were together was interesting. It makes me THINK (or rather fools me into thinking, like a kindergartener stepping into a stranger's car with the promise of candy) that the finale will pan out the way I want it to, but it may just be a big Come On to nothing.

    Wait until tomorrow night. Nobody is 100% certain of the outcome. I'm OK if the overall prediction on this forum is correct. However, I will probably not attempt to do any "edit analysis" again, since ALL RULES were thrown out the window this season. Sticking to "Survivor" and other shows next season.

  6. #2966
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Phyllie;3615164;
    Not to mention all of that stuff in Chris Harrison's blog about Reid not making the same mistake again, and how he'll learn from not making the leap sooner, blah blah blah.
    CH and his usual baloney. We all know Jillian was never going to pick Reid now.

  7. #2967
    FORT Fogey Phyllie's Avatar
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Benny Fan;3615639;
    Robby & Ed... never paid enough attention to that scene. It is interesting to compare Rob's relationship with both Ed and Reid. Actually, Reid was just disappointed he didn't get a group rose at episode #3's movie wrap up party, but wasn't upset at Robby personally. In Whistler (ep #5), he objectively viewed the relationship between Jillian and Robby as strictly "friends". (He wasn't involved in the "ratting Rob" fun, since he and Mark had snowmobiled into a ditch at the time.)
    That's most likely your problem Jack Benny Fan. When you study the edit, you have to carefully analyze all the characters not just the scenes and interactions that pertain to the one you perceive to be the one. If you watch in a vacuum you can make a case for any of the top three or four.

    You have to look at all the top choices, watch their facial expressions and interactions and try to discount the PI's and voiceovers because they can be misleading.

    I took an advertising class once that blew my mind. They proved that by placing key pictures on billboards and signs along the path of a car traveling to a meeting they could control the creative process of the artists. It's really crazy what imagery can do if you are not suspicious of every thing they present.

  8. #2968
    FORT Fogey Phyllie's Avatar
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by seeker;3615659;
    CH and his usual baloney. We all know Jillian was never going to pick Reid now.
    No, but when they make him the next bachelor, he make better choices. That was my point. The statement wasn't about Jillian, but Reids potential next journey.

  9. #2969
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Phyllie;3615668;
    That's most likely your problem Jack Benny Fan. When you study the edit, you have to carefully analyze all the characters not just the scenes and interactions that pertain to the one you perceive to be the one. If you watch in a vacuum you can make a case for any of the top three or four.

    You have to look at all the top choices, watch their facial expressions and interactions and try to discount the PI's and voiceovers because they can be misleading.

    I took an advertising class once that blew my mind. They proved that by placing key pictures on billboards and signs along the path of a car traveling to a meeting they could control the creative process of the artists. It's really crazy what imagery can do if you are not suspicious of every thing they present.
    Agree... lots of visual and audio manipulation, just as in commercials. Also, voice overs are easily chopped and diced. Personal interviews "time travel" a lot. Body language is always important; Ed and Jillian often look uncomfortable together, but that could just be stage fright or hiding their lust from the cameras? Maybe the reason Ed had trouble looking at her is not due to the reasons we think.

    I haven't stayed focused on just one character on this show, but I am guilty for sometimes viewing one's scenes (i.e. Reid) more often than others. I do have a good understanding of Kiptyn.

    Again, we'll wait until tomorrow night... see how it all pans out. Earlier in the season, there was an Amazing Race date involving Wes' dinner date. Maybe the ending will be like AR, with Reid failing to come back in time or Ed "stepping it up a notch" as he says and winning her heart? I don't know... too burnt this weekend to analyze anymore.

  10. #2970
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Benny Fan;3615639;
    Very interesting analysis. She has stated that he's too reserved at times... the hula dance with her dad was a way of "loosening" him up. Maybe the drunk scene was supposed to make him funnier? What bugged me about that clip (personally) was that he appeared to not care about her in that scene. The way he lifted her was very awkward.

    Robby & Ed... never paid enough attention to that scene. It is interesting to compare Rob's relationship with both Ed and Reid. Actually, Reid was just disappointed he didn't get a group rose at episode #3's movie wrap up party, but wasn't upset at Robby personally. In Whistler (ep #5), he objectively viewed the relationship between Jillian and Robby as strictly "friends". (He wasn't involved in the "ratting Rob" fun, since he and Mark had snowmobiled into a ditch at the time.)

    I saw Ed's fart video... it wasn't THAT bad. I guess she likes that kind of humor.

    Alas, there is so much I don't understand about the JED relationship... but it is EDITED TV! Maybe seeing Ed with her on AFRC will give me a better perspective. (I keep hoping, despite the leaks, Reid is still the final one... but I'm preparing myself.)

    I felt bad for him with the "every man's worst nightmare" edit. I agree completely with your analysis about his "hot" statements as a build up. What was really bad about it was that intimacy was NOT the problem... just exhaustion and sunburn. Of course, it HAD to be an "OMG Moment" on the motherboard.

    Note that they also included the following "OMG Moments" at abc.com: Reid saying he loved her in the limo and her not knowing it and Ed saying "I love you" in his video message. The fact that these two clips were together was interesting. It makes me THINK (or rather fools me into thinking, like a kindergartener stepping into a stranger's car with the promise of candy) that the finale will pan out the way I want it to, but it may just be a big Come On to nothing.

    Wait until tomorrow night. Nobody is 100% certain of the outcome. I'm OK if the overall prediction on this forum is correct. However, I will probably not attempt to do any "edit analysis" again, since ALL RULES were thrown out the window this season. Sticking to "Survivor" and other shows next season.
    I agree JBFan! What's the point in sleuthing if there are no rules in the first place. To add to it there is no logic to back the edit. sdl's post about the "friggin' disaster" season makes absolute sense. The producers confusion is evident in the edit on hindsight. One thing for sure, this is the worse edit an f1 has ever received on this show and I have watched since season 1. Gone are the days of a chance at romance. It's now down to tacky stunts, crass behavior like they have on cable shows. The decency line has been crossed on a few occasions this season. I will follow Reid and Kip one last time on the boards. Enough is enough! The best way to make a statement to the producers is to not watch the finale. They will get the message when they lose ratings. If tomorrow's ratings are high, they will escalate this nonsense to a higher level next time.JMO!

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