Thread: Edit Analysis

  1. #2911
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by 2observe;3609915 View Post
    But the thing is Ed's leaving related to Jillian realizing HER true feelings about Ed. With Reid's it's about him realizing HIS true feelings for her.
    With Ed, it's about HER feelings and with Reid it's about HIS feelings, and imo this is what makes Ed F1.
    Great thought

  2. #2912
    FORT Regular riano27's Avatar
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloomers;3611302;

    1. Timing - We didn't see that 1-1 interaction at the Meet and Greet. Now we didn't see it with Melissa either, but we saw an immediate 1-1 date and that first edited question to be resolved on the very second episode.

    2. It has come to our attention that the lead sits down with the producers and works out the dates. In the last few seasons, the top contenders get those early 1-1 dates. When Reid didn't get one until the 6th episode, I went into high suspicion mode. What I do think happened is that with the preview we saw and that extremely early date, Jake was originally supposed to perhaps be F3. He got the same concert date at the same time that Jillian did; however, I don't think they personally geehawed - or maybe she didn't geehaw with him?

    When that happened, Reid entered the picture in Jake's place.
    Because he didn't get one of those early dates, I think she simply didn't request it. I do think she "warmed" up to him, and I do think she came to care an awfully lot about him, but she had to work awfully hard for it.

    From the edit, I don't think Reid was one of the top contenders from the start.
    I JUST don't see how the timing of a 1-1 is a make-or-break deal. No one ever gets more than one 1-1 date so what does it truly matter if he gets his first or last? Obviously the first few dates of the show Jillian goes with who she is initially attracted to (Kip, Jake, Ed, whoever) but to me that's a given and I'm not denying she was attracted to those guys. In my mind though it's almost better to have a later 1-1 date when you actually get to know the person better as opposed when you first meet them. Or am I the only one who thinks that way?

  3. #2913
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloomers;3611302;
    Fleissed, spliced, and diced, huh? He's a tricky , isn't he!

    If you got taken in, join the crowd because you are in with a long list of even the very best old timers on this board including myself who have been seduced at one time or the other. Even though I knew from the stats that Ed was F1, I suspected Fleiss was going for the shocking ending which would have been for Reid to pull the rug out from under the 2 who had been on the parents' meetings and LCDs. He seems to want to top each previous season with a more shocking dramatic ending.

    Regardless of the pictures and what looked like the perfect compatibility ( oh! those wonderful F3s), here is what I kept saying was the problem:

    1. Timing - We didn't see that 1-1 interaction at the Meet and Greet. Now we didn't see it with Melissa either, but we saw an immediate 1-1 date and that first edited question to be resolved on the very second episode.

    2. It has come to our attention that the lead sits down with the producers and works out the dates. In the last few seasons, the top contenders get those early 1-1 dates. When Reid didn't get one until the 6th episode, I went into high suspicion mode. What I do think happened is that with the preview we saw and that extremely early date, Jake was originally supposed to perhaps be F3. He got the same concert date at the same time that Jillian did; however, I don't think they personally geehawed - or maybe she didn't geehaw with him?

    When that happened, Reid entered the picture in Jake's place.
    Because he didn't get one of those early dates, I think she simply didn't request it. I do think she "warmed" up to him, and I do think she came to care an awfully lot about him, but she had to work awfully hard for it.

    From the edit, I don't think Reid was one of the top contenders from the start.

    What is coming out from CH is that Reid requested to go back and try again for Jillian. I myself thought that was producer generated or scripted.

    When I look back at this in retrospect, Reid's edit in many ways reminds me of Amanda's on Matt's season:

    Remember that we loved the warm, humorous, quirky (meeps!!) Amanda.

    1. We saw all kinds of screencaps where she and Matt were sitting besides each other having 1-1 time.
    2. We saw him seek her out for 1-1 conversation.
    3. They got on like a house on fire. They shared an awesome sense of humor.
    4. They had that wonderful 50s date.
    5. She got a tremendous edit which made us fall in love with her.
    6. Finally....watch this one!!!!! Floating around here somewhere is a screencap of Amanda ( that we never saw in the actual edit) where she is dancing on the beach on her fantasy date very much like the segment of Reid dancing the hula on his fantasy date.

    One other thing....I want to give a shoutout to Jack Benny who did an awesome, incredible analysis job. This is a tribute to your skills.
    I agree about the dates, I definitely thought she had a hand in picking who was 1st, 2n d etc but I think also she was taken aback by her connections and feelings for Reid. She just wasn't comfortable enough to accept it and go with her guts. I have no doubt that she fell for the guy but couldn't understand what was happening to her.

  4. #2914
    FORT Fogey atem's Avatar
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by atlMD;3611615;
    I agree about the dates, I definitely thought she had a hand in picking who was 1st, 2n d etc but I think also she was taken aback by her connections and feelings for Reid. She just wasn't comfortable enough to accept it and go with her guts. I have no doubt that she fell for the guy but couldn't understand what was happening to her.
    I agree with that. I don't think she expected it with Reid at all. He's totally non-country and totally city.

  5. #2915
    ms_kreddy
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Living;3611378;

    F! always gets a 1 on 1 at the MG.
    F1 always gets one of the first 3-4 dates
    F1 is ambigous, we see them in every episode, but are not really the centre or focus.
    F2 is the focus of many sc's and episodes,
    F2 has sizzling chemistry with tb/ette
    F3 is girl/boy next door type.
    F3 is your best friend type
    F3 gets on amazingly well with tb/ette
    F3 is the one you want to love - sweet (quite inocent etc).
    This should be posted permenantly somewhere for future reference. It seems spot on to me.

  6. #2916
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Living;3611378;
    The edit of this season I found to be spot on for classic tb. It was so simple and easy this season. From the editing anaylsis and sc's we were able to know that Ed was F1, though I do not have a source, nor inside knowledge, and not even in the us. some (not all) old timers got side tracked as in Melissa's season from posters who claimed to have a source when all the info was pointing to Molly as F1, Melissa as F2. As in Ed as F1 and Kip as F2.

    F! always gets a 1 on 1 at the MG.
    F1 always gets one of the first 3-4 dates
    F1 is ambigous, we see them in every episode, but are not really the centre or focus.
    F2 is the focus of many sc's and episodes,
    F2 has sizzling chemistry with tb/ette
    F3 is girl/boy next door type.
    F3 is your best friend type
    F3 gets on amazingly well with tb/ette
    F3 is the one you want to love - sweet (quite inocent etc).

    The list goes on. but, unless tptb change the format, this is the basic plot. Up until now, we get sidetracked from editing by suspect sources who may know irrelevant things and eveyone follows them taking their opionions as facts.

    Enough ranting. It iis not Jillian's fault. Not even tptb. tptb just played for us. Followed our likes and dislikes and played up to it. Jillian, just wants to be happy. she may not get the perfect guy (which of us has the perfect guy?, but she wants to be with this one. We need to be happy for her.
    Great job and agreed

    Boy meets girl
    Boy loses girl
    Boy gets girl

    Classic hollywood!

    Given the track record of these relationships, ironically I think hers with Ed could last longer than hers with either Kip or Reid. I do believe they have more in common. I do not see this as forever though...

  7. #2917
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloomers;3611302;
    Fleissed, spliced, and diced, huh? He's a tricky , isn't he!

    If you got taken in, join the crowd because you are in with a long list of even the very best old timers on this board including myself who have been seduced at one time or the other. Even though I knew from the stats that Ed was F1, I suspected Fleiss was going for the shocking ending which would have been for Reid to pull the rug out from under the 2 who had been on the parents' meetings and LCDs. He seems to want to top each previous season with a more shocking dramatic ending.

    Regardless of the pictures and what looked like the perfect compatibility ( oh! those wonderful F3s), here is what I kept saying was the problem:

    1. Timing - We didn't see that 1-1 interaction at the Meet and Greet. Now we didn't see it with Melissa either, but we saw an immediate 1-1 date and that first edited question to be resolved on the very second episode.

    2. It has come to our attention that the lead sits down with the producers and works out the dates. In the last few seasons, the top contenders get those early 1-1 dates. When Reid didn't get one until the 6th episode, I went into high suspicion mode. What I do think happened is that with the preview we saw and that extremely early date, Jake was originally supposed to perhaps be F3. He got the same concert date at the same time that Jillian did; however, I don't think they personally geehawed - or maybe she didn't geehaw with him?

    When that happened, Reid entered the picture in Jake's place.
    Because he didn't get one of those early dates, I think she simply didn't request it. I do think she "warmed" up to him, and I do think she came to care an awfully lot about him, but she had to work awfully hard for it.

    From the edit, I don't think Reid was one of the top contenders from the start.

    What is coming out from CH is that Reid requested to go back and try again for Jillian. I myself thought that was producer generated or scripted.

    When I look back at this in retrospect, Reid's edit in many ways reminds me of Amanda's on Matt's season:

    Remember that we loved the warm, humorous, quirky (meeps!!) Amanda.

    1. We saw all kinds of screencaps where she and Matt were sitting besides each other having 1-1 time.
    2. We saw him seek her out for 1-1 conversation.
    3. They got on like a house on fire. They shared an awesome sense of humor.
    4. They had that wonderful 50s date.
    5. She got a tremendous edit which made us fall in love with her.
    6. Finally....watch this one!!!!! Floating around here somewhere is a screencap of Amanda ( that we never saw in the actual edit) where she is dancing on the beach on her fantasy date very much like the segment of Reid dancing the hula on his fantasy date.

    One other thing....I want to give a shoutout to Jack Benny who did an awesome, incredible analysis job. This is a tribute to your skills.
    My memories of Matt and Amanda are faint... some seasons like Andrew Firestone and Jesse Palmer I remember better. I do better analyzing the "ettes"... seeing Trista's season several times and remembering parts of Meredith's quite well too.

    OK... we all have to speculate. The truth lies somewhere in-between all of our contrasting theories. Going back over all of our posts and using prime pieces of each, we may be able to construct what really is going on here Fleiss edit-wise.

    In interviews, Jillian said there were six front-runners at the first rose ceremony. Reid was one of these. The theory of Jake being F3 initially is a very good one... she probably perceived him, Jesse and Reid as equal contenders at the beginning. Maybe Jake was the one she felt a slightly stronger physical attraction to, but the date they had may have been more awkward than she expected.

    From an editing stand point, episode #2 was the first to "introduce" Reid with the infamous "match made in heaven" speech (which I believe was included shortly before airing... things were just being finalized in Hawaii). Episode #3 was the first to showcase him in full glory. That morning (June 1) on Regis/Kelly, the western movie clip showed his kissing scene and his name was mentioned twice. Although the commercials spotlighted Ed's Amazing Race date, at least one included the "cut" shot of her kissing Reid at the wrap up party. Subconsciously, the producers were making us notice him. The average viewer wouldn't notice, but the serious fan would.

    The incident that may have kicked off the RJ connection was the wrap up party for the western movie shoot. He had a good discussion with her (and an edited kiss), but she gave the group rose to Robby. (In episode #5, he finally PIs that Robby is just a "friend" and he didn't feel threatened... it took time for him to get over that one.) Supposedly, Reid got the first rose in ceremony #3. However, an editing trick shows him getting the second, while JAKE (who was 2nd) is shown getting the first. (Cue in your thoughts above.).Was this because she was becoming attached to Reid? OR was this JUST to boost his confidence? The next four ceremonies had Reid getting either the first or 1 on 1 rose.

    There is no question that the Lake Louise date established Reid as F1. Kiptyn was still high on the radar and she was still friendly with Wes, but there were distinct differences in her intimacy with all three. Ed was gone and when he came back, she may have started thinking of him as an alternative, but we all can see that she pretty much BSed her visit with his parents in Maui. Complete contrast to the Philly hometown in which she literally submerged into that family. The hometown was interesting on two levels: 1.) it SOLD Reid's family to the Harris clan watching the show unfold as we are and 2.) we saw how Jillian learned about Reid's cautiousness and may now have a better idea why she tentatively eliminated him in Maui... a combination of her testing their relationship and producer-influenced "twisting" for the season.

    It is interesting to compare episode #3 and its subconscious "unveiling" of Reid with the operating method employed this week. Reid appeared as the "surprise" in the MTA preview. Although the TV ads mention a returning bachelor, viewers who missed MTA won't know he's Reid. However, Chris Harrison's interview on 7/23 reminded us of the preview and went into more detail than usual regarding Reid's return. This is all "cat-and-mouse": the producers are revealing some stuff to those seriously interested, but keeping it hidden to the "general" masses.

    About Reid's hula dance... REALLY GOOD POINT here. Again, subconscious programming. When it was shown on "Men Tell All", Jillian said it "won me over", which many of us here thought was a strange comment to describe somebody dumped in the same episode. (This clip was proceeded by Ed's drunk scene, Mark's snow fight featuring the exact same music used with Reid's snowboarding and Robby's departure and was followed by Kiptyn's charity work.)

    Now, by "planned coincidence", a preview was put online from the finale spotlighting Ed's hula dance with her dad. Jillian compliments him for "loosening up" and, while there's nothing especially "bad" with the clip, you can feel a radically different vibe here. It is as if they are showing how the guy she gave a rose to is not doing as well as the one she eliminated.

    More subconscious conditioning...
    The beginning recap scenes on "Men Tell All" are VERY revealing to those willing to re-watch them. These are the very first clips we see on the program BEFORE any Dave/Juan/Jake/Wes/Jason-Molly/stage discussions preview footage. The following quotes are as follows...

    CH: Jillian finally learned to trust Kiptyn.
    Jillian to Kip: From day one I totally adored you...

    CH: Reid wasn't ready to commit.
    Jillian to Reid: I really want you to think if you're ready to propose at the end of this...
    Reid: Maybe.

    CH: Ed had trouble in the Fantasy Suite.
    Ed: Very nervous. It just didn't happen.

    CH: And at the rose ceremony, Jillian made a decision that broke her heart.
    Cue in clip of Reid being in love with her and her not knowing...

  8. #2918
    FORT Fogey Phyllie's Avatar
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by ms_kreddy;3611635;
    This should be posted permenantly somewhere for future reference. It seems spot on to me.
    Not to mention that though Fliess tries to change up the storyline, his basic forumla is the same. Many final 3 fans have been fooled. If you have to justify your favorite winning by finding clues, and talking endlessly about the "hidden" great passion then your person probably isn't winning.

    F1 filled with conflicts
    F2 filled with great passion
    F3 filled with innuendo that suggests there is more than there is

    It's the only way they keep the suspense going through the whole season.

  9. #2919
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Benny Fan;3611902;
    My memories of Matt and Amanda are faint... some seasons like Andrew Firestone and Jesse Palmer I remember better. I do better analyzing the "ettes"... seeing Trista's season several times and remembering parts of Meredith's quite well too.

    OK... we all have to speculate. The truth lies somewhere in-between all of our contrasting theories. Going back over all of our posts and using prime pieces of each, we may be able to construct what really is going on here Fleiss edit-wise.

    In interviews, Jillian said there were six front-runners at the first rose ceremony. Reid was one of these. The theory of Jake being F3 initially is a very good one... she probably perceived him, Jesse and Reid as equal contenders at the beginning. Maybe Jake was the one she felt a slightly stronger physical attraction to, but the date they had may have been more awkward than she expected.

    From an editing stand point, episode #2 was the first to "introduce" Reid with the infamous "match made in heaven" speech (which I believe was included shortly before airing... things were just being finalized in Hawaii). Episode #3 was the first to showcase him in full glory. That morning (June 1) on Regis/Kelly, the western movie clip showed his kissing scene and his name was mentioned twice. Although the commercials spotlighted Ed's Amazing Race date, at least one included the "cut" shot of her kissing Reid at the wrap up party. Subconsciously, the producers were making us notice him. The average viewer wouldn't notice, but the serious fan would.

    The incident that may have kicked off the RJ connection was the wrap up party for the western movie shoot. He had a good discussion with her (and an edited kiss), but she gave the group rose to Robby. (In episode #5, he finally PIs that Robby is just a "friend" and he didn't feel threatened... it took time for him to get over that one.) Supposedly, Reid got the first rose in ceremony #3. However, an editing trick shows him getting the second, while JAKE (who was 2nd) is shown getting the first. (Cue in your thoughts above.).Was this because she was becoming attached to Reid? OR was this JUST to boost his confidence? The next four ceremonies had Reid getting either the first or 1 on 1 rose.

    There is no question that the Lake Louise date established Reid as F1. Kiptyn was still high on the radar and she was still friendly with Wes, but there were distinct differences in her intimacy with all three. Ed was gone and when he came back, she may have started thinking of him as an alternative, but we all can see that she pretty much BSed her visit with his parents in Maui. Complete contrast to the Philly hometown in which she literally submerged into that family. The hometown was interesting on two levels: 1.) it SOLD Reid's family to the Harris clan watching the show unfold as we are and 2.) we saw how Jillian learned about Reid's cautiousness and may now have a better idea why she tentatively eliminated him in Maui... a combination of her testing their relationship and producer-influenced "twisting" for the season.

    It is interesting to compare episode #3 and its subconscious "unveiling" of Reid with the operating method employed this week. Reid appeared as the "surprise" in the MTA preview. Although the TV ads mention a returning bachelor, viewers who missed MTA won't know he's Reid. However, Chris Harrison's interview on 7/23 reminded us of the preview and went into more detail than usual regarding Reid's return. This is all "cat-and-mouse": the producers are revealing some stuff to those seriously interested, but keeping it hidden to the "general" masses.

    About Reid's hula dance... REALLY GOOD POINT here. Again, subconscious programming. When it was shown on "Men Tell All", Jillian said it "won me over", which many of us here thought was a strange comment to describe somebody dumped in the same episode. (This clip was proceeded by Ed's drunk scene, Mark's snow fight featuring the exact same music used with Reid's snowboarding and Robby's departure and was followed by Kiptyn's charity work.)

    Now, by "planned coincidence", a preview was put online from the finale spotlighting Ed's hula dance with her dad. Jillian compliments him for "loosening up" and, while there's nothing especially "bad" with the clip, you can feel a radically different vibe here. It is as if they are showing how the guy she gave a rose to is not doing as well as the one she eliminated.

    More subconscious conditioning...
    The beginning recap scenes on "Men Tell All" are VERY revealing to those willing to re-watch them. These are the very first clips we see on the program BEFORE any Dave/Juan/Jake/Wes/Jason-Molly/stage discussions preview footage. The following quotes are as follows...

    CH: Jillian finally learned to trust Kiptyn.
    Jillian to Kip: From day one I totally adored you...

    CH: Reid wasn't ready to commit.
    Jillian to Reid: I really want you to think if you're ready to propose at the end of this...
    Reid: Maybe.

    CH: Ed had trouble in the Fantasy Suite.
    Ed: Very nervous. It just didn't happen.

    CH: And at the rose ceremony, Jillian made a decision that broke her heart.
    Cue in clip of Reid being in love with her and her not knowing...
    How awkward was it at the ATFRC taping with Kip and Reid? Reid's foreshadowing in Spain during dinner comes to mind based on what we know about the outcome. Someone may say something to you even if they are not honest and you will go for it. How honest was Ed with Jillian about his real life in Chicago esp. during the hiatus? I hope she realizes at some point that to get a different outcome (not choosing bad boys) one must first makes different choices. If the media exposes Ed's antics in Chicago more people will feel sorry for her for getting hoodwinked by Ed than happy for them. Sad indeed!

    Just curious! Does the primary of the show get paid extra bonus for keeping the engagement on for six months after the show has aired? Given all other payments they get anything is possible.

  10. #2920
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    Re: Edit Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by seeker;3611962;
    How awkward was it at the ATFRC taping with Kip and Reid? Reid's foreshadowing in Spain during dinner comes to mind based on what we know about the outcome. Someone may say something to you even if they are not honest and you will go for it. How honest was Ed with Jillian about his real life in Chicago esp. during the hiatus? I hope she realizes at some point that to get a different outcome (not choosing bad boys) one must first makes different choices. If the media exposes Ed's antics in Chicago more people will feel sorry for her for getting hoodwinked by Ed than happy for them. Sad indeed!

    Just curious! Does the primary of the show get paid extra bonus for keeping the engagement on for six months after the show has aired? Given all other payments they get anything is possible.
    Are we really 100% of the outcome? Mind you, I'm only just starting to check through media spoilers...

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