Bachelorette 5 Thoughts and Comments

[Silver18]

I respect your opinion, but I have to completely disagree with you because that's not narcissism defined. What you're talking about is whether a person has an internal or external locus of control. Internal = They think they are largely the cause of their own fate. External = They think forces beyond their control are largely responsible for their fate. This has to do with how people view the world and themselves, and is tied to self esteem. Not narcissism at all. Unfortunately, narcissism has been warped by society into a word that people thinks means something it does not mean. Narcissism is defined as having 5 or more of the following traits:

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is special and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7. lacks empathy and is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
8. is often envious of others, or believes others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

That's what narcissism (specifically, Narcissistic [Personality Disorder]) actually means according to the DSM, and I definitely don't think this applies to Reid. Seems like he just has an internal locus of control, to me. Who knows, may not, may just have said what he did because Jillian essentially said it was his own doing he went home.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm giving a class on all this; just an area I've studied in college and graduate school repeatedly, so I felt compelled to respond.

Thank-you - I am glad you shared your knowledge!

[Alanna]

So exactly what was the point of that "shirt" she had on when she changed into something more comfortable with Ed? She had on nothing underneath it and it was cut down to her navel. I could swear that there was a wardrobe malfunction a couple of times...

Here's what I think happened. Ed and Jilly got to the FS, started making out and Jilly just wasn't feeling it. She gives the tearful PI about how there's no chemistry, he's tired, sunburned, ect. She's not talking about him not being able to get it up because although I'm not an Ed fan, I'm a fan of Jill's and don't think she's quite that dumb to go down that road. She's talking about him not being attentive or open enough with her. At least that's what I gathered from the whole thing.

They're both sunburned, not feeling well, some quick thinking crew member encourages her to put on the nightie and bikini bottoms. Again, why? Are they going in a pool? No. Someone told her to do it otherwise she would have put on a pair of panties or likely nothing. When most women are about to get it on, their first thought is not a skimpy nightie and a bikini bottom. She rubs aloe all over him, he rubs it all over her, they go to bed. End of story.

I really doubt it was ED and he couldn't get it up. Maybe it was but I just don't see Jillian being that classless and dumb.

[victoria]

I respect your opinion, but I have to completely disagree with you because that's not narcissism defined. What you're talking about is whether a person has an internal or external locus of control. Internal = They think they are largely the cause of their own fate. External = They think forces beyond their control are largely responsible for their fate. This has to do with how people view the world and themselves, and is tied to self esteem. Not narcissism at all. Unfortunately, narcissism has been warped by society into a word that people thinks means something it does not mean. Narcissism is defined as having 5 or more of the following traits:

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is special and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7. lacks empathy and is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
8. is often envious of others, or believes others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

That's what narcissism (specifically, Narcissistic [Personality Disorder]) actually means according to the DSM, and I definitely don't think this applies to Reid. Seems like he just has an internal locus of control, to me. Who knows, may not, may just have said what he did because Jillian essentially said it was his own doing he went home.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm giving a class on all this; just an area I've studied in college and graduate school repeatedly, so I felt compelled to respond.

Oh, my...it's getting so late, and it seems I might have rapped at a hornet's nest, and I really need to get off to bed. Thank you, genuinely, VAgirl, for the list of Narcissistic Personality Disorder traits. Please please understand that I wasn't attempting to diagnose ANYONE with that specific personality disorder, I was just saying that there ARE viewpoints/perceptions which are consistent with narcissistic tendencies. In general, thinking that outcomes depend solely on yourself (your own actions, words, deeds), would be a narcissistic TENDENCY. It takes a lot to qualify for the disorder, you provided the list -- I don't think I smacked the label on anyone. I just noted a tendency. It may mean nothing to you. It makes a dent with me. I don't have enough info to come to a conclusion, I doubt I ever will, but I can't ignore it. I notice little things. I can't help it.

[cheekychook]

I respect your opinion, but I have to completely disagree with you because that's not narcissism defined. What you're talking about is whether a person has an internal or external locus of control. Internal = They think they are largely the cause of their own fate. External = They think forces beyond their control are largely responsible for their fate. This has to do with how people view the world and themselves, and is tied to self esteem. Not narcissism at all. Unfortunately, narcissism has been warped by society into a word that people thinks means something it does not mean. Narcissism is defined as having 5 or more of the following traits:

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is special and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7. lacks empathy and is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
8. is often envious of others, or believes others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

That's what narcissism (specifically, Narcissistic [Personality Disorder]) actually means according to the DSM, and I definitely don't think this applies to Reid. Seems like he just has an internal locus of control, to me. Who knows, may not, may just have said what he did because Jillian essentially said it was his own doing he went home.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm giving a class on all this; just an area I've studied in college and graduate school repeatedly, so I felt compelled to respond.

Thank you so much---I really didn't feel like digging out my old DSM (Diagnostic and Statistic Manual of Mental Disorders). You just saved me the trouble!

[cheekychook]

Oh, my...it's getting so late, and it seems I might have rapped at a hornet's nest, and I really need to get off to bed. Thank you, genuinely, VAgirl, for the list of Narcissistic Personality Disorder traits. Please please understand that I wasn't attempting to diagnose ANYONE with that specific personality disorder, I was just saying that there ARE viewpoints/perceptions which are consistent with narcissistic tendencies. In general, thinking that outcomes depend solely on yourself (your own actions, words, deeds), would be a narcissistic TENDENCY. It takes a lot to qualify for the disorder, you provided the list -- I don't think I smacked the label on anyone. I just noted a tendency. It may mean nothing to you. It makes a dent with me. I don't have enough info to come to a conclusion, I doubt I ever will, but I can't ignore it. I notice little things. I can't help it.

Since you said you weren't specifically pointing to Reid I have to ask---did you notice these tendencies in Ed, the character who is shown to bring every discussion back to himself? Again, not trying to be argumentative, just curious.

[VAgirl79]

Oh, my...it's getting so late, and it seems I might have rapped at a hornet's nest, and I really need to get off to bed. Thank you, genuinely, VAgirl, for the list of Narcissistic Personality Disorder traits. Please please understand that I wasn't attempting to diagnose ANYONE with that specific personality disorder, I was just saying that there ARE viewpoints/perceptions which are consistent with narcissistic tendencies. In general, thinking that outcomes depend solely on yourself (your own actions, words, deeds), would be a narcissistic TENDENCY. It takes a lot to qualify for the disorder, you provided the list -- I don't think I smacked the label on anyone. I just noted a tendency. It may mean nothing to you. It makes a dent with me. I don't have enough info to come to a conclusion, I doubt I ever will, but I can't ignore it. I notice little things. I can't help it.

Again, what you're talking about in the bolded sentence is locus of control, not narcissistic tendencies. Narcissistic tendencies/traits are the 7 traits I listed and only those 7 traits. Like I said, society has warped the words "narcissism" and "narcissistic" into things they don't mean. I didn't think you were diagnosing anyone with a personality disorder, Heavens no. I'm just pointing out that what many people think the word means, is not what it means at all.

[ubidiah]

Here's what I think happened. Ed and Jilly got to the FS, started making out and Jilly just wasn't feeling it. She gives the tearful PI about how there's no chemistry, he's tired, sunburned, ect. She's not talking about him not being able to get it up because although I'm not an Ed fan, I'm a fan of Jill's and don't think she's quite that dumb to go down that road. She's talking about him not being attentive or open enough with her. At least that's what I gathered from the whole thing.

They're both sunburned, not feeling well, some quick thinking crew member encourages her to put on the nightie and bikini bottoms. Again, why? Are they going in a pool? No. Someone told her to do it otherwise she would have put on a pair of panties or likely nothing. When most women are about to get it on, their first thought is not a skimpy nightie and a bikini bottom. She rubs aloe all over him, he rubs it all over her, they go to bed. End of story.

I really doubt it was ED and he couldn't get it up. Maybe it was but I just don't see Jillian being that classless and dumb.

Why did she go to Ed at the rose ceremony basically acting like the "chemistry" situation was on him?

[victoria]

Since you said you weren't specifically pointing to Reid I have to ask---did you notice these tendencies in Ed, the character who is shown to bring every discussion back to himself? Again, not trying to be argumentative, just curious.

Indeed, I do. But, at least WRT to EDITED/TV-Ed, he seems to recognize that there's a part of it that's totally in Jillian's hands, and he can only do the best he can, but it's ultimately up to her. EDITED/TV-Ed thanked Jillian for taking what he was sure was "a big bet" or something like that.

PLEASE don't take this to mean I personally PREFER Ed. That's just my interpretation when I wear my "clueless viewer" hat.

[Toughness]

Why did she go to Ed at the rose ceremony and basically acting like the "chemistry" situation was on him?

It was Ed more than Jill I think. The girl still is very much into Ed...she kept him. she let Reid go. She feels more of a connection with Ed. If she takes Reid back and dumps Ed I will be pissed haha cuz that would mean I'm wrong

[sdl]

What I don't get is if Ed couldn't push the rope and that was considered a disaster in the FS, does that imply that both Kip and Reid nailed her like porno stars, constituting a successful "date?"
This show is so gross.