Behind the Edit **SPOILERS** - Page 5

sfhoneybear · 06-07-2008, 07:00 PM

thanks, Mike'sgirl. that makes total sense. in most past seasons, i'd say i've rooted for the one who ends up 2nd place. maybe b/c of editing? i feel like F1 is often a surprise (though not matt/shayne) and that the editors are really trying to mask the final outcome and steer viewers in the wrong direction. so the idea of them providing little hints and clues only sleuthers would pick up on baffled me. your explanation is perfect. thank you!

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Mike'sgirl · 06-07-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoLongerALurker

The bolded part is EXACTLY what I was thinking. Good v. Bad at the outcome. Now, they just need to have Jesse come to FRC wearing a black suit and horns, and Jason coming in with white and a halo....

That is funny!!!
But, they are doing such a great job editing it that way, they may not have to be that obvious. Of course, the general public is not as aware of spoilers and (rumors with substance) as we are so, I can see that perhaps they will end up in the suits (sans horns/halo).

krrj · 06-07-2008, 07:21 PM

Love this thread!!!!!

Great job Piper, Lynn and Bloomers!!

Can't wait till next episode.

PiperMaru · 06-07-2008, 09:07 PM

Yowsa. This thread got big. Cheers everyone! Fabulous insights all the way around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn7

You're being shy.

Aww.. gee..thanks

The way you embellished what she wrote helped me to understand. I don't always understand *hearing speak* but you made sense.

I know what you mean. I'm from a different world...in a way. To read what you and Piper write is truly fascinating to me. Maybe what I write is a different world to you, too. Either way it is fascinating,

Methinks Piper has been to that thread. I like that just as I'm sure you two like it that I'm here in awe. I'm sure the feeling goes both ways.

I only hope that DeAnna is happy and, based on her body language, she is.

ETA: hearing people need to understand that when a deafie is watching this show that they are *reading* what they watch, beyond the edit .,and not what actually happens...

Lynn, Bloomers, you guys Rock!

Bloomers, your approach to this and all the edit tracking you do so well is precisely what we did to chase all this down. First we transcribed and then we dissected the hell out of it. And as you previously posted (i.e. the RC order) it all starts to pile up and pattern out. Add that to the brilliance that is Lynn’s BLF thread (which I’m still poring through) and all of the amazing SC and other finds posters have made and it’s all there (albeit manipulated by evil editors).

Body language really isn’t a factor in Survivor, so I find Lynn’s take on this mesmerizing. Hearing folk don’t pick up the same cues in the same way, and those kinds of observations for a show with so much physical interaction is pure gold. I too am very much drawn to way the edit and body language analysis interact. You guys are REALLY lucky to have someone interpret that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiGirl374

I noticed the same thing when I heard her toast and wondered what, if anything, it meant. I think you've expressed your thoughts beautifully, by the way!
Another thing I've noticed is how often they seem to capture De looking at Jeremy, or sometimes focusing her attention in his direction, making it look like he's the only one she notices.
For example, when Jeremy, Graham and Paul (?) had just gotten out of the pool or hot tub and De was putting lotion on the guy's faces... did you notice who's face they show her putting the lotion on first? It was Jeremy. I didn't see any lotion on Graham or Paul yet so maybe that wasn't so much an edit as much as a reality. After that, they were putting lotion on De (because Paul suggested it) and you see Graham putting lotion on her right arm, Jeremy putting lotion on her left arm, and Paul putting lotion on her back. Who did they show her looking at most of the time in that clip? Jeremy. Here she has three guys putting lotion on her and the only one she really looks at is Jeremy.... or did she? See what I mean?

There are many more examples but those are the first that come to mind. Anyway, it made me wonder if they do this intentionally or is it because that is who she tends to focus on the most, at least up till this point?

You’re spot on with this MiGirl. I was floored by how many times Jeremy showed up in shots in this ep. Even my SO after about fifteen minutes started calling him VelcoMan!

It really becomes apparent when you see it in a transcript. I’ve taken all of Graham out of the transcript and am currently putting it order and it’s very interesting. If anyone’s up for it, they should do the same for Jeremy. And as much as Jeremy shows up, so does Jesse. He’s like a relentless teacup poodle nipping at his heels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProudKsGrandma

I like this new thread. It is a nice compliment with the BLF thread. When we analyze the words actually spoken, or what they want us to hear and see (thru editing), versus the actual body language shown in the BLF they can be very different. Wanted to say thanks for all the hard work done in both threads.

Hi ProudK! I’ve mentioned it before, but what has always struck me in doing transcription analysis if what we think we heard as opposed to what was actually said. I can say with utter confidence for the record that on this show they don’t mumble nearly as much as Survivor. Way too much whispering and incoherent crap. So amen to that. And what they “want” us to see always miffs me a bit. (I’m old enough to think Big Brother is controlling us

) These shows are 100 percent manipulation, and therein lies the challenge. The BLF analysis to me is fascinating when coupled with this aspect. What someone is shown saying doesn’t necessarily jive with a shot of their body language.

Bloomers mentioned that “I believe that Amanda was designated as F3 that first night based on what I know from the editing and tracking order of past seasons. People don't think that happens, but when you go back and track past seasons, the F3s and sometimes F4s frequently pop up the very first night.”

That was often the case in Survivor, although after Burnett getting wind of various analysis being done he tried for a season to bury the winner. The one season he did it, folks were outraged and the winner ended up being very unpopular. Mind you she still had a money shot early on, but then virtually disappeared. That made for a very tumultuous season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arielflies

Lynn7 - thanks for suggesting this thread, and PiperMaru - thanks for starting it and taking a look at camera shots and speech as they edit the storylines.
This morning, before I found this thread, I posted in the Ron thread on the main page about how surfing below the wave of the edit is VERY interesting. Watching for the foreshadowing and what you would call the "money" shots, what I think of as the "telling" shots is the fun part of sleuthing the show. I do admit to missing the one of Jesse simulating "sprinkling" fairy dust over Jason's head, though. I wonder if Jason calling him the devil before Jesse amends it to devil's advocate is also a foreshadow of Jesse trying to sabotage the other men. The "hold your enemies closer" line that you mentioned is, to me, becoming an integral part of Jesse's storyline. Show him your smiling face as you stab him in the back.
So far, they've showed the strong attraction to Jeremy, the growing attraction to Jesse, and the slow though positive attraction to Jason. Jason, though, has the stongest positive edit garanteed, at this point, to draw both DeAnna and the viewers to his side.

On a sidenote regarding forshadowing - Richard was in the Outhouse playing pool when DeAnna arrived for their date. No one yelled for him to come outside. Was this to show him dreading having to face the outcome? Regarding cute as a chipmunk Fred...He was first at her side as an escort down the "walk of shame" as he dubbed it the first episode; and the first (along with Jesse) to reach her on the bull-mat. There is a preview clip of her telling a hidden man, that he was more invested, and it wasn't there...is this DeAnna's goodbye speech to Fred this next week?

Also, The doubts raised with Graham and highlighted in his edit (distance, communication problems, free-styling life) have not been subtle and foreshadow his leaving before the end no matter how much DeAnna wants to keep him. Again, thank you for starting this thread...I look forward to your analysis of episode 4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike'sgirl

How could I have missed this thread until now???

Lynn, Piper and Bloomers Outstanding work! I am truly in awe of you!

Another very observant note Ariel thanks for adding it - there is definitely that play off between good angel (Jason) and little devil (Jesse). We have seen that Jesse is a manipulator and is deceptive. He seems actually hopeful that Jason will be cut, convinced that the news of her son will mean he won't get the rose. The little devil edit is perfect to support a FR surprise ending; either De finds out about Jesse's hidden agenda and girlfriend Megan, and De dumps him in royal style; choosing good angel Jason as the FR. Or, she mistakenly selects little devil as the FR and then finds out about his dealings at which time she royally dumps Jesse and either runs to Jason or possibly Jeremy. Either way, I see surprise edit at the end.

Hi Ariel and MG!
ITA with your excellent observations. There does seem to be a growing underlying angel/devil setup. Last night I was watching X-Men again (have an obvious Hugh Jackman issue

) but there was a line in it where Jean and Logan kiss and she tells him that he’s the “bad guy,” and that you marry the good guy but you flirt with the bad guy. There’s a lot of truth to that. And it’s not to say the she doesn’t choose Jesse. She could. But IMHO, something still ain’t right with the guy’s edit. Red flags. He’s still coming off to me as utterly calculating and relentless. He and Jeremy could both build into a variety of villain edit. Jeremy is shown as not being well liked. Jesse is always in the middle of all the controversy. He’s stirring it, but as someone mentioned, he’s maintaining his likeability with the guys. Tricky business, this.

And poor Fred does look to be shaping up to be what we dubbed a “one-ep wonder,” basically a contestant who’s entire character arc comes and goes in one episode. In Survivor that was typically the case for those who were virtually invisible until the episode prior to their getting the boot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutty1

piper, what I would find interesting is for you to watch one or two episodes of past seasons, and, knowing the outcome, see if these Survivor theories do also apply to The Bachelor. Thanks for all the hard work you have put into your posts!

That would indeed be an interesting experiment. I wouldn’t know which eps to watch or if they’re even online. NOT knowing the outcomes at this point wouldn’t be an issue (insert head swimming emote)

PiperMaru · 06-07-2008, 11:13 PM

So, here’s Graham’s edit under the microscope for ep three. I’ve taken a different tact on this one. His appearances are in the order shown as pulled from the transcript (I’ve left notes at the beginning of each section. Just my useless observations!) I pulled the promos together and those are at the end. Be curious to hear your opinions on how he’s being portrayed!

OPENER:
Notes: Okay so here’s Graham getting out of the limo looking spiff and smiling. He’s the “luckiest,” presumably because he gets the first date and has De’s full-on ab lust. Shown dancing, he’s got a fun side. Curious though that he’s singled out and he’s the only guy who doesn’t conform by wearing his cowboy hat. So will he conform with this love game as it is to be played?

D: “I truly feel (camera on Brian) like the luckiest (Graham) person in the world (Jason) right now.
CH: It’s a Wild West adventure (Graham dancing. My SO points out that he’s the only one not wearing a cowboy hat.)

****

IN THE OUTHOUSE:
Notes: Two references to Graham. Alluding to having your bags packed could be two-fold. Graham had an individual date but survived—his first one. Doesn’t mean he’ll survive the next. If Twilley were getting an individual date than it could apply to him. Could also have been a red flag for Richard. The fact that Richard says “Graham is moving in,” could also indicate Graham moving into an F4 spot. All possibilities.

CH: If you have an individual date you need to have your bags packed (Graham, Twilley).
RICHARD: With Graham moving in and me moving out I’m way behind the game (this spelled poor Richard’s doom right there. Strike one).

****

IN THE MANSION:
Notes: In this segment he gets a pensive shot, a gratuitous ab shot, and an interaction shot with D. Three different sides. The good (abs). The bad (pensive). And the ugly (Jeremy dubbing him unsuitable).

THE MANSION: Jeremy is first at the pool to hug D (pensive shot of Graham). Only Jeremy is shown hugging her.
D: It’s pretty difficult having these three in the house right now. I’m obviously attracted to Jeremy. I want to learn more about Paul, and Graham is hot. I want him to spend the rest of the time in my house without his shirt. (Any other takers?

)
JEREMY: My focus is on DeAnna and letting her see the difference between the three of us. I don’t think either one of them are suited to her, and I think by the end of the week she’ll see that (shot of D and Graham). In the hot tub, Jeremy is sitting very close on D’s left, Paul further away to her right, and Graham a good distance from Jeremy.

****

IN THE OUTHOUSE:
Notes: Interesting dichotomy here. Jason doesn’t single out Graham, the camera does by not showing him. Only Jeremy gets the girl. Only when Jason asks for Graham’s advice is he shown and then he responds in the negative. You don’t need “my” advice. (He didn’t. Jason did do well on his own.) This makes me think of Graham returning from his date with D. He said something to the effect that it was “nothing special.” Either that’s strategy, cluelessness, or his being overwhelmed. That was a huge red flag for Graham IMHO.

Prior to Brian’s statement someone in VO says: “There are two big personalities in the house right now.” Then Brian says: “Jeremy and Graham.” This sounds very chopped as if the two weren’t said in sequence. Is Graham really that big a personality or was the reference to Paul? Jeremy gets his hug and Graham is across the table looking down. Robert says Graham’s a funny guy, and he’s shown giving a toast—but he’s still not sitting next to D. And we’re not being shown his funny side, more the pensive non-committal guy thus far. He’s got distance in this entire sequence. Oh, and does it not creep anyone else, the constant references to living in the Outhouse? It’s like they’re all packed into a Porto-Potty.

JASON PI: Living in the Outhouse is a big disadvantage in regard to building an emotional connection. What will make a big difference is if I finally get to go on a date with her (shot of Jeremy and D in hot tub; Graham and Paul out of the shot).
BRIAN: Jeremy and Graham. To me those are THE two guys (Richard frustrated).
JEREMY TO D: (sitting next to her) Pretty place you’ve got here (one arm hug from D; Graham and Paul sitting across the table).
ROBERT: Graham’s a funny guy. He’s laid back (Graham gives a toast). I hope he does start to push Jeremy out.
JASON: I’m really excited to tell DeAnna about my son. We’re finally gonna be able to talk about Ty. (He asks Graham for advice.)
GRAHAM: You’ll be good on your own. You don’t want any advice from me. I promise. (Good call on that one!)

****

IN THE MANSION:
Notes: Graham is never in any of the lead shots when they show the three guys at the mansion. Jeremy is always there with Graham keeping distance.

D IN MANSION: Boys, I have something for you. (Jeremy first one there, then Paul and Graham; all get dressed for dude ranch.)

****

AT THE DUDE RANCH:
Notes: Graham the non-conformist. No cowboy hat. And the shot of his staring at D’s caboose. Why single him out? Was he the only one doing it or was it to further their physical attraction? He’s shown on the bull and at the campfire confrontation. He’s a participant, yet decides to go rogue with Fred for the sneak attack. Was that just moral support? Because during that convo he’s just sitting there, head down, listening to them talk. What was the motivation for his accompanying Fred? Jealous of Jeremy? They’re talking about the other guys being buddies and here Graham shows up with Fred. Curious that.

DANCE LESSON: Graham in baseball cap (what up with that?) and Jesse next to D.
D DANCING: Amusing actually. Shot of Graham staring directly at her caboose, then shot of Jeremy.
JEREMY: She’s a natural. She got out there and made us all look silly. (At the end of her dance, another shot of Graham and Jeremy.)
BULL RIDING: Sean first, then Graham, Jeremy, Twilley, Jesse.
ROUND THE CAMPFIRE: The Twilley song tanks. Graham still not wearing cowboy hat.
JEREMY: I’m just questioning his tact. (Ron tries to incite support from the others. It appears that Twilley, Jesse, Paul, Ron, Jeremy, Fred, and Graham are present.)
SNEAK ATTACK: Fred and Graham go for a sneak attack on D and Jeremy.
JEREMY: They’re strange because they do want to bond. It’s not what I’m here for, and I guess that’s part of the price you pay for a situation like this. (Fred and Graham burst in. Jeremy leaves. Fred talks to D while Graham sits next to her, head down, playing with hay.)

****

AT THE MANSION:
Notes: Again, Graham not in close proximity to D. And then the first big foreshadow. Jesse’s a good character according to Ellen, but Graham can be “seen through.” The fact that he was shown with Jeremy and Ron doesn’t bode well for him or Jeremy. It certainly foreshadowed Ron’s demise.

AT MANSION: Leaving for Ellen, Jeremy is directly behind D, with Graham and Paul further behind.
D: She (Ellen) is a very good judge of character (Jesse). She sees through people (Graham, Jeremy, then Ron).

****

ON ELLEN:
Notes: Graham is just flat busted on this one. They actually spend the most time talking about him and his communication issue. He’s also outted for his relationship history. This runs parallel to the next scenes, which save for the Beddingfield shot are entirely about Graham. His edit is somewhat vexing. On the one hand he shows as long-term potential F4. On the other, he shows to be tumultuous and gone earlier. Makes me think the only thing that saves him are his abs and the fact that ultimately she’s more physically attracted to him than others down the line. He could last longer by default. Leaving the Ellen stage he’s shown very pensive again before his PI. Obviously the chatter elicited his need to make a move.

ON THE SHOW: Fred is very excited. Jeremy has a habit of slapping and rubbing his hands together. Fred scores on the “what’s good about D” Q&A. Ron’s had the longest relationship at twelve years, Graham the shortest at five months. The guys each take turns dancing. Ellen announces she’s giving the rose. D and Ellen look at a picture collage. Ellen thinks Fred was cute and adorable when dancing. Jeremy seems the most ready to commit to D. The most fun is Jesse, and Graham is scared to death.
D: I know. I don’t know how to make that stop.
ELLEN: If there was a problem, communication would be a hard thing for him. I see how scared he is.
GRAHAM: I really feel the need to speak to her and let her in on who I am as a person. I don’t want it to end tonight before there’s an opportunity for her to know how I relate to people.

****

BEFORE ROSE CEREMONY:
Notes: My bad. Didn’t catch that I keep saying reward challenge.

A few things here. Graham again is present but not engaged when the guys show up. He’s clearly upset about the kissing conversation, which is interesting given he called their date “nothing special.” Wishy washy edit. He’s better during the alone time. At least he’s actually looking at her and touching her. But still. D’s saying she can’t marry someone she knows nothing about is a big red flag. Either he opens up or he doesn’t. And as my SO observed, he felt Graham’s edit was showing possessiveness and lack of control. His “allowing her to go through the process.” I find that interesting coming from a male POV. The weirdest thing for me is the kiss. I wasn’t feeling it. She kissed him. He pulled back. And then she pulled him in again. Maybe the camera’s freaking him out or he’s shy, but that’s not a guy who’s over the moon for the hot chick. JMUO.

REWARD CHALLENGE NIGHT: The Outhouse boys enter. In the mansion, D is on the couch with Jeremy sitting close, Paul further away, and Graham standing.
BACK IN THE MANSION: Jeremy joins Ron, Graham, Jesse, Robert, and Jason. Rob asks how the one-one-one went. Jeremy answers that it was good. Someone asks about the kiss: “you kissed today.” Curious. Must’ve been a reference to Ellen. Can’t tell the voice but it sounds like Jesse. Robert definitely asks: “Was it a fireside kiss?” Jeremy won’t kiss and tell. Graham is seething. In a PI confesses he has trouble with her kissing the other guys.
GRAHAM 1-1: D has concerns. Asks “Have you dated enough to know what you want?” Graham responds that he can’t change his dating history for her, but he does care for her and wants to explore things. “I’m trying to be more what you need.” (Shouldn’t he try to be more himself?) In this convo he’s more engaged, looking at her and stroking her hand.
D: There’s an undeniable connection between us, but I can’t marry someone I know nothing about. (She leans in to kiss him. He pulls back. She pulls him in again.)

****

D WITH CH:
Notes: D’s comments on Graham come between Jesse and Jeremy. Totally my opinion, but I find that D’s efforts to mold this guy into Mr. Perfect seem extraordinary. It’s like the Florence Nightingale syndrome. I can save this guy. I can make him better. Better…stronger…faster. Oops. I digress.

It’s like a shrink session. We made progress. Lets see how he does at next week’s session. Weird.

Graham: My main focus for the night was to get him to stop from being so shy and let his guard down. I feel like we made a good step toward that tonight. (D seems awfully determined to keep Graham in the game.)

****

ROSE CEREMONY:
Notes: I don’t know if these are consistent to shots used in previous seasons, so I’m a bit blind here. I’m guessing the order is intentionally edited for effect or some other evil purpose. The camera shows Graham’s reaction to Twilley and Jeremy getting roses. Both times he’s in last position. And then there’s the toast. The “lets get to know each other better” is likely just that. What’s curious is his being shown with Jeremy. But Jeremy gets the ultimate foreshadow.

1. Twilley (Paul, Jesse, Jeremy, Graham)
3. Jeremy (Ron, Paul, Graham)
5. Graham (Sean, Ron, Paul, Sean)

FINAL TOAST: D with Jesse on one side of her and Jeremy on the other. She praises all of them for “putting themselves out there.” (Cut to Jason smiling.) “Let’s get to know each other better (Jeremy and Graham). Let’s fall in love (Jeremy).

****

NEXT SCENES:
Notes: This excerpt is the Graham show. Aside from Beddingfield, the majority of it is all about Graham. The curious thing about his and D’s back and forth is that it doesn’t really match. She’s saying “you can’t hold back.” And he answers: “I didn’t.” That suggests it makes reference to previous alone time and not the current conversation. Otherwise he would’ve said “I don’t.” So were they talking about their date or other alone time? Very choppy. Also D’s outburst and the “half of you” comment. Is Graham only giving fifty percent? There are nine left (assuming she’s not yet ditched Fred and Robert or someone else). Which half is the lazy half? Oh, and it doesn’t help that the VO about digging the grave could be Graham. If it is him, mark down another red flag.

VO: I’d rather be digging my own grave than what I’m about to do right now. (With the drawl it sounds like Graham.)
Song singing.

Speedway date.
GRAHAM: It remains hard for me.

D: That’s why when you and I have this time you can’t hold back.
GRAHAM: I didn’t. (Choppy edit)
D: It takes away from me and you.
GRAHAM: Sometimes I just don’t feel like it’s just me and you. (Possessive and lack of control? Hmm…)
Beddingfield date. Looks to be Jesse as confirmed by SC.
OUTHOUSE PARTY NIGHTMARE: This just sounds wrong on so many levels

D: I put my whole heart into this (Robert) and only half of you (Graham) put yourselves out there (Jeremy, Brian). If you guys can’t handle it go home! (Alrighty then!)

****

PROMOS:
Notes: I’ve pulled these out from the main text. Promo two is interesting. Graham is shown twice at the eleven and nine rose mention. And in the third promo Graham’s in the “lose the chance” shot. Interesting that. Lumped with Sean, Paul, and Jesse. Paul was dead man walking. Sean has virtually no edit, and Jesse’s the little devil. Could all of them lose their chance? The Graham/Paul/Sean/Jesse combo was shown each time. Ron, Twilley, and Jeremy once. No sign of Jason, Brian, Fred, or Robert.

01 PROMO BEFORE BREAK: Twelve men (Graham, Sean, Paul, Jesse). Only nine roses. Who will DeAnna choose to become her husband?
02 PROMO BEFORE BREAK: Eleven men (Graham, Sean, Paul, Jesse). Nine roses (Graham, Jesse, Ron, Twilley).
03 PROMO BEFORE BREAK: (They keep changing the shots.) Eleven men (Jeremy, Ron). Only nine (Jesse) roses (Paul). Who will lose their chance to marry (Graham, Sean, Paul, Jesse) DeAnna forever?

****

Again, JMO and a different way of looking at an edit. What strikes everyone when you see it in one lump? Lynn, I’m curious your BLF take on Graham when his edit is pulled together. He’s shown pensive, head down, standing apart, seething, and panicked more than he’s shown being the “funny guy.” Does the consistent head bowing indicate lack of self-confidence, bashfulness, or has he lost something on the ground?

If anyone wants to write up a similar format for the other guys, go for it!

MiGirl374 · 06-07-2008, 11:37 PM

Piper, that was the BEST I've read yet! You had me laughing so much with your comments. LOL I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Thank you for taking the time to do that for us.

It does bring out some things to think about when it's all together like this. One thing that (embarrassingly enough) never occured to me was that (duh!) the roses aren't necessarily given in the order in which they show them. How did I never consider this possibility?? LOL Now you make me want to go back and watch each RC and check out the group shots to see if each person prior to the current one has a rose on their lapel.

SweetTexasGal · 06-07-2008, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProudKsGrandma

I like this new thread. It is a nice compliment with the BLF thread. When we analyze the words actually spoken, or what they want us to hear and see (thru editing), versus the actual body language shown in the BLF they can be very different. Wanted to say thanks for all the hard work done in both threads.

ITA I would like to thank Lynn7, Bloomers and Piper for their hard work in putting all this together.

I admit that I PM'd Piper last night and thanked her. I am just about stone deaf. I can't hear the music ya'll hear but I see you talking about it here on the threads, ie...stating music changes when a specific bach is shown. Another example is I had no concept of what a VO was. I see maybe scenery or people in action but no LIPS moving and had no idea people were speaking. I don't have closed captioning on my TV either so all this is wonderful and hope this continues into the next Bach/B'ette.

Michelle

Phyllie · 06-08-2008, 12:03 AM

Kudos, PiperMaru! That's some analysis!

Since we already know Graham is not "the one", it's not surprising to see that the editing is downplaying his positives and accentuating the negatives. I haven't really payed close attention this season, so on the surface it appears to me that the conflict is the process not working for them, even though they are deeply attracted. Could be that is just because Graham is "my type".

One thing I did notice. The date on the beach with Graham. The one PI that was done right after the date with Dee in the same clothes from the date has her giddy and talking about how great it was. Two other PI's were both from much later in the process and she was wearing clothes that either haven't shown up yet on the show and were in unrecognizable rooms. I feel these were filmed either after the show ended or at least after Graham left and they decided to give him the "can't commit" edit.

On an earlier season I remember not being able to believe that a bachelor was majorly making out with the runner up the night before the final rose. I was so shocked, I watched again, and noticed that it was one kiss...on continuous loop that made it look like a dozen kisses.
It's amazing how deceptive it can be...and how even those looking for the deception can be deceived.

Reality tv. Very interesting stuff.

MiGirl374 · 06-08-2008, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetTexasGal

I can't hear the music ya'll hear but I see you talking about it here on the threads, ie...stating music changes when a specific bach is shown.

I remember reading that too. Someone said that (I think it was anyway) on the first episode when Jeremy came out of the car that they played different music (guitar?) and wondered if that was foreshadowing. I went back and watched the first episode and there wasn't any difference in the music, from what I could tell. Maybe they meant another scene, I don't know, but I thought they said it was when she first met all the guys.

PiperMaru · 06-08-2008, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiGirl374

Piper, that was the BEST I've read yet! You had me laughing so much with your comments. LOL I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Thank you for taking the time to do that for us.

It does bring out some things to think about when it's all together like this. One thing that (embarrassingly enough) never occured to me was that (duh!) the roses aren't necessarily given in the order in which they show them. How did I never consider this possibility?? LOL Now you make me want to go back and watch each RC and check out the group shots to see if each person prior to the current one has a rose on their lapel.

It’s enough to make one go bloody bonkers, ain’t it?

And especially annoying when you figure out something like that toward the end of the season and then attempt to go back through every ep to chase it down. God knows I recall revisiting at least sixteen Survivor eps tracking minute details such as when someone’s hair was in a ponytail or braided. It’s rankles like that that make one realize the true value of Starbuck’s, Godiva, and Valium.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetTexasGal

ITA I would like to thank Lynn7, Bloomers and Piper for their hard work in putting all this together.
I admit that I PM'd Piper last night and thanked her. I am just about stone deaf. I can't hear the music ya'll hear but I see you talking about it here on the threads, ie...stating music changes when a specific bach is shown. Another example is I had no concept of what a VO was. I see maybe scenery or people in action but no LIPS moving and had no idea people were speaking. I don't have closed captioning on my TV either so all this is wonderful and hope this continues into the next Bach/B'ette.

Michelle

And that right there makes doing a transcript worthwhile.

Cheers, TexasGal. I’m sooooo glad it helped!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phyllie

Kudos, PiperMaru! That's some analysis!

Since we already know Graham is not "the one", it's not surprising to see that the editing is downplaying his positives and accentuating the negatives. I haven't really payed close attention this season, so on the surface it appears to me that the conflict is the process not working for them, even though they are deeply attracted. Could be that is just because Graham is "my type".

One thing I did notice. The date on the beach with Graham. The one PI that was done right after the date with Dee in the same clothes from the date has her giddy and talking about how great it was. Two other PI's were both from much later in the process and she was wearing clothes that either haven't shown up yet on the show and were in unrecognizable rooms. I feel these were filmed either after the show ended or at least after Graham left and they decided to give him the "can't commit" edit.

On an earlier season I remember not being able to believe that a bachelor was majorly making out with the runner up the night before the final rose. I was so shocked, I watched again, and noticed that it was one kiss...on continuous loop that made it look like a dozen kisses.

It's amazing how deceptive it can be...and how even those looking for the deception can be deceived.

Reality tv. Very interesting stuff.

Excellent catch! It’s actually an advantage here, the tracking of clothing. On Survivor you’re really left with nothing but weight loss and beard growth in those circumstances and sometimes bg scenery. That’s one more thing to pay attention to for the next ep!

A quick question. I know that astute sleuthers have already tracked caps and dates about Jeremy’s possible F3 demise. In the past, have they ever thrown out those types of “goodbye” SC to throw spoilers off the scent and still had that person in the F2?

06-07-2008, 07:00 PM	#41
sfhoneybear FORT Newbie Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Bay Area Posts: 10	Re: Behind the Edit SPOILERS thanks, Mike'sgirl. that makes total sense. in most past seasons, i'd say i've rooted for the one who ends up 2nd place. maybe b/c of editing? i feel like F1 is often a surprise (though not matt/shayne) and that the editors are really trying to mask the final outcome and steer viewers in the wrong direction. so the idea of them providing little hints and clues only sleuthers would pick up on baffled me. your explanation is perfect. thank you!

06-07-2008, 07:21 PM	#43
krrj FORT Regular Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NC Posts: 111	Re: Behind the Edit SPOILERS Love this thread!!!!! Great job Piper, Lynn and Bloomers!! Can't wait till next episode. __________________

06-07-2008, 11:13 PM	#45
PiperMaru FORT Regular Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 84	Re: Behind the Edit SPOILERS So, here’s Graham’s edit under the microscope for ep three. I’ve taken a different tact on this one. His appearances are in the order shown as pulled from the transcript (I’ve left notes at the beginning of each section. Just my useless observations!) I pulled the promos together and those are at the end. Be curious to hear your opinions on how he’s being portrayed! OPENER: Notes: Okay so here’s Graham getting out of the limo looking spiff and smiling. He’s the “luckiest,” presumably because he gets the first date and has De’s full-on ab lust. Shown dancing, he’s got a fun side. Curious though that he’s singled out and he’s the only guy who doesn’t conform by wearing his cowboy hat. So will he conform with this love game as it is to be played? D: “I truly feel (camera on Brian) like the luckiest (Graham) person in the world (Jason) right now. CH: It’s a Wild West adventure (Graham dancing. My SO points out that he’s the only one not wearing a cowboy hat.) ** IN THE OUTHOUSE: Notes: Two references to Graham. Alluding to having your bags packed could be two-fold. Graham had an individual date but survived—his first one. Doesn’t mean he’ll survive the next. If Twilley were getting an individual date than it could apply to him. Could also have been a red flag for Richard. The fact that Richard says “Graham is moving in,” could also indicate Graham moving into an F4 spot. All possibilities. CH: If you have an individual date you need to have your bags packed (Graham, Twilley). RICHARD: With Graham moving in and me moving out I’m way behind the game (this spelled poor Richard’s doom right there. Strike one). IN THE MANSION: Notes: In this segment he gets a pensive shot, a gratuitous ab shot, and an interaction shot with D. Three different sides. The good (abs). The bad (pensive). And the ugly (Jeremy dubbing him unsuitable). THE MANSION: Jeremy is first at the pool to hug D (pensive shot of Graham). Only Jeremy is shown hugging her. D: It’s pretty difficult having these three in the house right now. I’m obviously attracted to Jeremy. I want to learn more about Paul, and Graham is hot. I want him to spend the rest of the time in my house without his shirt. (Any other takers? ) JEREMY: My focus is on DeAnna and letting her see the difference between the three of us. I don’t think either one of them are suited to her, and I think by the end of the week she’ll see that (shot of D and Graham). In the hot tub, Jeremy is sitting very close on D’s left, Paul further away to her right, and Graham a good distance from Jeremy. IN THE OUTHOUSE: Notes: Interesting dichotomy here. Jason doesn’t single out Graham, the camera does by not showing him. Only Jeremy gets the girl. Only when Jason asks for Graham’s advice is he shown and then he responds in the negative. You don’t need “my” advice. (He didn’t. Jason did do well on his own.) This makes me think of Graham returning from his date with D. He said something to the effect that it was “nothing special.” Either that’s strategy, cluelessness, or his being overwhelmed. That was a huge red flag for Graham IMHO. Prior to Brian’s statement someone in VO says: “There are two big personalities in the house right now.” Then Brian says: “Jeremy and Graham.” This sounds very chopped as if the two weren’t said in sequence. Is Graham really that big a personality or was the reference to Paul? Jeremy gets his hug and Graham is across the table looking down. Robert says Graham’s a funny guy, and he’s shown giving a toast—but he’s still not sitting next to D. And we’re not being shown his funny side, more the pensive non-committal guy thus far. He’s got distance in this entire sequence. Oh, and does it not creep anyone else, the constant references to living in the Outhouse? It’s like they’re all packed into a Porto-Potty. JASON PI: Living in the Outhouse is a big disadvantage in regard to building an emotional connection. What will make a big difference is if I finally get to go on a date with her (shot of Jeremy and D in hot tub; Graham and Paul out of the shot). BRIAN: Jeremy and Graham. To me those are THE two guys (Richard frustrated). JEREMY TO D: (sitting next to her) Pretty place you’ve got here (one arm hug from D; Graham and Paul sitting across the table). ROBERT: Graham’s a funny guy. He’s laid back (Graham gives a toast). I hope he does start to push Jeremy out. JASON: I’m really excited to tell DeAnna about my son. We’re finally gonna be able to talk about Ty. (He asks Graham for advice.) GRAHAM: You’ll be good on your own. You don’t want any advice from me. I promise. (Good call on that one!) IN THE MANSION: Notes: Graham is never in any of the lead shots when they show the three guys at the mansion. Jeremy is always there with Graham keeping distance. D IN MANSION: Boys, I have something for you. (Jeremy first one there, then Paul and Graham; all get dressed for dude ranch.) AT THE DUDE RANCH: Notes: Graham the non-conformist. No cowboy hat. And the shot of his staring at D’s caboose. Why single him out? Was he the only one doing it or was it to further their physical attraction? He’s shown on the bull and at the campfire confrontation. He’s a participant, yet decides to go rogue with Fred for the sneak attack. Was that just moral support? Because during that convo he’s just sitting there, head down, listening to them talk. What was the motivation for his accompanying Fred? Jealous of Jeremy? They’re talking about the other guys being buddies and here Graham shows up with Fred. Curious that. DANCE LESSON: Graham in baseball cap (what up with that?) and Jesse next to D. D DANCING: Amusing actually. Shot of Graham staring directly at her caboose, then shot of Jeremy. JEREMY: She’s a natural. She got out there and made us all look silly. (At the end of her dance, another shot of Graham and Jeremy.) BULL RIDING: Sean first, then Graham, Jeremy, Twilley, Jesse. ROUND THE CAMPFIRE: The Twilley song tanks. Graham still not wearing cowboy hat. JEREMY: I’m just questioning his tact. (Ron tries to incite support from the others. It appears that Twilley, Jesse, Paul, Ron, Jeremy, Fred, and Graham are present.) SNEAK ATTACK: Fred and Graham go for a sneak attack on D and Jeremy. JEREMY: They’re strange because they do want to bond. It’s not what I’m here for, and I guess that’s part of the price you pay for a situation like this. (Fred and Graham burst in. Jeremy leaves. Fred talks to D while Graham sits next to her, head down, playing with hay.) AT THE MANSION: Notes: Again, Graham not in close proximity to D. And then the first big foreshadow. Jesse’s a good character according to Ellen, but Graham can be “seen through.” The fact that he was shown with Jeremy and Ron doesn’t bode well for him or Jeremy. It certainly foreshadowed Ron’s demise. AT MANSION: Leaving for Ellen, Jeremy is directly behind D, with Graham and Paul further behind. D: She (Ellen) is a very good judge of character (Jesse). She sees through people (Graham, Jeremy, then Ron). ON ELLEN: Notes: Graham is just flat busted on this one. They actually spend the most time talking about him and his communication issue. He’s also outted for his relationship history. This runs parallel to the next scenes, which save for the Beddingfield shot are entirely about Graham. His edit is somewhat vexing. On the one hand he shows as long-term potential F4. On the other, he shows to be tumultuous and gone earlier. Makes me think the only thing that saves him are his abs and the fact that ultimately she’s more physically attracted to him than others down the line. He could last longer by default. Leaving the Ellen stage he’s shown very pensive again before his PI. Obviously the chatter elicited his need to make a move. ON THE SHOW: Fred is very excited. Jeremy has a habit of slapping and rubbing his hands together. Fred scores on the “what’s good about D” Q&A. Ron’s had the longest relationship at twelve years, Graham the shortest at five months. The guys each take turns dancing. Ellen announces she’s giving the rose. D and Ellen look at a picture collage. Ellen thinks Fred was cute and adorable when dancing. Jeremy seems the most ready to commit to D. The most fun is Jesse, and Graham is scared to death. D: I know. I don’t know how to make that stop. ELLEN: If there was a problem, communication would be a hard thing for him. I see how scared he is. GRAHAM: I really feel the need to speak to her and let her in on who I am as a person. I don’t want it to end tonight before there’s an opportunity for her to know how I relate to people. BEFORE ROSE CEREMONY: Notes: My bad. Didn’t catch that I keep saying reward challenge. A few things here. Graham again is present but not engaged when the guys show up. He’s clearly upset about the kissing conversation, which is interesting given he called their date “nothing special.” Wishy washy edit. He’s better during the alone time. At least he’s actually looking at her and touching her. But still. D’s saying she can’t marry someone she knows nothing about is a big red flag. Either he opens up or he doesn’t. And as my SO observed, he felt Graham’s edit was showing possessiveness and lack of control. His “allowing her to go through the process.” I find that interesting coming from a male POV. The weirdest thing for me is the kiss. I wasn’t feeling it. She kissed him. He pulled back. And then she pulled him in again. Maybe the camera’s freaking him out or he’s shy, but that’s not a guy who’s over the moon for the hot chick. JMUO. REWARD CHALLENGE NIGHT: The Outhouse boys enter. In the mansion, D is on the couch with Jeremy sitting close, Paul further away, and Graham standing. BACK IN THE MANSION: Jeremy joins Ron, Graham, Jesse, Robert, and Jason. Rob asks how the one-one-one went. Jeremy answers that it was good. Someone asks about the kiss: “you kissed today.” Curious. Must’ve been a reference to Ellen. Can’t tell the voice but it sounds like Jesse. Robert definitely asks: “Was it a fireside kiss?” Jeremy won’t kiss and tell. Graham is seething. In a PI confesses he has trouble with her kissing the other guys. GRAHAM 1-1: D has concerns. Asks “Have you dated enough to know what you want?” Graham responds that he can’t change his dating history for her, but he does care for her and wants to explore things. “I’m trying to be more what you need.” (Shouldn’t he try to be more himself?) In this convo he’s more engaged, looking at her and stroking her hand. D: There’s an undeniable connection between us, but I can’t marry someone I know nothing about. (She leans in to kiss him. He pulls back. She pulls him in again.) D WITH CH: Notes: D’s comments on Graham come between Jesse and Jeremy. Totally my opinion, but I find that D’s efforts to mold this guy into Mr. Perfect seem extraordinary. It’s like the Florence Nightingale syndrome. I can save this guy. I can make him better. Better…stronger…faster. Oops. I digress. It’s like a shrink session. We made progress. Lets see how he does at next week’s session. Weird. Graham: My main focus for the night was to get him to stop from being so shy and let his guard down. I feel like we made a good step toward that tonight. (D seems awfully determined to keep Graham in the game.) ROSE CEREMONY: Notes: I don’t know if these are consistent to shots used in previous seasons, so I’m a bit blind here. I’m guessing the order is intentionally edited for effect or some other evil purpose. The camera shows Graham’s reaction to Twilley and Jeremy getting roses. Both times he’s in last position. And then there’s the toast. The “lets get to know each other better” is likely just that. What’s curious is his being shown with Jeremy. But Jeremy gets the ultimate foreshadow. 1. Twilley (Paul, Jesse, Jeremy, Graham) 3. Jeremy (Ron, Paul, Graham) 5. Graham (Sean, Ron, Paul, Sean) FINAL TOAST: D with Jesse on one side of her and Jeremy on the other. She praises all of them for “putting themselves out there.” (Cut to Jason smiling.) “Let’s get to know each other better (Jeremy and Graham). Let’s fall in love (Jeremy). NEXT SCENES: Notes: This excerpt is the Graham show. Aside from Beddingfield, the majority of it is all about Graham. The curious thing about his and D’s back and forth is that it doesn’t really match. She’s saying “you can’t hold back.” And he answers: “I didn’t.” That suggests it makes reference to previous alone time and not the current conversation. Otherwise he would’ve said “I don’t.” So were they talking about their date or other alone time? Very choppy. Also D’s outburst and the “half of you” comment. Is Graham only giving fifty percent? There are nine left (assuming she’s not yet ditched Fred and Robert or someone else). Which half is the lazy half? Oh, and it doesn’t help that the VO about digging the grave could be Graham. If it is him, mark down another red flag. VO: I’d rather be digging my own grave than what I’m about to do right now. (With the drawl it sounds like Graham.) Song singing. Speedway date. GRAHAM: It remains hard for me. D: That’s why when you and I have this time you can’t hold back. GRAHAM: I didn’t. (Choppy edit) D: It takes away from me and you. GRAHAM: Sometimes I just don’t feel like it’s just me and you. (Possessive and lack of control? Hmm…) Beddingfield date. Looks to be Jesse as confirmed by SC. OUTHOUSE PARTY NIGHTMARE: This just sounds wrong on so many levels D: I put my whole heart into this (Robert) and only half of you (Graham) put yourselves out there (Jeremy, Brian). If you guys can’t handle it go home! (Alrighty then!) PROMOS: Notes: I’ve pulled these out from the main text. Promo two is interesting. Graham is shown twice at the eleven and nine rose mention. And in the third promo Graham’s in the “lose the chance” shot. Interesting that. Lumped with Sean, Paul, and Jesse. Paul was dead man walking. Sean has virtually no edit, and Jesse’s the little devil. Could all of them lose their chance? The Graham/Paul/Sean/Jesse combo was shown each time. Ron, Twilley, and Jeremy once. No sign of Jason, Brian, Fred, or Robert. 01 PROMO BEFORE BREAK: Twelve men (Graham, Sean, Paul, Jesse). Only nine roses. Who will DeAnna choose to become her husband? 02 PROMO BEFORE BREAK: Eleven men (Graham, Sean, Paul, Jesse). Nine roses (Graham, Jesse, Ron, Twilley). 03 PROMO BEFORE BREAK: (They keep changing the shots.) Eleven men (Jeremy, Ron). Only nine (Jesse) roses (Paul). Who will lose their chance to marry (Graham, Sean, Paul, Jesse) DeAnna forever? ** Again, JMO and a different way of looking at an edit. What strikes everyone when you see it in one lump? Lynn, I’m curious your BLF take on Graham when his edit is pulled together. He’s shown pensive, head down, standing apart, seething, and panicked more than he’s shown being the “funny guy.” Does the consistent head bowing indicate lack of self-confidence, bashfulness, or has he lost something on the ground? If anyone wants to write up a similar format for the other guys, go for it!

06-07-2008, 11:37 PM	#46
MiGirl374 FORT Regular Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 101	Re: Behind the Edit SPOILERS Piper, that was the BEST I've read yet! You had me laughing so much with your comments. LOL I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Thank you for taking the time to do that for us. It does bring out some things to think about when it's all together like this. One thing that (embarrassingly enough) never occured to me was that (duh!) the roses aren't necessarily given in the order in which they show them. How did I never consider this possibility?? LOL Now you make me want to go back and watch each RC and check out the group shots to see if each person prior to the current one has a rose on their lapel.

06-08-2008, 12:03 AM	#48
Phyllie FORT Fan Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 306	Re: Behind the Edit SPOILERS Kudos, PiperMaru! That's some analysis! Since we already know Graham is not "the one", it's not surprising to see that the editing is downplaying his positives and accentuating the negatives. I haven't really payed close attention this season, so on the surface it appears to me that the conflict is the process not working for them, even though they are deeply attracted. Could be that is just because Graham is "my type". One thing I did notice. The date on the beach with Graham. The one PI that was done right after the date with Dee in the same clothes from the date has her giddy and talking about how great it was. Two other PI's were both from much later in the process and she was wearing clothes that either haven't shown up yet on the show and were in unrecognizable rooms. I feel these were filmed either after the show ended or at least after Graham left and they decided to give him the "can't commit" edit. On an earlier season I remember not being able to believe that a bachelor was majorly making out with the runner up the night before the final rose. I was so shocked, I watched again, and noticed that it was one kiss...on continuous loop that made it look like a dozen kisses. It's amazing how deceptive it can be...and how even those looking for the deception can be deceived. Reality tv. Very interesting stuff.