Behind the Edit **SPOILERS**

[Lynn7]

Originally Posted by sillyleann

I am new to the FORT, but not new to analyzing the bach/bachelorette. (and clearly not an expert, I am no where near the quality of many here)

But, I must say that I didn't see the romance like everyone else either. And I am a HUGE Jason fan (he is so much like my DH). At times I saw glimpses of what were special, but as a whole I didn't "feel" it either. I do think it will be a very good foundation for what is to come.

I will also add that as a whole, this season seems to be horribly choppy at times (i.e. Jason and Dee's 1-on-1). It makes it hard to enjoy.

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm legally deaf so, for me, the Body, Lip and Facial communication (another thread) that goes on means more to me than anything else. There is no doubt that the *romance* as you describe it isn't exactly smoldering at this point like it was, say, for Graham during their kiss and their 1on1s. What got me with the Jason and DeAnna date the other night is the deep emotional connection that was made.

If you watch the progressing relationship in the screencaps, like I do, you'll see the romance clear as day. How that plays out, I don't know, but if I *ever* saw a romance it is with these two (and Trista and Ryan). I don't think I've ever referred to any other couple on this show, on this board, as developing a romance. Check my posts if you don't believe me.

[Google]

 

[PiperMaru]

Originally Posted by Lynn7

Oh, I would love for you to go back to school and learn how to clone me, and about 3,000 other women, a Jeremy of our own. It would make life so much easier not having to share the poor guy. Your efforts would be most appreciated.

So, the equivalent to a Survivor *money shot*, perhaps, is the equivalent of the winning guy/girl getting those shots on the Bachelor/ette? What distinguishes a money shot from a bad guy shot or a villain shot? Is a major money shot different from just a money shot? Or, are they the same?
Also, I understand what you're saying about the camera shots. I only picked those ones because they were nicely grouped together.

Do the actual camera shots, of whoever they are showing, while someone else is talking, mean something? The fact that they showed Paul and Ron makes sense but throughout the show we had many shots of other guys so I'm wondering what it all means if only from a Survivor perspective.

I realize that there may not be a perfect parallel between the two shows and that maybe the lingo used with Survivor might not seamlessly be used here but maybe you could translate where you think it's different from how you refer to different things (ie: the money shot on Survivor means the person winning the money but in this show maybe it means the winner of the prize).

Ha! I told you I'd have questions. Methinks you've created a monster just like i<3reality did by helping me post screencaps

Uhm, I think you just did

Is there an emote where I can slap myself for the Graham digression?

Lynn is making me think! Ha! Oh. And believe me, if I could clone… I’d have made myself a Hugh Jackman eons ago!

Okay, I’m trying to get the distinctions clear in my head, so pardon my thinking out loud. It’s hard to explain, but it’s so weird. Bachelorette and Survivor on the outside is like comparing apples to oranges, but many of the same analysis principles apply. Survivor is first and foremost a game show loaded down with strategy and encompassed in complicated social dynamics. Winner takes home the million. In Bach (and correct me if I’m in error), the goal is ultimately to find a love match, ideally a permanent one. This show is also driven by social dynamics, but still heavily reliant on strategy made easier for participants if physical and emotion chemistry are present.

The editing principles seem to crossover on many levels, although what sets Bach apart is that one woman holds all the cards, and in reality we haven’t a clue what her true attractions and preferences are. That’s the wild card. And given that the goal of finding love is very personal, the stakes are much higher than just banking a million. I can’t fully speak to the editing here, of course, never having seen previous installments, but the comparisons are intriguing. I would say for purposes here a money shot is the same as a major money shot, and to me it’s a red flag that could indicate a winner, someone who sticks around, and, on the flip side could also foreshadow a major twist or even a villain (see Jeremy explanation below). It really does depend on the shot, who it is, where it’s shown, and the tone of the edit that person is getting. As Bloomers pointed out, Jason’s edit has been positive, so I’d interpret his money shots as being positive. Jesse’s edit has some underlying negativity, so his money shots are more open to interpretation, but significant nonetheless.

As to the Survivor camera shots, we never took anything for granted. I always run under the assumption that everything means something no matter how big or small and nothing is as it appears to be. You’re right about the obvious boots (Ron, Paul, and poor Richard), as their arcs throughout the episode were destined for disaster. I’m right in the middle of a Graham analysis, going through all of his appearances in the ep. That might help clarify more about the camera shots. What I pay particular attention to are the faces they focus on during crucial dialog, the final toast for example:

FINAL TOAST: D with Jesse on one side of her and Jeremy on the other. She praises all of them for “putting themselves out there.” (Cut to Jason smiling.) “Let’s get to know each other better (Jeremy and Graham). Let’s fall in love (Jeremy).

The shot of Jason made perfect sense given their date. The shots of Jeremy and Graham follow the assumption that she wants to keep them around. The final shot of Jeremy, however, is intriguing and entirely up to interpretation. It’s obviously intentional, but what does it mean? Does he fall in love and she doesn’t? Do they want us to think he’s her final choice? Does it indicate there’s no love lost between Jeremy and the guys? It’s entirely speculative, but as the eps roll by and such instances begin to pile up, a definite pattern almost always emerges. I guess that’s the thrill in the chase.

(I don’t know if any my blather makes sense BTW)

Karey, I’ll revisit the DeAnna/Jason date. I noticed that at one point as well. Seemed a bit lean. Could’ve been that my brain was exploding after so many hours!

Hi Secret, Mia, and Suza! So much great info to digest. Yikes!

[Vet_Tech]

LATER AT THE OUTHOUSE: The guys are with Jason and D waiting for the chopper. When the chopper arrives Jason says: “I’m sorry guys, I might never come back.

Ok this is how I saw this one. That Jason may not return as a single man/life. He and Dee are now a couple!!!

[Bloomers]

Originally Posted by MiaRose

Piper's transcript reminded me that D said the reason that she was glad to have the guys stay in the house was to see what they are "really like" see them first thing in the am.... I wondered if they left Jesse's farting/pooping conversation in to show that he is revealing what he "really is like" just as D hopes. I think this is the aspect of Jesse that will take him to F2. Many of us have wondered what she could see in him over Jeremy, Graham or beautiful Brian. After rereading the transcript I think she sees a real person in Jesse and that is one of the things that she has repeatedly said she wants in a guy "Someone who knows who they are and knows what they want." Jesse is doing a good job of being down to earth and showing her what he wants.

As hidden matters come to light, Jesse is becoming more and more real to DeAnna. From what we are hearing, by the time of the F2 Meet Her Parents date the sponsorship money issue and the girlfriend back home have made Jesse much more real than DeAnna will ever admire.

I would not want to be standing in front of the fan when it all hits.

It is too bad that the editing in the first episode didn't show us Jenni asking Jesse, "Have you ever cheated?"

[Lynn7]

Originally Posted by PiperMaru

Is there an emote where I can slap myself for the Graham digression?

Lynn is making me think! Ha! Oh. And believe me, if I could clone… I’d have made myself a Hugh Jackman eons ago!

Okay, I’m trying to get the distinctions clear in my head, so pardon my thinking out loud. It’s hard to explain, but it’s so weird. Bachelorette and Survivor on the outside is like comparing apples to oranges, but many of the same analysis principles apply. Survivor is first and foremost a game show loaded down with strategy and encompassed in complicated social dynamics. Winner takes home the million. In Bach (and correct me if I’m in error), the goal is ultimately to find a love match, ideally a permanent one. This show is also driven by social dynamics, but still heavily reliant on strategy made easier for participants if physical and emotion chemistry are present.

The editing principles seem to crossover on many levels, although what sets Bach apart is that one woman holds all the cards, and in reality we haven’t a clue what her true attractions and preferences are. That’s the wild card. And given that the goal of finding love is very personal, the stakes are much higher than just banking a million. I can’t fully speak to the editing here, of course, never having seen previous installments, but the comparisons are intriguing. I would say for purposes here a money shot is the same as a major money shot, and to me it’s a red flag that could indicate a winner, someone who sticks around, and, on the flip side could also foreshadow a major twist or even a villain (see Jeremy explanation below). It really does depend on the shot, who it is, where it’s shown, and the tone of the edit that person is getting. As Bloomers pointed out, Jason’s edit has been positive, so I’d interpret his money shots as being positive. Jesse’s edit has some underlying negativity, so his money shots are more open to interpretation, but significant nonetheless.

As to the Survivor camera shots, we never took anything for granted. I always run under the assumption that everything means something no matter how big or small and nothing is as it appears to be. You’re right about the obvious boots (Ron, Paul, and poor Richard), as their arcs throughout the episode were destined for disaster. I’m right in the middle of a Graham analysis, going through all of his appearances in the ep. That might help clarify more about the camera shots. What I pay particular attention to are the faces they focus on during crucial dialog, the final toast for example:

FINAL TOAST: D with Jesse on one side of her and Jeremy on the other. She praises all of them for “putting themselves out there.” (Cut to Jason smiling.) “Let’s get to know each other better (Jeremy and Graham). Let’s fall in love (Jeremy).

The shot of Jason made perfect sense given their date. The shots of Jeremy and Graham follow the assumption that she wants to keep them around. The final shot of Jeremy, however, is intriguing and entirely up to interpretation. It’s obviously intentional, but what does it mean? Does he fall in love and she doesn’t? Do they want us to think he’s her final choice? Does it indicate there’s no love lost between Jeremy and the guys? It’s entirely speculative, but as the eps roll by and such instances begin to pile up, a definite pattern almost always emerges. I guess that’s the thrill in the chase.

(I don’t know if any my blather makes sense BTW)

Karey, I’ll revisit the DeAnna/Jason date. I noticed that at one point as well. Seemed a bit lean. Could’ve been that my brain was exploding after so many hours!

Hi Secret, Mia, and Suza! So much great info to digest. Yikes!

No, there's no emoticon for that!

Ha! Well, I always want the bright posters to think.

I don't think they are so different. The winner gets the prize...the girl/guy. No money can be placed on that connection. If it is there. Sometimes it is not.

Uhm..give me some Hugh Jackman..I'm not picky....Jeremy, Hugh..Georgie.

I really like how you *see* the edit. I'm not sure that I'm clear on what a "money" shot means but, give me a few days, I'll get it.

Thank you so much for posting here. This is truly a different way to look at the show.

[Bloomers]

Thanks, Lynn, for suggesting that Piper bring this over and for bringing mine over too.
Thanks for the compliments, folks! However, Piper has done the majority of the work....I was able to basically piggy-back onto what she had done ( with some re-arranging) and add my thoughts to it, but she did the lion's share of the work. Again, kudo and props to her.

Also, Lynn, wait until she discovers your expertise and what you are able to do. She is going to love it as well! You see, I can't begin to do what you do.. After you lay it out, I think, "Yes, I see that but the thought process was just a concept - it was never put into words like she is able to do it."

I love everybody's input - the analysis, the screencaps, the media reports, the opinions, the fun thread ( boy, do I miss RandalR!!)- and I think it is all of us who make this board the great place that it is.

[MiGirl374]

Originally Posted by PiperMaru

FINAL TOAST: D with Jesse on one side of her and Jeremy on the other. She praises all of them for “putting themselves out there.” (Cut to Jason smiling.) “Let’s get to know each other better (Jeremy and Graham). Let’s fall in love (Jeremy).

The shot of Jason made perfect sense given their date. The shots of Jeremy and Graham follow the assumption that she wants to keep them around. The final shot of Jeremy, however, is intriguing and entirely up to interpretation. It’s obviously intentional, but what does it mean? Does he fall in love and she doesn’t? Do they want us to think he’s her final choice? Does it indicate there’s no love lost between Jeremy and the guys? It’s entirely speculative, but as the eps roll by and such instances begin to pile up, a definite pattern almost always emerges. I guess that’s the thrill in the chase.

I noticed the same thing when I heard her toast and wondered what, if anything, it meant. I think you've expressed your thoughts beautifully, by the way!

Another thing I've noticed is how often they seem to capture De looking at Jeremy, or sometimes focusing her attention in his direction, making it look like he's the only one she notices.

For example, when Jeremy, Graham and Paul (?) had just gotten out of the pool or hot tub and De was putting lotion on the guy's faces... did you notice who's face they show her putting the lotion on first? It was Jeremy. I didn't see any lotion on Graham or Paul yet so maybe that wasn't so much an edit as much as a reality.

After that, they were putting lotion on De (because Paul suggested it) and you see Graham putting lotion on her right arm, Jeremy putting lotion on her left arm, and Paul putting lotion on her back. Who did they show her looking at most of the time in that clip? Jeremy. Here she has three guys putting lotion on her and the only one she really looks at is Jeremy.... or did she? See what I mean?

There are many more examples but those are the first that come to mind. Anyway, it made me wonder if they do this intentionally or is it because that is who she tends to focus on the most, at least up till this point?

[Lynn7]

Originally Posted by Bloomers

Thanks, Lynn, for suggesting that Piper bring this over and for bringing mine over too.
Thanks for the compliments, folks! However, Piper has done the majority of the work....I was able to basically piggy-back onto what she had done ( with some re-arranging) and add my thoughts to it, but she did the lion's share of the work. Again, kudo and props to her.

Also, Lynn, wait until she discovers your expertise and what you are able to do. She is going to love it as well! You see, I can't begin to do what you do.. After you lay it out, I think, "Yes, I see that but the thought process was just a concept - it was never put into words like she is able to do it."

I love everybody's input - the analysis, the screencaps, the media reports, the opinions, the fun thread ( boy, do I miss RandalR!!)- and I think it is all of us who make this board the great place that it is.

You're being shy.

Aww.. gee..thanks

The way you embellished what she wrote helped me to understand. I don't always understand *hearing speak* but you made sense.

I know what you mean. I'm from a different world...in a way. To read what you and Piper write is truly fascinating to me. Maybe what I write is a different world to you, too. Either way it is fascinating,

Methinks Piper has been to that thread. I like that just as I'm sure you two like it that I'm here in awe. I'm sure the feeling goes both ways.

I only hope that DeAnna is happy and, based on her body language, she is.

ETA: hearing people need to understand that when a deafie is watching this show that they are *reading* what they watch, beyond the edit .,and not what actually happens...

[ProudKsGrandma]

Originally Posted by Lynn7

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm legally deaf so, for me, the Body, Lip and Facial communication (another thread) that goes on means more to me than anything else. There is no doubt that the *romance* as you describe it isn't exactly smoldering at this point like it was, say, for Graham during their kiss and their 1on1s. What got me with the Jason and DeAnna date the other night is the deep emotional connection that was made.

If you watch the progressing relationship in the screencaps, like I do, you'll see the romance clear as day. How that plays out, I don't know, but if I *ever* saw a romance it is with these two (and Trista and Ryan). I don't think I've ever referred to any other couple on this show, on this board, as developing a romance. Check my posts if you don't believe me.

I like this new thread. It is a nice compliment with the BLF thread. When we analyze the words actually spoken, or what they want us to hear and see (thru editing), versus the actual body language shown in the BLF they can be very different. Wanted to say thanks for all the hard work done in both threads.

[nutty1]

piper, what I would find interesting is for you to watch one or two episodes of past seasons, and, knowing the outcome, see if these Survivor theories do also apply to The Bachelor.

Thanks for all the hard work you have put into your posts!