Behind the Edit **SPOILERS**

[BachfanNY]

I don't think that Graham has commitment problems. I think his problem is completely different.

Graham is an attractive guy, who honestly doesn't have to compete to get a gf. He seems to want exclusive treatment from Deanna and that's just not possible here. So what I see in him is more lacking in maturity than anything else. He's obviously lacking in experience as well and finds himself unsure how to even handle the situation (i.e. holding hands with her one minute, snubbing her the next)

I feel that if it was just De and him, he may be able to commit, but he's in a situation where the other half just can't do that.

MHO- he's sweet and cute, but he's got some growing up to do. Deanna's past that stage and needs someone who is just going to be there for her, that's the bottom line!

[Google]

 

[emusha]

Originally Posted by BachfanNY

I don't think that Graham has commitment problems. I think his problem is completely different.

Graham is an attractive guy, who honestly doesn't have to compete to get a gf. He seems to want exclusive treatment from Deanna and that's just not possible here. So what I see in him is more lacking in maturity than anything else. He's obviously lacking in experience as well and finds himself unsure how to even handle the situation (i.e. holding hands with her one minute, snubbing her the next)

I feel that if it was just De and him, he may be able to commit, but he's in a situation where the other half just can't do that.

MHO- he's sweet and cute, but he's got some growing up to do. Deanna's past that stage and needs someone who is just going to be there for her, that's the bottom line!

I agree he is acting very erratically- and that's IMHO cos he's acting from his emotions. And he feels that things are completely out of his hand...I just think he lacks reassurance that she feels something for him in a diff way from the others, because he feels its 'special' but is scared she's shared the same thing with others...he keeps using the words 'switching emotions on and off' 'other guys she has feelings for' 'whether he feels pain, matters to her?'...
during the last RC he was searching her eyes, waiting for her to respond to his comments like: "i'm hoping my concern changed the way you feel, even in a little way" etc...

I think he would handle it much better with some reassurances, confessions from her about how she feels (unless its purely physical for her)

[KareyR2]

Originally Posted by procheervet

The guys seem to have said he was a great guy, funny, personable, I just think we are not seeing that. Again, I think it is presumptous to assume he has "issues" just because of what Fleiss wants us to see. As far as the whole Jason thing, lets just say that I have reason to believe that had Graham stayed, he was F1 and leave it at that.
Love sparring with you!

Love sparring with you too procheervet!!! I will end for now with this one quote. I have concerns about Grayham as a committed longterm, marriage type relationship for DeAnna, but none of my concerns have anything to do with the fact that he is a great guy, a great friend. I am not trying to be presumptuous about him having "issues"...it is his own stated one time long term relationship in his 29 years, (and that was only 5 months long), which gives me pause for concern. I don't care what kind of excuses and reasons are given...that truly is not what I would deem normal, and the red flags go up and sirens start blaring. I also thought B.ad had admitted commitment issues, but even he was able to sustain some long term relationships...just unable to commit to marriage.

DeAnna has been down this road before, and Gray and her seem on separate paths, and I don't want her making the same mistake. She is looking for a husband, and Gray has hardly any experience at even being a boyfriend in love. I wish Gray all the best, and hope he is able to see clearly and find his way, and achieve what he is looking for, and be happy. And if he sees that he has issues, he addresses them, so that he can be a loving partner in a relationship that gives him pleasure....and not what feels like difficulty and pain for him now to me....(at least what I see in Fleiss edited version of him! ) Could be as simple as he just wasn't feeling DeAnna at all, and that very well could be. We both essentially want the same things for Gray procheervet....we are just interpreting him differently from what we are being shown. That's all. I think! LOL! Thanks
Karey

[chrisg]

Originally Posted by BachfanNY

I don't think that Graham has commitment problems. I think his problem is completely different.

Graham is an attractive guy, who honestly doesn't have to compete to get a gf. He seems to want exclusive treatment from Deanna and that's just not possible here. So what I see in him is more lacking in maturity than anything else. He's obviously lacking in experience as well and finds himself unsure how to even handle the situation (i.e. holding hands with her one minute, snubbing her the next)

I feel that if it was just De and him, he may be able to commit, but he's in a situation where the other half just can't do that.

MHO- he's sweet and cute, but he's got some growing up to do. Deanna's past that stage and needs someone who is just going to be there for her, that's the bottom line!

I agree with everything you said about maturity but I don't think commitment issues and maturity issues are mutually exclusive in Graham's case. In fact they seem to be fairly well tied together--each feeding the other. When I say I think he is a great guy and will make a good husband at some point it's because I see the potential for him to grow up and grow out of these issues.

But one of the main ways we grow is by being involved in relationships. It's not only how we learn about relationships themselves but how we grow as individuals and discover and identify what it is we want and need out of life and a life partner. It's how we develop those communication and coping skills necessary to build successful and long lasting relationships.

Graham is a long way from this and seems to be caught in a catch-22. He lacks the maturity to commit to a relationship for any length of time and--in doing so--is struggling to move forward in terms of emotional maturity. The reason why this is pretty identifiable for me with Graham is that I've seen a lot of my guy friends wrestle with this process.

Some of them have come out the other side--grown up and unafraid of commitment. And some of them are still in that catch-22 space where they are getting into and discarding relationships rapidly. And I wouldn't set one of my best girlfriends up with these guys while they are still in that middle ground. I would want to protect them just like I feel like DeAnna should steer clear of Graham at this point in his life.

[BachfanNY]

Originally Posted by chrisg

I agree with everything you said about maturity but I don't think commitment issues and maturity issues are mutually exclusive in Graham's case. In fact they seem to be fairly well tied together--each feeding the other. When I say I think he is a great guy and will make a good husband at some point it's because I see the potential for him to grow up and grow out of these issues.

But one of the main ways we grow is by being involved in relationships. It's not only how we learn about relationships themselves but how we grow as individuals and discover and identify what it is we want and need out of life and a life partner. It's how we develop those communication and coping skills necessary to build successful and long lasting relationships.

Graham is a long way from this and seems to be caught in a catch-22. He lacks the maturity to commit to a relationship for any length of time and--in doing so--is struggling to move forward in terms of emotional maturity. The reason why this is pretty identifiable for me with Graham is that I've seen a lot of my guy friends wrestle with this process.

Some of them have come out the other side--grown up and unafraid of commitment. And some of them are still in that catch-22 space where they are getting into and discarding relationships rapidly. And I wouldn't set one of my best girlfriends up with these guys while they are still in that middle ground. I would want to protect them just like I feel like DeAnna should steer clear of Graham at this point in his life.

I do have to agree with this.
I just think that had the circumstance been a bit different, had he not had to deal with other men in her life, he may have learned in time to commit to her. But since he is a bit lacking in experience and maturity, it makes this situation even more difficult for him.

In Graham i see this sweet GUY who needs to grow a little more, Jason and Jeremy, are more like MEN, who just step up to the plate. You know?

[chrisg]

Originally Posted by BachfanNY

I do have to agree with this.
I just think that had the circumstance been a bit different, had he not had to deal with other men in her life, he may have learned in time to commit to her. But since he is a bit lacking in experience and maturity, it makes this situation even more difficult for him.

In Graham i see this sweet GUY who needs to grow a little more, Jason and Jeremy, are more like MEN, who just step up to the plate. You know?

Thanks, BachfanNY, for helping me clarify what I've been trying to say. I've been saying commitment issues without qualifying it. I don't see a George Clooney type of permanent commitment phobe in Graham who will be single in his 40s. He is just very much like a lot of other 20-something guys I know in NYC grappling with issues of commitment and maturity. But some guys have graduated past this process. And you are right. These are the MEN.

And I feel women my age in the 21st Century are very much like DeAnna. We get to a point where we say: 'I want to settle down, I'm ready' and then become quite adept at weeding out those men who are ready from those guys who aren't. If we didn't we'd be single forever. And we get pretty astute at reading the signs and signals before us.

It doesn't make the guys who aren't ready any lesser people than the men who are, but they are at a different place in life. And no woman should subjugate her goals to a man's no matter what chemistry might be there. I've seen girlfriends make that mistake waiting for the guy to grow up, hoping to change him and it has not ended in a fairy tale happy ending for any of them.

DeAnna is ready to get married and needs to choose between the men who have stepped up to the plate and demonstrated that they are ready for that as well. Well said.

[ollie'sgal]

I have not posted here before but I am getting a whole different take on Graham. Deanna is in this to find a husband. Personally, I don't think she would be chasing a guy around who is not that into her.I feel that she picked Jason early on and all this with Graham is to keep everyone guessing. Jason is way too cool about her situations with other men. Maybe because he already knows. Also, I think Jason being a single father is attractive to her. She knows he is looking for a wife and that he is a loving father. He treats her wonderfully. I don't think she would put Jason in the position of watching all this and then choosing him because Graham rejected her. At this point, Jason is marriage material. Graham doesn't appear to be. IMO, Graham has never seemed that interested in her. She is more likely to get her fairytale ending with Jason.

[PiperMaru]

Wow. Just wow. It'll take me the rest of the day to read all these terrific comments.

Question: I'm just about done with this transcript and it's a monster. Does anyone know if there's a word limit per post?

[simplechef]

Yes, I do believe there is a word edit per post...Not sure what it is though... I'd try posting in two sets, if it's too large, it won't allow you to post it.

[procheervet]

Originally Posted by ollie'sgal

I have not posted here before but I am getting a whole different take on Graham. Deanna is in this to find a husband. Personally, I don't think she would be chasing a guy around who is not that into her.I feel that she picked Jason early on and all this with Graham is to keep everyone guessing. Jason is way too cool about her situations with other men. Maybe because he already knows. Also, I think Jason being a single father is attractive to her. She knows he is looking for a wife and that he is a loving father. He treats her wonderfully. I don't think she would put Jason in the position of watching all this and then choosing him because Graham rejected her. At this point, Jason is marriage material. Graham doesn't appear to be. IMO, Graham has never seemed that interested in her. She is more likely to get her fairytale ending with Jason.

I strongly disagree with her being more likely to have her fairytale ending with Jason, maybe Jeremy, a young professional with no strings attached a quick plane ride from her home, but not Jason cross country with everything that comes with. I am not Jason bashing, he appears to be a nice guy, but I doubt when Deanna sat down and considered her dream man she would have said single dad with ex-wife 1500 miles from my family!