Behind the Edit **SPOILERS**

[emusha]

Originally Posted by chrisg

The obvious difference between Jason and Graham is the commitment each seems ready, willing and able to make to DeAnna. Nothing in life is easy but chasing after guys who aren't ready for marriage when you are is hitting your head against an AVOIDABLE brick wall.

Maturity is deciding what you want in life and what you're willing to give up to get it. DeAnna seems to want to get married and ready to give up hitting her head against that brick wall of guys who aren't ready. She also--if she chooses Jason--is willing to give up paths that would undeniably be 'easier' in other ways. In that scenario, however, she is not giving up her goal of marriage but rather expanding it to include Jason's son.

I completely get that you like Graham. He was my favorite the first night for DeAnna. And I still adore him all the same but IMO he is not right for DeAnna b/c I believe that she is ready to get married and he--IMO--painfully, obviously is not.

I see nothing that shows graham as a committment-phobe! he's hurt by De's interaction with other men, yes. he is having trouble deciding how much of his feelings he'll express and having a difficult time expressing himself BUT that has nothing to do with his willingness/lack of willingness to commit. he said i n the first episode he's looking for it...he's thought a lot about it. In the second episode he says its the person that makes love worthwhile and he's seeking that!

[Google]

 

[procheervet]

Originally Posted by KareyR2

Hey procheervet!!
Look, I respect your opinion too...we just disagree is all and see things differently. Certainly I am seeing Grayham through an edited version...but please take into account that all the men are being edited. I find it disheartening at this point to read many people proclaiming a wonderful man like Jason being an F1 by default., because Gray left at F4! Not that you said that in this post, but I am hearing that, and just feel it is so unfair to DeJay, because we haven't even seen those edited scenes yet...and again DeJay are being edited as well, and their very strong emotional and physical connection is being edited as well...but even so, appears to be growing! Fleiss has a story to tell after all. I just have to remind myself of Trista's season, and remember that they were all edited, and as much as I wanted Ryan to be F1, I was stunned when Charlie stepped out of the limo first! So in retrospect.....Gray is not the only one being edited....all the men are, including Jay, so that argument goes both ways! But I digress.....But the edit is taylored to the outcome, I think if Graham had stayed in the game you might be seeing an entirely different "spin" on their interactions, they do not want us to be invested in Graham, therefore the edit is showing us why he is not F1 even with the powerful chemistry, had he been F1, I imagine you would have a whole different take on him right now

I do feel that Gray is probably a wonderful friend and buddy...but his admitted dating history concerns me greatly, and the difficulties he seems to be having in his interactions with DeAnna. This is a man who was a professional athelete so is used to competition, he is a model, so used to cameras and displaying himself! Do I see physical chemistry..yes I do...but sadly, mostly on DeAnna's part. Do I see her trying to get more happening...yes I do. But so far, it is just not happening for me with them, as much as she might want it. I feel she is going to tire of this, and is already frustrated by it, and she is looking elsewhere. When something is right, and good, it is not such difficult work and flows much more naturally, even in this process. JMO though His friends have described him as "quiet", "funny", "not a jerk", etc. so I view this as a bit of shyness and take it from someone who has been in front of a camera, a still shot is one thing, live TV is a whole different animal. You can throw out the bad still shots, but you can't take back what you did on camera.
Regarding your whole argument regarding Grayham and his lack of dating history due to his being a professional athlete, and now his charity work, and he is just too busy etc etc....well that argument just doesn't fly with me either. (I'm truly not trying to be difficult here ) If that argument were the case that one can not have a relationship due to sports or charity work, then we would have no married professional or Olympic athletes, and certainly none with children....and no Unicef workers would be in committed relationships either....and don't even get me started on surgeons and their long working hours! I just don't buy that at all. Gray's dating history is what it is, because of some reason other than that...his friends can put that spin on it if they want, but it doesn't fly with me. I am not saying every athlete, etc. chooses to conduct themselves this way, however, from what I see with my boys, in the gym 2 hours every morning, practicing 2-3 hours every evening, games on the weekend, it would take a very special someone to tolerate that and perhaps it is not a character flaw but just the fact that the very special someone has not presented herself. That coupled with the fact that people who know him personally do not see him as unable to commit, leads me to believe he does not have any "issue" with commitment


Gray seems like a great guy, who doesn't come across as very happy, and a bit gray, edited as he is. For some reason he leaves at F4...whether he asked to go, it was mutual, or DeDe asked him to go....he is gone. If there was something there besides the physical connection and they BOTH felt it, and it was more than she was feeling with the F3, I would think he would still be there. For some reason he isn't....and if he chose to leave...he didn't see her worth fighting for, difficult "process" or not. I want Gray happy...I don't really think he is. Hopefully with viewing the show, he will have a better understanding if he has issues, what they are, and will seek help for them. I see a conflicted man with issues....and I really hope for the best for him. And thus far I am seeing Jason as a rock solid F1, DESERVEDLY SO...not default or anything else. But this is just MHO of this edited show for all participants! Thanks The guys seem to have said he was a great guy, funny, personable, I just think we are not seeing that. Again, I think it is presumptous to assume he has "issues" just because of what Fleiss wants us to see. As far as the whole Jason thing, lets just say that I have reason to believe that had Graham stayed, he was F1 and leave it at that.
Sorry for the length.
Karey

Love sparring with you!

[jelle]

Originally Posted by procheervet

I wonder if HWSNBN regrets not dating for a week and breaking it off now that he has felt the wrath! LOL!

Nope Not for a minute I am sure everytime he watches the show he is thankful of the decision he made.
And his name is Brad.

Although there were 25 guys on the show, it does not mean 25 guys wanted to end up with Deanna or even that they all liked her - no matter what they say or what the editing says. Perhaps they could all be friends with her, but to assume that all of them are going to be enamoured with her is not realistic. Perhaps Graham simply did not like her well enough to fake it. Perhaps she really did not like any of them well enough to carry on a lasting relationship, but she does not have the luxury of going home.

She does choose the guy who will take the most effort and work on her part to make things work. She is committing to the guy who is in a stable job with a child in a far-away location. Choosing Jason is frought with difficulties no matter how much they are attracted. There were others who would have been much easier

But then perhaps she does choose Jesse

[nennie]

Originally Posted by jelle

Nope Not for a minute I am sure everytime he watches the show he is thankful of the decision he made.

And his name is Brad.

Thanks Jelle...I agree his name is Brad.

[angelic_one2002]

Originally Posted by jelle

Nope Not for a minute I am sure everytime he watches the show he is thankful of the decision he made.

And his name is Brad.

I couldn't agree more, jelle.

[chrisg]

Originally Posted by emusha

I see nothing that shows graham as a committment-phobe! he's hurt by De's interaction with other men, yes. he is having trouble deciding how much of his feelings he'll express and having a difficult time expressing himself BUT that has nothing to do with his willingness/lack of willingness to commit. he said i n the first episode he's looking for it...he's thought a lot about it. In the second episode he says its the person that makes love worthwhile and he's seeking that!

Words are one thing but a person's actions show you who they are and what they're about. I don't know a single guy who is officially pushing 30 and has never even had a six month relationship. Not a single one! You have to do some serious work to avoid it at that age, IMO. And didn't he say that the five month relationship was only just recently? What was the average duration of his relationships before that? In the dozen or so years from teenage dating age to the age of 28?

You seem to have some idealized notion of him as this shy, retiring, deeply profound soul that just hasn't met the ONE and is deeply scarred by the realization that there is actually competition on this show. And yet none of his other ventures in life--from the basketball to investing in bars to moving to NYC (this is from a fellow New Yorker by the way)--back up his being shy or afraid of competition in the slightest.

And the behavior he is demonstrating on the show only reinforces that he is a person who is not risk averse in general but avoids opportunities for intimacy and relationship building with women. That is what I have seen of Graham play out before me. And plenty of guys have gone on this show TALKING about finding their soulmate and being ready to settle down with the ONE. Does the name Jesse Palmer ring a bell?

I like Graham and think he's a great guy that will make a good husband some day--just not any time soon.

[emusha]

Originally Posted by chrisg

Words are one thing but a person's actions show you who they are and what they're about. I don't know a single guy who is officially pushing 30 and has never even had a six month relationship. Not a single one! You have to do some serious work to avoid it at that age, IMO. And didn't he say that the five month relationship was only just recently? What was the average duration of his relationships before that? In the dozen or so years from teenage dating age to the age of 28?

You seem to have some idealized notion of him as this shy, retiring, deeply profound soul that just hasn't met the ONE and is deeply scarred by the realization that there is actually competition on this show. And yet none of his other ventures in life--from the basketball to charity work to moving to NYC (this is from a fellow New Yorker by the way)--back up his being shy or afraid of competition in the slightest.

And the behavior he is demonstrating on the show only reinforces that he is a person who is not risk averse in general but avoids opportunities for intimacy and relationship building with women. That is what I have seen of Graham play out before me. And plenty of guys have gone on this show TALKING about finding their soulmate and being ready to settle down with the ONE. Does the name Jesse Palmer ring a bell?

I like Graham and think he's a great guy that will make a good husband some day--just not any time soon.

you have good points, I don't deny...BUT IMO I doubt he's shy or afraid of competition. Though from what he says and does I think he has difficulty expressing himself verbally and he is insecure about how De feels about him as compared to other guys.
there are many reasons he may not have had long relationships
1. he was living and working in germany focusing on basket ball
2. has led an athletic life and had limited time that he can commit to a relationship
3. he may not be allowing himself to take things father with someone if he knows that they are not 'the one' - that's just a matter of being true to himself
4. he'd had to move around a lot for bball

on the other hand:
- he has expressed a desire to find love and for marriage. I don't think we can make a judgment call on his personality as a commitment-phobe just from what we have seen. JMO

[Bichonlady]

I think that DeAnna felt an immediate physical attraction to Graham. He felt some attraction to her, othrwise he would not be on the show. But as DeAnna got more and more involved, he is pulling back. On their first 1 on 1 he said that he had just broken up with his SO, his one and only 5 month relationship. He thought they were headed towards marriage. I think he is not totally over his girlfriend, can't picture anyone taking her place yet. Maybe he went on the show to have some fun and some interesting dates, but his heart just is not in it. DeAnna's interest just scares him.

[procheervet]

Originally Posted by emusha

you have good points, I don't deny...BUT IMO I doubt he's shy or afraid of competition. Though from what he says and does I think he has difficulty expressing himself verbally and he is insecure about how De feels about him as compared to other guys.
there are many reasons he may not have had long relationships
1. he was living and working in germany focusing on basket ball
2. has led an athletic life and had limited time that he can commit to a relationship
3. he may not be allowing himself to take things father with someone if he knows that they are not 'the one' - that's just a matter of being true to himself
4. he'd had to move around a lot for bball

on the other hand:
- he has expressed a desire to find love and for marriage. I don't think we can make a judgment call on his personality as a commitment-phobe just from what we have seen. JMO

Thank you.

[nennie]

Originally Posted by procheervet

Perhaps that was taken the wrong way, what I meant was this ongoing blasting that he is taking could have been avoided by just choosing one woman, even if he actually told them, look, this is just for the show, we will date briefly and then go our separate ways, he could have saved himself a great deal of public scrutiny.

If he was being true to hisself and felt nothing long term with either one then he made the right decision. By the way i disagreed with him about it but looking back now I understand even more why he didn't. I think we forget he was the one in the fray of the show not us and he knew a lot more about each of the ladies than we did. Just throwing this out there what if Deanna does the same thing?