Body, Lip and Facial Communication - Bachelorette 4 **SPOILERS**

[Shannonm93]

Originally Posted by nennie

Don't ever under estimate the power of Fleiss. He is not above taking Jason to F2 and him being dumped. One thing I have learned about this show is that no one is ever safe except for Shayne(JMO). I don't trust his editing.

I don't underestimate the power of Fleiss, but in the end who is the one left standing isn't his choice - its De's. Also, I may be completely wrong here, but I think if De does choose Jason then this may very well be something that they both insisted on Fleiss doing, i.e., keeping it low key to keep Jason's son out of the spotlight. Jason is a good father and I can see him doing this. I know if I were in the situation I would. And knowing how important Ty is to Jason, I would think De would agree and back Jason up on this, thus leaving Fleiss with very little choice in the matter. Like I said before, maybe I am giving Fleiss a little too much credit, but this is absolutely what I believe. Thanks!

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[albean99]

I'm sorry but Fleiss has no redeeming qualities when it comes to what he does and doesn't show. It's all about the drama. I'm not sure how not showing Jason & Dee more has anything to do with Ty's feelings anyway. He wouldn't be watching the show if he were my child but then I wouldn't go on the show if I were a single parent of a 3 yr old. The other thing is they sign a contract that basically gives all of the power to the producers. That they gave him a chance to call his kid was probably because they wanted to use it more than being nice.

[procheervet]

Agreed, Fleiss is all about the ratings and spares no one in the pursuit of them. I doubt he would have any reservations about using a child - particularly since the demographic is a female viewership, he is sucking us in! He needs to show us any tidbit of romance or passion he can find at this point for his F1 to make this whole season believable. Any tiny little detail from this point forward will be blown up tenfold to support his "fairy tale ending".

[MiGirl374]

Originally Posted by albean99

I'm sorry but Fleiss has no redeeming qualities when it comes to what he does and doesn't show. It's all about the drama. I'm not sure how not showing Jason & Dee more has anything to do with Ty's feelings anyway. He wouldn't be watching the show if he were my child but then I wouldn't go on the show if I were a single parent of a 3 yr old. The other thing is they sign a contract that basically gives all of the power to the producers. That they gave him a chance to call his kid was probably because they wanted to use it more than being nice.

Oooh, ouch! I bet you're right. I didn't even think of that possibility, but from what I'm reading, it seems very likely that's what's going on.

I never realized how these reality shows are behind the scenes till I started coming to this forum and read how Fleiss works. It's a wonder anyone goes on these shows.

[StanleyCupCanes]

Originally Posted by procheervet

Agreed, Fleiss is all about the ratings and spares no one in the pursuit of them. I doubt he would have any reservations about using a child - particularly since the demographic is a female viewership, he is sucking us in! He needs to show us any tidbit of romance or passion he can find at this point for his F1 to make this whole season believable. Any tiny little detail from this point forward will be blown up tenfold to support his "fairy tale ending".

So, are you saying that you think Jason is the F1? I agree that he is tugging at the heartstrings with the Ty footage and references but I think that is only occurring because Jason is the one selected and much of the filming happened after the fact as evidenced by Jason's intro clip.

[Shannonm93]

Well thanks for all of your comments (and I actually do agree with what most of you said about Fleiss), but I'm still sticking by what I said as I believe that Jason & De would do everything in their power to make sure that Ty wasn't put in the spotlight once it was revealed that Jason was her pick (and like I said I think there is a huge difference between just being the child of a contestant and being the child of the person she actually chooses). I guess we will all just have to agree to disagree on this one. Thanks again!

[procheervet]

Originally Posted by StanleyCupCanes

So, are you saying that you think Jason is the F1? I agree that he is tugging at the heartstrings with the Ty footage and references but I think that is only occurring because Jason is the one selected and much of the filming happened after the fact as evidenced by Jason's intro clip.

With the evidence we are being given, obviously it is either Jason or Jesse, if you are asking do I believe either one of them should be F1, not really, but one of them obviously is, so, in a nutshell, we will be given an edit by Fleiss to lead us to believe this is a fairy tale ending.

[nennie]

Originally Posted by procheervet

Agreed, Fleiss is all about the ratings and spares no one in the pursuit of them. I doubt he would have any reservations about using a child - particularly since the demographic is a female viewership, he is sucking us in! He needs to show us any tidbit of romance or passion he can find at this point for his F1 to make this whole season believable. Any tiny little detail from this point forward will be blown up tenfold to support his "fairy tale ending".

Thanks albean and procheervet that is what I was trying to say. Fleiss is being Fleiss and that will never change. I would say his opinion is if you don't want to do it my way don't sign up.

[MiGirl374]

I apologize if this has already been discussed but it's something new to me so I wanted to put it out there and see what you guys think.

I was watching the past episodes over the past few days (fast forwarding through some scenes) and couldn't help but notice something. (This is just an observation, I'm not saying what I think it means because I’m not sure. lol) The way DeAnna hugs the guys at RCs.

I remember reading somewhere that when someone hugs another person with a bear hug, it means, "I don't want to let you go", but I question that now because of what I saw in the RCs. Each one I watched, she gave bear hugs to nearly every guy – and always to the ones she sent home. Not once did I see her give a bear hug to Jeremy and only once did she give a bear hug to Graham (and that was this past week when she was upset with him. LOL). When she hugs Jeremy and Graham (with the exception of this past week with Graham), she puts one arm over their shoulder and the other she kind of curls up or she just puts her hand on his side or something, but she doesn’t wrap both arms around Graham and Jeremy like she does all the other guys. If body language speaks more than words, I would think this means something, wouldn’t it? What it’s saying I don’t know, but it must say something. LOL

In the May 26th episode (the one when she went on the 1-1 with Graham and to the ball field with the other guys), she gave Jeremy one of the three roses, Graham got one at his 1-1 and I somehow missed when she gave Paul his rose. When she gave the rose to Jeremy, they were sitting so she kind of put her arm around him, but I don’t put too much stock in this one because of how they were sitting. (She did kiss him on the cheek a time or two and kissed Graham after she gave him his rose on their date.) All of the following guys got bear hugs at the RC: Ron, Jesse, Robert, Jason, Fred, Sean, Richard, Twilley, *Eric, *Chris, *Ryan. (*means they were sent home.)

During the June 2nd episode, Twilley, Jeremy, Brian, Graham, Sean were hugged with one arm, while Jesse, *Paul and *Ron were given bear hugs. Jason was given a bear hug when he received his rose on their 1-1 date, but I don’t remember seeing the other guys get their “1 of 3” roses she gave out.

During the June 9th episode, Jason, Twilley, Graham, and *Brian got bear hugs, Jeremy didn’t appear to get a hug but it’s hard to tell because of how it was shown. Then again, this was the week that she was so upset with Graham (the whole “no kiss” thing) as well as most of the other guys (party issue) and let *Fred and *Robert go on their 2-1 date.

I'm only talking about RC hugs, not hugs in general. I didn’t have time to watch every minute of every episode, I did pay special attention to the scenes where she’s giving roses to the 3 individuals and the RC itself. I find it interesting that the only one at RCs she never gives bear hugs to is Jeremy and the ones she sends home always get bear hugs. I would think if there's any time you'd be hugging someone and "not wanting to let them go" it would be during a RC, wouldn't it? Meaning if you don’t want someone to go and they are getting a rose that night, then they would be the ones getting the bear hugs, not the guys she’s sending home, right? Can someone explain what this body language is telling us? It’s been consistent through each episode so it seems significant to me, I’m just not sure what it means exactly. Has anyone else noticed this?

Another thing I’ve noticed, but only recently so not sure how many it applies to or how often it applies to Jeremy, but she seems to hug Jeremy (not at RCs now, this time I’m talking about hugs in general) with her arms around his neck. I remember one in particular where she was the first one to raise her arms so I know it was her deciding how the hug would be received. I’m not sure about the others I’ve seen though. I don’t remember who reached out to who first. In my mind, and this is only my very biased opinion LOL, I would think if anything, hugging someone around the neck is sending more of a “I don’t want to let you go” message than the bear hug. Not only because of the fact that she’s given bear hugs to every guy she’s sent home so far, but when I think of seeing people at the airport, when they see their loved ones, they wrap their arms around their loved one’s neck and hold on tight.

My husband was leaving for his business trip this morning and something jumped out at me as I hugged him… I hugged him around the neck and found myself thinking, “I don’t want to let you go!” Then it hit me… DeAnna hugs Jeremy this way. LOL (Ok so I’m a little too obsessed with the Bachelorette this season, what can I say? LOL)

Anyway… just curious what all of you have to say about this.

[Capegal]

Originally Posted by Shannonm93

Well thanks for all of your comments (and I actually do agree with what most of you said about Fleiss), but I'm still sticking by what I said as I believe that Jason & De would do everything in their power to make sure that Ty wasn't put in the spotlight once it was revealed that Jason was her pick (and like I said I think there is a huge difference between just being the child of a contestant and being the child of the person she actually chooses). I guess we will all just have to agree to disagree on this one. Thanks again!

I do believe that there are some legal protective measures regarding Ty - as he is a minor child - and that Jason has taken steps regarding what can and cannot be filmed by Fleiss and Co. There have been several contestants in the past who have had children that we never even knew about or saw. I doubt very much that Jason would sign away all of the rights regarding photographing/taping his son - some would certainly be reserved for his decision.