Graham **SPOILERS**

[pajamasam]

I cant imagine how any first date, in front of an entire camera crew that is 7 feet away, could be anything but awkward. I honestly dont know how they do it. So I guess I agree that the awkwardness is not a barometer of attraction at this point. Contestants have said that by the end they dont even notice the cameras anymore but I dont think they are at that stage yet.

[Google]

 

[double_standard]

Originally Posted by anxieuse

Let's not forget that we only saw 10-15 minutes from a whole day spent together. However, from those 10 minutes you can tell that the whole day did not pan out the way DeAnna expected it probably. If they got into those relationship conversations all day long, that would be a turn off for anybody. They did not seem relaxed or having a good time at all. I don't think the chemistry is there. Though, he does seem to be a sweet person.

As it was mentioned before the VO is setting us up for Graham's exit already.

I think, DeAnna's problem coming into this, is that she thaught everybody was already in love with her and she would have to pick from that pool.

I don't think so...

While I agree with what you say about Deanna I completely disagree with your thoughts and the general concensus about Graham.

Fliess is fitting Graham into his story and giving Graham the same "false role" of the reluctant suiter, the one who is unsure, who cannot commit, who opens up too late, etc. etc. etc. It's the same "false role" he boxed Bettina and Amanda into. And he's done it so much lately that it's now very obvious to me.

I saw a lot of playful interaction and touching between Graham and Deanna that was only shown in filler scenes because Fleiss couldn't let Graham look like he's interested. Granted Graham did walk out of the mansion and immediately start to put his hands into his pockets in his typically shy way, but once Deanna reached for his arm he immediately grabbed her hand and they entwined fingers. The car scenes with Graham playfully touching Deanna while she's driving and being completely expressive and open sure don't look like a guy who has relationship or intimacy problems. They also looked very happy and playful on the beach together. But of course every time Graham reached for Deanna Fleiss would cut away. The whole fireside scene is definitely spliced and diced to make it look as cold as possible. Graham is boxed into Fleiss's story line and we'll obviously never see what connection they did have.

I do think Graham is basically shy but he's a long way from having relationship or intimacy problems. Great job Fleiss. I'm sure Graham is none too happy today and I hope he's given you or one of your minions a good piece of his mind!

Editing to add Yay!! I'm very glad to see Graham's friend probably post at the same time and say the same thing!!

[yeisha]

Originally Posted by probably

Dang, it was one date in which you probably only saw five minutes of filiming. Im pretty sure you saw what they wanted you to see. if not, whats the point in a story line. Im not totally sure you can form any type of real judgement based on chemistry or whatever it may be. Personally, given the situation, I thought it was handled very well, and knowing graham the way i do, I didnt see anything that i wouldnt expect. If there wasnt chemistry there, A. he wouldnt have gotten asked on the date, B. he wouldnt have gotten the rose. C. she wouldnt have wanted to see him again D. he wouldnt have gotten the first kiss. Just my opinion.

ITA. Fleiss and co. will show us what they want us to see to fit the storyline. For all we know, they were probably so much more comfortable around each other, but since they are already building up a story for his F4 departure, naturally they'd pick those scenes that Dede and Graham seemed 'closed off' to each other. JMHO.

[probably]

Also. Correct me if im wrong. I didnt see her act the way she did toward graham toward any of the other guys. could just be me, but i doubt it. Btw. graham is probably one of the least shy people I know or have met. polite yes, shy no. but then again, what you may consider shy and what i may consider shy may be two different things.

[goldie2]

Originally Posted by probably

Dang, it was one date in which you probably only saw five minutes of filiming. Im pretty sure you saw what they wanted you to see. if not, whats the point in a story line. Im not totally sure you can form any type of real judgement based on chemistry or whatever it may be. Personally, given the situation, I thought it was handled very well, and knowing graham the way i do, I didnt see anything that i wouldnt expect. If there wasnt chemistry there, A. he wouldnt have gotten asked on the date, B. he wouldnt have gotten the rose. C. she wouldnt have wanted to see him again D. he wouldnt have gotten the first kiss. Just my opinion.

It is nice to have input from someone who knows him,probably.Seems like a great guy and I definitely agree with all you said,there was mutual attraction..LOTS..but of course it is being edited to look like there wasn't as to give credibilty to his early departure...
Personally,I thought it was a great date..even with the editing..showed a realistic first date.fun,playful...Maybe had a few too many serious questions by Dee ...seems really afraid of getting hurt again. ...

[Capegal]

My first reaction to Graham last night was - ''shy - my foot'' - conversationally he was fairly engaged with Dee - but - other than that - he was not engaged with her at all - in any kind of close way - he interacted with her with the kite time - but when talking with her - can't even say TO her - he was on another planet - seemed to keep his distance - kept looking/staring away from her.

I know he may have been a bit shaken up with the very direct manner in which Dee is approaching this - she has only sooo much time to get thru the bull and to the nitty-gritty of things - maybe he is not used to a gal taking the hard road like she did - and was put off by it - not sure - will have to see.

[DinD]

Originally Posted by Capegal

My first reaction to Graham last night was - ''shy - my foot'' - conversationally he was fairly engaged with Dee - but - other than that - he was not engaged with her at all - in any kind of close way - he interacted with her with the kite time - but when talking with her - can't even say TO her - he was on another planet - seemed to keep his distance - kept looking/staring away from her.

I know he may have been a bit shaken up with the very direct manner in which Dee is approaching this - she has only sooo much time to get thru the bull and to the nitty-gritty of things - maybe he is not used to a gal taking the hard road like she did - and was put off by it - not sure - will have to see.

I was feeling the same thing and I was thinking "is this date ever going to end?" I could not believe those two did not know how to fly a kite. If you can't get a kite to fly on a beach . . .

[anxieuse]

Originally Posted by probably

Dang, it was one date in which you probably only saw five minutes of filiming. Im pretty sure you saw what they wanted you to see. if not, whats the point in a story line. Im not totally sure you can form any type of real judgement based on chemistry or whatever it may be. Personally, given the situation, I thought it was handled very well, and knowing graham the way i do, I didnt see anything that i wouldnt expect. If there wasnt chemistry there, A. he wouldnt have gotten asked on the date, B. he wouldnt have gotten the rose. C. she wouldnt have wanted to see him again D. he wouldnt have gotten the first kiss. Just my opinion.

Probably you have a valid point in the editing part, however, if they had a great chemistry, no matter how you edit it will shine through. Not in this case, IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I had my bet on Graham as F1 from the first moment I saw him, I am in his camp, and I think he handled it very well, I agree. And I also thaught that she was drooling over him in the first episode, but sorry, I did not see that fire during the date. I might be wrong of course, but I usually, I am not.

I do not expect anybody to be all over their date on their first date, so I am not critisizing Graham, he was more then a gentleman and lovely on the date, IMO, like I said, I think the problem is DeAnna who is expecting the guys to be drooling all over her right away.

As for the rose part, of course she was going to give him a rose, he is lovely, good looking and she wants to keep him longer.

[Bloomers]

Originally Posted by anxieuse

Probably you have a valid point in the editing part, however, if they had a great chemistry, no matter how you edit it will shine through. Not in this case, IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I had my bet on Graham as F1 from the first moment I saw him, I am in his camp, and I think he handled it very well, I agree. And I also thaught that she was drooling over him in the first episode, but sorry, I did not see that fire during the date. I might be wrong of course, but I usually, I am not.

I do not expect anybody to be all over their date on their first date, so I am not critisizing Graham, he was more then a gentleman and lovely on the date, IMO, like I said, I think the problem is DeAnna who is expecting the guys to be drooling all over her right away.As for the rose part, of course she was going to give him a rose, he is lovely, good looking and she wants to keep him longer.

See, I don't see this at all. In my mind she let us all see her vulnerability when she stated the remark about at the end the guy would say, "Thanks for the ride." How in the world could we interpret that whole part of the conversation as thinking she is over-confident that all the guys will be in love with her and ready to be F1? I think at that time, a part of her was very much running scared that she could get dumped again.
What I sensed is that, yes, she is excited and encouraged that the 25 are there for her to start with, but she didn't see any of them as a sure fire done deal.

I don't know what that edited picture is where she says that she thinks Graham is falling for her as it doesn't fit in with the rest of what went on, and I think that is part of the rest of an answer to a producer prompt that we don't hear and is taken out of context.

[anxieuse]

Originally Posted by double_standard

While I agree with what you say about Deanna I completely disagree with your thoughts and the general concensus about Graham.

Fliess is fitting Graham into his story and giving Graham the same "false role" of the reluctant suiter, the one who is unsure, who cannot commit, who opens up too late, etc. etc. etc. It's the same "false role" he boxed Bettina and Amanda into. And he's done it so much lately that it's now very obvious to me.

I saw a lot of playful interaction and touching between Graham and Deanna that was only shown in filler scenes because Fleiss couldn't let Graham look like he's interested. Granted Graham did walk out of the mansion and immediately start to put his hands into his pockets in his typically shy way, but once Deanna reached for his arm he immediately grabbed her hand and they entwined fingers. The car scenes with Graham playfully touching Deanna while she's driving and being completely expressive and open sure don't look like a guy who has relationship or intimacy problems. They also looked very happy and playful on the beach together. But of course every time Graham reached for Deanna Fleiss would cut away. The whole fireside scene is definitely spliced and diced to make it look as cold as possible. Graham is boxed into Fleiss's story line and we'll obviously never see what connection they did have.

I do think Graham is basically shy but he's a long way from having relationship or intimacy problems. Great job Fleiss. I'm sure Graham is none too happy today and I hope he's given you or one of your minions a good piece of his mind!

Editing to add Yay!! I'm very glad to see Graham's friend probably post at the same time and say the same thing!!

I never said Graham had intimacy issues or relationship issues, far from it, I think they took the one very serious relationship he was reffering to and ran with it as an only relationship to portray him as unstable. I do not think he is unstable or has intimacy issues at all. And I do agree that he was very playfull at the beginning with her, but not so much at the end. As a matter of fact, if you watch it again, look at the last scene, after they come back, he approached to kiss her, she slightly turned her cheek. That's what I mean when I say I did not see the fire between them.

By the way, I really loved it when he said "it's flattering that you are sitting there" and "if I can't get you close on a firelit beach then we're not going to do well" or something to that effect. He was very really charming.