Vienna

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sdl;3849773;

***************
Very fair, and well said. Thanks Sweetpea.
But I am having problems with the Pastor story among others..

---

I'm having problems with the pastor story as well - but I am trying to chalk it up to MF, his crew, and the story board if there is indeed one. It all goes back to edit or storyline. I can almost guarantee you that Vienna was not supposed to be even near the F1 - Jake had other ideas and to heck with MF. He even indicated as much on one of the many interviews they gave this week. I read between the lines, particularly when he mentioned that the producers were trying to lead him to Tenley because she was the favored one by the audience. He tried, but he just could not/would not do it. He went where his "heart" was telling him to go (if you believe that) and it was with Vienna. I even remember CH on the AFRC saying Jake did his own thing, throwing them (production) a loop when he disposed of 4 in the same day/RC. The two on the 2-1 date, then the extra one at the RC that week. Yes, I believe Jake was a yes man to MF, but just so far - when it was going to affect his final ending - then he balked big time. Did it his way. Remember, this show finished shooting just before Thanksgiving last year. This gave MF and his editing crew until January to edit as negatively as they wanted to edit to throw V under the bus, Jake somewhat under the bus, to glorify Ali, to basically reshape the show as they saw fit. Just my opinion, and I really play devil's advocate with myself over this who season. One day I believe I see it one way, then something else surfaces, and I see it another way. Sorry for the long rant but I've wanted to say this for some time now. Nothing on this show is as to appears in the edit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sdl;3849827;

***********
Well, the truth, as investigated and reported by numerous publications including Us Weekly, is that the boy's father was not a Pastor or church official, and she invented the story to appeal to Jake.
So the kid's father either is or is not a Pastor, right?
Bring me evidence, anyone, that he is a church Pastor and I will never post again. Not one more time. Just prove that he was a pastor, and you are rid of me forever.
But, otherwise, let's stick to the facts.

---

Ok so instead of a pastors son it was a kid at church? Is that the only difference? If so, doesn't change the story at all in my mind. I didn't have a favorite but to me it doesn't matter who the kids Dad was.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiggerlgh;3849822;

I know you are just talking about the Vienna Jealousy comment. But in 3 months Ali will be in love with at least 2 guys right before she chooses 1 and months later one of her bachelors will do the same...its the show.

---

I have watched every season and I don't recall any lead ever being so emphatic how much they loved the other girls. Yes they would hear "I love Charlie, we have so much fun together." Yada yada & "I love Ryan, he is so sweet" ... but after the show was over, the lead would say they knew all along who they wanted, or they decided he/she was the one for me at the hometown. For goodness sake, Jake had to get 2 rings because he was undecided the night before. And at the WTA his deep sigh, "Oh Ali, why couldn't you have called earlier" .... Jake just seemed so much more torn than any other bachelor... (okay I guess Jason gets the cake... but we know what happened there)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bonbonlover;3849834;

I have watched every season and I don't recall any lead ever being so emphatic how much they loved the other girls. Yes they would hear "I love Charlie, we have so much fun together." Yada yada & "I love Ryan, he is so sweet" ... but after the show was over, the lead would say they knew all along who they wanted, or they decided he/she was the one for me at the hometown. For goodness sake, Jake had to get 2 rings because he was undecided the night before. And at the WTA his deep sigh, "Oh Ali, why couldn't you have called earlier" .... Jake just seemed so much more torn than any other bachelor... (okay I guess Jason gets the cake... but we know what happened there)

---

Yes but I think that was the edit. They didn't want us to know if he picked anyone, it was that way the whole season in interviews to the lack of any ring fingers etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiggerlgh;3849832;

Ok so instead of a pastors son it was a kid at church? Is that the only difference? If so, doesn't change the story at all in my mind. I didn't have a favorite but to me it doesn't matter who the kids Dad was.

---

Yes, it does make a difference ... it touches the core of her honesty .... if she's lying about this then what else is she lying about? This doesn't reflect well on her character.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sdl;3849827;

***********
Well, the truth, as investigated and reported by numerous publications including Us Weekly, is that the boy's father was not a Pastor or church official, and she invented the story to appeal to Jake.
So the kid's father either is or is not a Pastor, right?
Bring me evidence, anyone, that he is a church Pastor and I will never post again. Not one more time. Just prove that he was a pastor, and you are rid of me forever.
But, otherwise, let's stick to the facts.

---

So are you saying it is a fact that he was not a Pastor based on the publications including US Weekly? If so, I hardly think it being published that he was not a pastor in these publications is an irrefutable fact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sdl;3849827;

***********
Well, the truth, as investigated and reported by numerous publications including Us Weekly, is that the boy's father was not a Pastor or church official, and she invented the story to appeal to Jake.
So the kid's father either is or is not a Pastor, right?
Bring me evidence, anyone, that he is a church Pastor and I will never post again. Not one more time. Just prove that he was a pastor, and you are rid of me forever.
But, otherwise, let's stick to the facts.

---

I am not trying to be factious, but do you really think that people believe everything they read in USWeekly? Or for that matter any "tabloid"??? The facts are distorted to fit the scenario the rag is trying to create. Same goes with the show, they are going to tell us a story and it is up to us to believe it or not. They certainly do take liberties, otherwise the majority of us would fall asleep or turn the channel. That is the beauty of all this, the facts are what we make of them. I have yet to concretely concur with anything anyone has posted here as fact, unless it was proven that they personally knew the person in question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peacheater;3849815;

[edit]

Vienna is an alpha female, and dangerous to her core.

---

I always smile, but confess to being a little puzzled, how a women who is considered an "alpha female" is dangerous to her core, but a man who is an alpha male is often considered focused and strong. Not saying you feel this way, Peacheater since you didn't reference alpha males, but that's where my mind went when I read your comment. It's like strong women are often labelled "b*tches" whereas strong men are often admired. Happens all the time in business and even in the entertainment scene.

Funnily enough, I think Ali and Vienna were both fighting for "alpha female" status in this house full of women, much more so than any of the other girls there. So if they are both competitive and consider themselves alpha, are they both dangerous to the core? Would we have used the same words to describe Ali? Perhaps. I can't help but think that she would be described as focused, driven, strong rather than dangerous. JMHO as always! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gruder;3849840;

I am not trying to be factious, but do you really believe everything you read in USWeekly? Or for that matter any "tabloid"??? The facts are distorted to fit the scenario the rag is trying to create. Same goes with the show, they are going to tell us a story and it is up to us to believe it or not. They certainly do take liberties, otherwise the majority of us would fall asleep or turn the channel. That is the beauty of all this, the facts are what we make of them. I have yet to concretely concur with anything anyone has posted here as fact, unless it was proven that they personally knew the person in question.

---

Actually, I recall someone posting on another board right after the episode aired where Vienna discussed the "pastor's son", who claimed to know the guy in question and said his father was definitely not a pastor. Again, not proof of anything other than that Vienna's claim is being refuted by at least 2 different sources.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peacheater;3849815;

[edit]

I see nothing in Jake or Vienna to admire; they are not role models except in the negative sense. I've seen hundreds, perhaps thousands of fake smiles in hundreds of courtrooms in my career. Jake's smile is nearly always manufactured. Body language always tells me a lot about someone's insecurities and Jake exhibits many traits that turn trial attorneys into bloodthirsty predators. Vienna's demeanor, however, is chameleon. She has an engaging smile, and while it is sometimes "manufactured," it represents her careful calculation of any situation in which she finds herself. As is the case with Jillian Harris, Vienna is an alpha female, and dangerous to her core. In a courtroom, I'd expect her instincts to lean to self-preservation rather than truth. I would expect nothing different from her in any media interview. These may be traits some admire.

I'm no expert on TV by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm closely related to someone who is one of the most knowledgeable experts on reality TV and Hollywood. I trust his opinion. He has been telling me for weeks that Vienna is very much like many young "actresses" who came to Hollywood in the late '50s and '60s: no talent and few prospects, but with the "smarts" and willingness to do whatever is necessary to succeed. When Jake is history, which will likely be soon, Vienna will probably have moved on to another opportunity. When the engagement ends, it would not surprise me to see her dating one of Hollywood's bad boys.

---

Great post, and I completely agree with your read of Vienna and Jake. Vienna said and did exactly what was required to "win", including the fake Pastor's son story. Jake is just in a honeymoom, sex-overload phase. Jake is just a rung (the bottom rung) of Vienna's ladder from public anonymity to public notoriety. She's probably already set her sights on a Playboy spread, if not a spot on "The Girls Next Door".