Vienna

[sdl]

It's all about perception, SDL. Some people see the things about Vienna that have been highlighted negatively as deal-breakers. Others say, not that big a deal. I have said before, and I'll say again, ALL of us have aspects of our pasts and even our present that, if exposed and inflamed and even twisted due to the nature of the internet and message boards, would be considered by others out there as negative, and I guess we could expect some of the same treatment V. has gotten. BUT there are others who, having perhaps shared some of the same experiences, and who aren't in any position to judge, would sympathize with us and say "hey, that's not so bad, he/she seems like a nice person."

It's not making excuses, it's coming at it from a different perspective. And it's as valid as any other opinion out there. And frankly, I do think the pictures of Jake and Vienna lately have been cute. They seem happy, so I appreciate seeing pictures of them like that.

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Very fair, and well said. Thanks Sweetpea.
But I am having problems with the Pastor story among others..

[ironcat]

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Funny, and a legitimate question.
I tried, honestly, I really tried to just forget about it and move on....but every day I read something that made my blood boil.
It's a thousand little things, but my breaking point was probably 3 main facts:
a) when I found out that the guy who Vienna dated for 4 years - the son of the "Pastor" - that this kid's Dad was not in any way a church official or minister, and the other girls recounted how she invented the story as a way to fool Jake, and
b) all the smarmy talk about how much they have sex, how he doesn't want to get off of her, chases her around naked, and finally
c) the pair of them throwing the other girls under the bus, "they were just jealous," while Vienna claims she is great friends with these girls who have said they don't want anything more to do with her.
You see, the difference is that I don't think that expressing my extreme disappointment with these two based on the facts that we now know is "bashing."
It is accepting reality. And these are not people, based on everything we know, who in the real world would earn my respect, or would even get a passing glance.Others don't care who they are, or make excuses for them, and think their pictures are adorable. I can't avoid seeing them in context.

ITA. As far as I am concerned, neither Vienna nor Jake have accomplished anything to earn my respect, or to merit the effusive praise they now seem to be getting. I have known plenty of young adults in their 20's and early 30's with much more to recommend them, and the thought that this pair of dolts may be looked at by some as role models (and Vienna thinks she is qualified for "motivational speaking") is actually rather horrifying.

[echo226]

I don't like or dislike Vienna. I don't know her. I do know that in the post-show situation, Jake rubs me the wrong way, and Vienna (except for the giggles) presents pretty well.

On the show Vienna was the villain that nobody liked and this is what we saw. If this was all editing and in real life she's a charming sweetheart who everybody likes, then there is absolutely nothing REAL about this reality show! Jake saw the wonderful person she is and proposed to her, but nobody else did because they didn't let the audience see this? There is something very wrong with this story if the audience isn't allowed to see the characters evolve, but they want us to think happy ending/love story ? They have left most people thinking Jake is just a horndog and Vienna fills his needs in that area. This all makes no sense to me whatsoever.

[Bloomers]

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In any context, "they are just jealous of me" always comes across as the most disingenuous, weak, conceited and delusional of excuses for almost everyone you come into contact with hating you.
If my kid tried that one out on me, I wouldn't hesitate before saying - "Look, if nobody likes you, maybe it's not them and it's time to take a hard look at yourself."
I don't know if Vienna is attractive or not, because I can't separate the shady person from what I see in the photos. My suspicion is that when she wakes up in the morning, or afternoon, with no makeup and her hair extensions pulling on her dark roots, that she is a fright to behold.
I see Jake and Vienna as the new Jon and Kate - the latest couple of idiots invented by reality TV who are not stars, they are underachievers who stir controversy and therefore we have to look at them every time we switch on the TV or open a gossip mag.
The best player in all of sports right now - Peyton Manning, amazing talent, great guy, great family man, huge work ethic, modest ego, no controversy, genuinely religious, major philanthropist, winner in every phase of his life and such a great example for all of us....and invisible outside the sports world. Yet we glorify these fakes, tramps and liars.
Welcome to America.

Peyton is in LOTS of commercials. You know he doesn't need the money. Hmmm.....I never really cared, but now that you mention all of these saintly things about Peyton , I am wondering why he is doing them.

[gruder]

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Very fair, and well said. Thanks Sweetpea.
But I am having problems with the Pastor story among others..

Ahh....it is a story, can you or any of us back it up as truth? I could tell you anything I wanted, doesn't make it true.

[richmondrose]

I don't think the people on FORT who don't like VIenna are jealous of her. They just don't like her, and obviously have their reasons for doing so. I do however think there are or have been people out there who don't like her because they are jealous of her. Some of the girls on the show come to mind when I say that, because she was so vocal in her connection (drink!) with Jake and how much fun they have. Let's face it, Ali was jealous initially, not of Vienna's looks but of her connection (again!) to Jake. I'm sure it went both ways too, and inspired the rivalry between them.

BUT I have read some tweets out there from normal everyday people who have met her and who say she is charming and kind and lovely in person. So, not everyone who meets her hates her. It's really generalizing to say that.

I can tell you lots of people say that about my son. In fact I've never heard a negative thing about him from others ... they all think he's great. He is a nice guy but at home, like most kids, he can be a pain at times. I'm really proud that when he's out in public he puts his best foot forward all the time. I don't care how Vienna relates to her close friends and family, but her pride at being brutally honest with people she meets doesn't earn any respect from me.

[Bonbonlover]

I don't understand the "jealous of her" comments... The girl dates her dog and Jake ... She is at-best average looking and doesn't seem to get along with her peers. Her fiance was in love with other women just hours before he proposed to her. I don't think that too many would wish to be in her place.

[Peacheater]

[edit]

I see nothing in Jake or Vienna to admire; they are not role models except in the negative sense. I've seen hundreds, perhaps thousands of fake smiles in hundreds of courtrooms in my career. Jake's smile is nearly always manufactured. Body language always tells me a lot about someone's insecurities and Jake exhibits many traits that turn trial attorneys into bloodthirsty predators. Vienna's demeanor, however, is chameleon. She has an engaging smile, and while it is sometimes "manufactured," it represents her careful calculation of any situation in which she finds herself. As is the case with Jillian Harris, Vienna is an alpha female, and dangerous to her core. In a courtroom, I'd expect her instincts to lean to self-preservation rather than truth. I would expect nothing different from her in any media interview. These may be traits some admire.

I'm no expert on TV by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm closely related to someone who is one of the most knowledgeable experts on reality TV and Hollywood. I trust his opinion. He has been telling me for weeks that Vienna is very much like many young "actresses" who came to Hollywood in the late '50s and '60s: no talent and few prospects, but with the "smarts" and willingness to do whatever is necessary to succeed. When Jake is history, which will likely be soon, Vienna will probably have moved on to another opportunity. When the engagement ends, it would not surprise me to see her dating one of Hollywood's bad boys.

[Tiggerlgh]

I don't understand the "jealous of her" comments... The girl dates her dog and Jake ... She is at-best average looking and doesn't seem to get along with her peers. Her fiance was in love with other women just hours before he proposed to her. I don't think that too many would wish to be in her place.

I know you are just talking about the Vienna Jealousy comment. But in 3 months Ali will be in love with at least 2 guys right before she chooses 1 and months later one of her bachelors will do the same...its the show.

[sdl]

Ahh....it is a story, can you or any of us back it up as truth? I could tell you anything I wanted, doesn't make it true.

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Well, the truth, as investigated and reported by numerous publications including Us Weekly, is that the boy's father was not a Pastor or church official, and she invented the story to appeal to Jake.
So the kid's father either is or is not a Pastor, right?
Bring me evidence, anyone, that he is a church Pastor and I will never post again. Not one more time. Just prove that he was a pastor, and you are rid of me forever.
But, otherwise, let's stick to the facts.