Vienna

[ramanusia]

I don't think you've seen anything that would substantiate those allegations. I don't know why one would make such assumptions without evidence. I think she is definitely assertive in that she is not afraid to express her opinion or go after what she wants. I think she is multi-faceted because she obviously has a soft side, an adventurous side, a free-spirit side, and also a catty side. This is what the young women of this new generation are like. I like that. I think it is a step forward that women are more open in expression and less submissive and traditionally feminine. I am 23-yrs-old myself. I think she is more representative of my age cohort than the others of her age. We are a new brand of woman these days!

I've seen nothing to substantiate an allegation of having more than one facet. I make the same assumptions you do, based on the same evidence, I'm just reaching different conclusions. I think we have a problem of definition here, "multi-faceted" doesn't mean she's merely capable of changing her affect. I don't think she has a disorder of affect. If you present her with a puppy she'll coo, if you poke her with a stick she'll say ouch, etc. That's not different facets of her personality, but appropriate and normal behaviors depending on the stimulus. Most animals show the same types of behaviors, they nurture their young, show fear with predators and aggression with prey.

A multifaceted personality is one in which has depth and breadth, interests in various areas, the ability to function in many roles. I've always seen this as the ability to adapt well to many situations. For example a woman who is able to fill many roles well, to behave professionally in her career, to be intellectual in school, a mother able to meet her child's needs, a supportive spouse, a fun friend, a caring child her parents etc.

The only aspect shown of Vienna is her "fun" personality and her inability to get along with other women. I think it is a basic thing for someone especially a woman vying for a man's affections to be comfort him when he's that scared. That doesn't reflect any deep aspect of her personality, just her basic humanity. I'm sure she'd be horrified at what's going on in Haiti for example, but that's not evidence of a super caring person, just evidence that she's not a cold heartless monster.

I'm not that much older than you and I don't know where you're getting this "submissive" "traditional" woman thing from. I come from a culture in which that is seen as the feminine ideal and I can honestly tell you that very few of the female members of my family are submissive or afraid to express themselves. From my 96 year old grandmother to even the youngest of my cousins children, so I'm not sure where this generational disparity comes from either.

I study with those in your age cohort, and would be statistically included in it (unless you were specifying 23 year olds as your cohort) and I have to tell you that she is in no way representative of the women I know. Of course I have degrees, career ambitions and am studying for a profession, so perhaps my peers are of a different sort of cohort than Vienna all together. Vienna reminds me of the undergrads in the one of the other universities near my undergrad. Many of them showed up on our campus to party and hook up and seemed more interested in pursuing pre-med bachelors than their own bachelors degree in actual subjects that would enable a career of their own post graduation.

Vienna hasn't shown any thing other than pride in being "fun" and shallowness and an inability to interact well with her peers. So I stand by my assessment of her until I'm presented with something to challenge it. And good god, stop comparing her to yourself or your friends! You're able to string together coherent sentences that aren't dripping with drama and you seem to know words! That, in my book puts you head and shoulders above Vienna (and a few of my classmates, I'm sad to say :-d -- Texting isn't a language for heaven's sake!!!)

[ramanusia]

I don't think Vienna has done anything so seriously terrible to be on the receiving end of such abuse. Vienna apologized, in my book everyone gets at least one more chance. She was sweet and kind on their date, she has had some funny comments in previous episodes. Young? Yes. Bad hair? Yes. Evil? No.

I don't understand how being held accountable for your own words is "abuse"? Someone asks you what you meant when you called someone "fake" and you burst into tears? "I'm sorry" doesn't erase things, and from the looks of it she's already been given several chances. I seem to remember Gia saying "I'm the only one who still defends you." To me that implies that everyone else is just kinda done with trying with her, all chances exhausted. Wouldn't anyone have been the same way on that date though? I don't think she's evil, she's certainly lacks awareness and is no diplomat, but I seriously doubt she'd be kicking puppies and kittens. :-D See, I can say non-mean sounding things about her :-D

[brittyiswitty]

I don't understand how being held accountable for your own words is "abuse"? Someone asks you what you meant when you called someone "fake" and you burst into tears? "I'm sorry" doesn't erase things, and from the looks of it she's already been given several chances. I seem to remember Gia saying "I'm the only one who still defends you." To me that implies that everyone else is just kinda done with trying with her, all chances exhausted. Wouldn't anyone have been the same way on that date though? I don't think she's evil, she's certainly lacks awareness and is no diplomat, but I seriously doubt she'd be kicking puppies and kittens. :-D See, I can say non-mean sounding things about her :-D

If you read the girls that have left press you will see that they say it is been presented worse than it is. Her family and friends have said what is presented is not what they knew of her.

Being in a stressful situation not everyone can come out of it looking good, she is in a place where she likes the guy and have no friends to talk to, she came home they ask her question she answers and then later they turn on her because she goes on and on. If they were not interested dont ask, yes she is young but i get the feeling that they might have made her feel that she was not one of them or beautiful like them, even michelle voice that to the camera. Kathyrn defend Vienna so she must not be all that bad. The show is entertainment clips are thrown all about, we only see 2 minutes of 24 hrs give the girl a break if you want to know what happen when you see her ask her.

The saint Ali the barber is a bully MHO.

[ramanusia]

If you read the girls that have left press you will see that they say it is been presented worse than it is. Her family and friends have said what is presented is not what they knew of her. .

Okay, first of all lots of people have been saying lots of things about Vienna, and people who aren't her family or friends but who have had dealings with her are saying some pretty nasty things about her. Frankly, I take each point of view with a large grain of salt. Do you seriously expect her friends and family to bash her, or her “enemies” to praise her?

Being in a stressful situation not everyone can come out of it looking good, she is in a place where she likes the guy and have no friends to talk to, she came home they ask her question she answers and then later they turn on her because she goes on and on. If they were not interested dont ask, yes she is young but i get the feeling that they might have made her feel that she was not one of them or beautiful like them, even michelle voice that to the camera.

All of them are in the same stressful situation and even the ones who came off as being psycho weren't causing this much friction with everyone else. She doesn't have friends there because of her behavior, if it is so bad that they are fleeing from her room to squeeze in elsewhere, you have to wonder what exactly it is we're not being shown here. She was already irritating people PRIOR to her date. While, of course, they may have asked her how the date was and what it was, that doesn't excuse gushing over it to the point where people are walking away rolling their eyes. They weren't asking when she was gushing all over Ella's excitement over her OOO, clearly no one was interested in her advice and yet that didn't stop her from stealing that moment. That’s not “youth” that’s a lack of social awareness. And where did you ever get the idea that Vienna might be self conscious about her looks? Michelle said lots of things, most of which were um, shall we say interesting and not terribly reflective of anything other than what was going on in her own little head.


Personally I have no horse in this race, I don’t have a favorite and I never insinuated any saint/devil dichotomy. Of the 2 minutes they did show us, I see Vienna being dramatic, rude, self absorbed and utterly lacking in self awareness and maturity. I see the other girls trying not to let their irritation show to her face, if only to avoid more hysterics. I see Ali and Gia asking her why she made the accusations she made, I see Ali refusing to accept an insincere apology and I see Ali clarifying the situation to her. If Vienna wants to play dumb that’s her choice, but when someone tries to explain why her behavior is hurtful, that’s NOT an attack from where I’m sitting. Nor is my expressing my views on a girl on a tv show, and just for good measure nothing but to you as well

How is ali a barber? She's not one of the hairstylists.

[MsDll]

I thought for a moment that this had become the 'bash' Vienna thread.

Some of us like her and others do not. I still want to see more to the story with Vienna and Jake, and I think we DO have more to see.

As far as the GIRLS HATE, I think Michelle and Elizabeth said it best. I have a feeling that the next departures may be somewhat due to Vienna bashing. Jake could be just tired of the girls' games. He's there to find love, not mediate for catty women/girls.

[brittyiswitty]

Some of us like her and others do not. I still want to see more to the story with Vienna and Jake, and I think we DO have more to see.

As far as the GIRLS HATE, I think Michelle and Elizabeth said it best. I have a feeling that the next departures may be somewhat due to Vienna bashing. Jake could be just tired of the girls' games. He's there to find love, not mediate for catty women/girls.

I like Vienna I have no need to bash her. We all grow up to become mature adults. She is still young and maybe falling in love is terrifying and she wanting to share and not having the real people who knows her to share with makes the stress and situation more trying and so some of the behavior is not good, but so far to me she is doing well, she wont see the girls after the show is over so why coward to them. She is there for Jake and that is all that should matter to her.
I am more soft hearted than anything and I will take up for the underdog.

I hate abuse and some things Ali character said and did was abusive. There was no need for a gang or click as she put it, I dont believe she is interested in jake anyway so vienna go for you man.

[ramanusia]

This is a Vienna discussion thread, not a defend her at all costs thread :-p I cheer for the just cause not the apparent underdog. Even in this edit that most people see as painting her as a victim, I can't help seeing what is on the screen and the words that people are using. She's being shown to act in a manipulative and immature manner. It's on the screen and what's wrong with saying it? I have a very bad impression of the girl after the last week. I didn't before and it is not solely due what the other girls shown to be saying. Her behavior really grates on one's nerves. As I see it, in the edit last week it was Ali who came out most abused with people saying rather mean things about her, despite the fact that neither her actions nor her words justify that. She's the underdog :-p

If this is to be a Vienna fan club, then label it so and I'll keep my distance, til she's done something to disabuse me of the impression she gave me last week. I mean she went from sweet little ditz, to manipulative drama queen in a flash! I can't help but wonder how much RS revelations have to do with the filter people have put onto her edit. Unspoiled people might have raised an eyebrow at Ali taking the initiative to hold her accountable, but they also didn't think Vienna's behavior was so very sweet .

[RealityLovesMe]

I've seen nothing to substantiate an allegation of having more than one facet. I make the same assumptions you do, based on the same evidence, I'm just reaching different conclusions. I think we have a problem of definition here, "multi-faceted" doesn't mean she's merely capable of changing her affect. I don't think she has a disorder of affect. If you present her with a puppy she'll coo, if you poke her with a stick she'll say ouch, etc. That's not different facets of her personality, but appropriate and normal behaviors depending on the stimulus. Most animals show the same types of behaviors, they nurture their young, show fear with predators and aggression with prey.

A multifaceted personality is one in which has depth and breadth, interests in various areas, the ability to function in many roles. I've always seen this as the ability to adapt well to many situations. For example a woman who is able to fill many roles well, to behave professionally in her career, to be intellectual in school, a mother able to meet her child's needs, a supportive spouse, a fun friend, a caring child her parents etc.

The only aspect shown of Vienna is her "fun" personality and her inability to get along with other women. I think it is a basic thing for someone especially a woman vying for a man's affections to be comfort him when he's that scared. That doesn't reflect any deep aspect of her personality, just her basic humanity. I'm sure she'd be horrified at what's going on in Haiti for example, but that's not evidence of a super caring person, just evidence that she's not a cold heartless monster.

I'm not that much older than you and I don't know where you're getting this "submissive" "traditional" woman thing from. I come from a culture in which that is seen as the feminine ideal and I can honestly tell you that very few of the female members of my family are submissive or afraid to express themselves. From my 96 year old grandmother to even the youngest of my cousins children, so I'm not sure where this generational disparity comes from either.

I study with those in your age cohort, and would be statistically included in it (unless you were specifying 23 year olds as your cohort) and I have to tell you that she is in no way representative of the women I know. Of course I have degrees, career ambitions and am studying for a profession, so perhaps my peers are of a different sort of cohort than Vienna all together. Vienna reminds me of the undergrads in the one of the other universities near my undergrad. Many of them showed up on our campus to party and hook up and seemed more interested in pursuing pre-med bachelors than their own bachelors degree in actual subjects that would enable a career of their own post graduation.

Vienna hasn't shown any thing other than pride in being "fun" and shallowness and an inability to interact well with her peers. So I stand by my assessment of her until I'm presented with something to challenge it. And good god, stop comparing her to yourself or your friends! You're able to string together coherent sentences that aren't dripping with drama and you seem to know words! That, in my book puts you head and shoulders above Vienna (and a few of my classmates, I'm sad to say :-d -- Texting isn't a language for heaven's sake!!!)

Wow. I really need to watch the deleted scenes because I only watch the show and none of this has aired! From what I've seen, it seems like Vienna can talk quite well. I don't know why you believe that's not the case.
When I say "multifaceted," I mean "multifaceted." And I have seen a few sides to Vienna so far. So I'm standing by it!

[Charmed1]

Some Vienna and Jake avatars using Ryvetted's wonderful caps:

Sanlee I hope you don't mind my using one of your avatars, just let me know if its not o.k. Thanks.

[sanlee]

Sanlee I hope you don't mind my using one of your avatars, just let me know if its not o.k. Thanks.

It's perfectly fine ....that is what they are made for!