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Thread: A new thread for the Post-Spoiler World: Parting Words

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    FORT Fogey jlccaz's Avatar
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    A new thread for the Post-Spoiler World: Parting Words

    Professional tic to be so bloody analytical about everything. Step back from the hurt feelings, wounded pride, shame, embarrassment, anger, laden stuff dominating insider/observer conversations about the season. To me the facts more point to an evil plot hatched between January 5 and January 18 to blind-side Melissa at the ATFR1 taping, as opposed to any pre-conceived PLAN going back to last Fall to have a Chayevsky style implosive ending to a fading series.

    I'm not saying that is what Actually Happened. I don't know and don't feel like guessing. I'm just saying, analytically (scientifically, if you will) this hypothesis holds together very well for me. The December PR was all about most romantic finale, spectacular location, crew being moved by the Happy Couple with Ty. Big shift though the very same week the show aired, and Jason had to do his media rounds. He was backpedaling. We spotted it at the time if we are honest with ourselves. The KEY time period is between Christmas and the January 18 taping.

    I see the Jan 18 taping as a disgusting Roman Coliseum-worthy spectacle cooked up by Fleiss et al to make "must see TV" out of Jason's foolish decision to go through with a proposal to Melissa, notwithstanding his late developing but ultimately more promising (to him) attachment to Molly. They (producers AND the produced) are jerks for doing what they did. It's every reason I think this is one of the worst shows on TV in terms of its portrayal of women as victims who get dumped for giving their hearts (and let's face it BODIES) to some jerk unworthy of their Real World time or attention.

    If I were to completely speculate (as in make up a theory that fits), I would guess that the network/producers had to weigh whether Jason was actually serious about pursuing Molly, so sometime between mid December and January 18 at a very minimum I would suppose that intermediaries explored whether there could be a viable “couple” to tape and present ATFR. Perhaps even the show psychologist. Who knows. But there’s no way the network was flying blind in terms of how Molly would react January 18.

    Anyway, a trip down memory lane and an open question for the analytical types: is it more likely that this cruel taping and public airing of the switch were a mid season PR crisis, managed in an evil Fleissian (Raw, real, forget compassion) fashion. (And go ahead, pile on Jason for being "produced". I'm not interested in Blame Game, more HOW DID WE GET HERE FROM THERE?)
    --------
    Nov 25th - FRC filmed

    Nov 26-27-28 -- Jason/Melissa private time in NZ (hypothesis, things still fun and good. Remember what my Dad said: sex is the rocket that makes a marriage take off.)

    December 3: Jason tapes KOMO interview -- inadvertently leaks immediately to FOR (GO POODLES). Same day, almost, leaks out that Melissa just got back to work, so she must be F1 or F2.

    "Christmas Holidays - Jason and Melissa spent time together in LA. Rocket losing steam. Jason losing faith in choice. Second guesses. [Perhaps contact with Molly directly or through intermediaries in this time period. Don't know that though!]

    Dec 25th preview: includes that bizarre footage of Jason sobbing on the balcony. We all notice it at the time. What could have upset him so deeply!

    Jan 4 preview: Shows proposal with pinky ring etc. Walk out of Purple dress girl is included though. FORT immediately places "her" as Molly AT Eagle's Nest and all puzzle: when have the producers ever shown us F1 AND F2 in the series supertease? Hackles up, this is strange. Some think it's because they are finally going to "show us the love story." Ha.

    January 5: Series premieres – no meet and greet for Melissa; Molly cutting in on dancing [hypothesis: network/producers trying to decide what to do this week.]

    January 5: Journal Gazette dot net - Fleiss stated: "Although I think this new one had a good chance of ending up married"

    Jan 5-12: Jason does round of interviews with media, where the "in the know" hosts Ellen and Jimmy (to me) ask questions showing they know this relationship will be over before the finale even airs. Jason's public statements subtly shift (which all of us noted at the time) to emphasize no wedding plans and that he was completely in love with two girls. Very sincerely stated, for Jason.

    January 12 episode: Molly asks for the kiss in the pool / Melissa gets blimp ride [this week, the producers decide upon the Fleissian plan of dragging Melissa in to a taping to “show” the break-up and

    January 18: Taping of the EMERGENCY ATFR Part I, Jason dumps Melissa.

    January 19 EPISODE: MOLLY NO DATE AND NEARLY INVISIBLE / MELISSA KEEP A BREAST (Shift in Melissa’s edit noted on FORT; needy, whiny, etc. Posts on FORT suggest insiders know the relationship is over). Melissa/Jason email exchange (real???)

    January 26: EPISODE 4: MOLLY TENT DATE (first opportunity for Jason/Molly relationship to take off in any real sense; hot tub – a previewed scene -- left on cutting room floor); GENERAL HOSPITAL (Melissa freak-out, showing how fast her feelings have gone; Body Language crowd goes nuts for her legs; Jillian previewed scenes left on cutting room floor) – Hypothesis: editors made last minute changes to this episode in light of breaking news developments in the real world.

    January 27: Steve releases bombshell announcement. Had he not leaked it, and leaked it as a P-L-O-T it is not clear to me how the producers/network would have packaged up their little train wreck of a season. We will never know what their plans were. Just that they decided to tape the break up in a studio with no audience. Who knows? Maybe Steve’s leak in a weird way forced them to air footage they wouldn’t have aired. Did his leak “help” Melissa’s image or not? I’ll never know. Much potentially meaningful analysis of edit and sleuthing is brought to a screeching halt by the obsessive need to know if Steve is a liar, a pawn, etc. (He is neither, definitively, he is neither.)

    “EARLY” February: many (and I do mean, many) FORTers receive information from diverse, seemingly uncoordinated cacophony of sources, with the “guts” of the shocking surprise. The network taped a surprise breakup with Melissa, so he can be with Molly.

    February 2: EPISODE 5: Seattle (weird “cancellation” of Melissa date scenes?? Did they perhaps GO to Space Needle after all?? Something very strange about the time spent with Melissa. Molly only gets radio interview and the long walk—also weird) Why is Molly so invisible? By this time, they are playing up the Melissa’s family theme. (**NOTE: My take on the family theme is that it was the Planned Plot Point to create suspense about an obvious front runner. Its vestiges remained in the final show, as aired, but it became anachronistic once the “real” (that is, POST FRC) plot developed unexpectedly.**)

    February 9: EPISODE 6: HOMETOWN DATES. Molly’s family is portrayed as “fun”; Melissa is portrayed as a victim in relationships, with a family who hate “this process”

    February 12: ABC announces additional AFTR show.

    February 13: WTA taped

    February 16: EPISODE 7: FANTASY DATES. Jason and Molly bungee jump, get to know each other (Real world Hypothesis: serious physical chemistry kicking in, but Melissa still front runner – it is the Jesse scenario all over again.) Edit analysis: Molly comment foreshadowing that he will make a mistake. A scripted comment? Perhaps, but I’m leaning against.

    February 17: Steve reveals the guts of the story

    March 2: EPISODE 8: FINALE. Extra effort to show the physical connection with Molly (massage table), over Melissa (squeaky baby talk, shown on the bed fully clothed). Melissa got the “ultimate wife” edit (by then, the agreed talking point for why it didn't work. How insulting incidentally – it’s like something right out of Mad Men. Anyone can see he’s now saying that Melissa would be simply a "cheerleader" to her husband, rather than a full intellectual partner. So insulting. At least he wasn’t that blunt in national media interviews. Anyway, I find it extremely plausible that once “the process” disappeared, there was nothing to talk about. How many, many of "us" here diagnosed them as an impossible mismatch, even before we heard they were kaput as a couple.

    February 27: ATFR part 2 taped

    ----

    Those are my last words (barring new facts!!!!!!!).

    What are yours?

  2. #2
    FORT Fanatic twochicklets's Avatar
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    Re: A new thread for the Post-Spoiler World: Parting Words

    Thank you so much, jlccaz, for putting that all done in order, very helpful. You know, I had thought that this was far more sinister, until Jason's post game wrap-up interviews. I was tempted to go along with the "Fleiss planned it all from the start" theory until Jason emerged as the fickle-dimwit-that can't read people-or his own mind kind of guy. I now think that he did change his mind and the Fleissians just used their creative mojo to enhance their plot. Your January 5th gazette notation is what made me think this. Again, thank you for your hard and very intelligent work this season. And as I fly away in my Ozian balloon leaving the land of Fleiss, you are the scarecrow to my Dorothy..I always looked forward to your posts most of all.

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    FORT Fogey KashatheDiva's Avatar
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    Re: A new thread for the Post-Spoiler World: Parting Words

    I enjoyed the ATFR1 very much. I enjoyed the jump the shark ending. To me it was REAL LIFE.
    I realize these people sign their lives away. I also realize like Brad, Jason could have handled this differently. But I don't see Jason, nor have I ever, as a strong person who thinks things through(otherwise would he ever have done the show once, but twice?) I think TPTB treated Jason as the innocent lamb(sybolism) they kept showing us during the NNZ footage.

    I believe the show was scripted in the sense Jason was going to be guided towards Melissa from day one. I believe Jason was attracted to Molly at least by the episode that had their tent date--an overnight date at that point in the dating process was unprecedented.
    I believe Jason's handlers kept encouraging the flame for Melissa. We already knew the girls' handlers are consistently feeding them things to make them think the bachelor wants them. So I do believe Jason was in love with two women and torn up over them at the point of the LCD's.

    I believe De was used to plant a huge seed. De told Jason she should have picked the safe one(him) and instead went with the wildcard(Jesse) and so made the losing choice. Jason is very suggestible and I think this talk helped to push him into making the safe choice.(Mel) I would not be surprised if his handlers did their magic too to enforce this.
    However, I believe Molly planted her own seeds. At her FD with her "what if you pick the wrong one" talk and then at the FRC with her rejection speech. You could tell Jason was intently listening to her about her telling him he made a mistake. You saw his reaction to what she said --the balcony scene. I don't believe that was all in response to her leaving. I think Jason had some doubt about having made a mistake, too.

    Articles are now coming out saying Jason knew right after the holidays things were not good. The season starts at Jan 5. No RCG. Did TPTB know that early he was going to breakup and choose Molly? We will never know.

    I don't think Molly had any clue this was coming and I do not think her response was so strange. I see a lot of myself in her and under the same situation, I might have been pissed as hell but if I was still in love with the guy I would not let pride stand in my way of letting perhaps the best thing in my life walk away. So I would have taken that leap of faith and tried to work things out.
    Many marriages have had an unfaithful spouse and the other spouse has stood by them, worked it out and gone on to have wonderful lives with their spouse--or at least continued the marriage for whatever their reasons. This was not even a case of infidelity, but just dating rejection.
    I think the only clue Mel knew this was coming was that she knew by the time the ATFR1 was filming that things were over. Both parties have said as much. So I don't believe she was blindsided, as such that day. However, I don't think she or Jason had any clue this relationship was going to fail the day the FRC took place and he chose her. I think shortly after the holidays Jason was faced with a moral dilemma and had the obsessive and perhaps morally correct obligation, as he saw it, to rectify things ASAP.
    Anyway, sorry for the length.
    I enjoyed it the way the season ended. Yes, Melissa went through pain, but all breakups are painful period and I think she has moved on.

    I do want to clarify in all this, I am not personally addressing whether or not this was how the circumstances should or should not have been handled, I am only addressing what I think happened in the form of scripting or storylines of this show. JMO
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    FORT Newbie Can't Look Away's Avatar
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    Re: A new thread for the Post-Spoiler World: Parting Words

    Quote Originally Posted by twochicklets;3367626;
    I was tempted to go along with the "Fleiss planned it all from the start" theory until Jason emerged as the fickle-dimwit-that can't read people-or his own mind kind of guy.
    I've come to the conclusion that there are only two kinds of people who come on this show. Either they are doing it for selfish reasons (media exposure, great adventure, etc), or they are completely hopeless at relationships and are using the show as a last desperate attempt at finding love.

    Neither of these groups is very likely to form a successful relationship from the artificial process of this show. So I think it is to be expected that the relationships will go south quickly, and the only thing unusual about this season was that it went even quicker than normal.

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    Premium Member pajamasam's Avatar
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    Re: A new thread for the Post-Spoiler World: Parting Words

    is it more likely that this cruel taping and public airing of the switch were a mid season PR crisis, managed in an evil Fleissian (Raw, real, forget compassion) fashion. (
    You certainly make a compelling argument for the mid season crisis management response. I have always thought that the producers would like nothing better than to have another happy couple a la Trista and Ryan. There's no reason for them to have engineered anything like this before the season began taping. Thank you for putting it all into a succinct timeline.

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    FORT Regular inanookry's Avatar
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    Re: A new thread for the Post-Spoiler World: Parting Words

    I am wondering if anyone knows or has speculated about the order of taping of the final rose. We saw Jason dump Molly, have Molly warn him, and then Jason sobbed and shortly after happily proposed to Melissa. But how do we know it wasn't the other way around. How do we know he didn't propose to Mel first, then meet with Molly and have second thoughts at that point? I think they played the editing trick to make it all look worse, but it would take some of the crud off of Jason if people didn't think he proposed to Mel directly after the gut-wrenching sobbing for Molly, don't you think?

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    FORT Newbie Can't Look Away's Avatar
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    Re: A new thread for the Post-Spoiler World: Parting Words

    Quote Originally Posted by inanookry;3367914;
    How do we know he didn't propose to Mel first, then meet with Molly and have second thoughts at that point?
    Anything is possible with editing, but I think it would make more sense to do the rejection first. They had the whole pool scene with Ty to shoot afterwards and there were shots of them mostly dried off after that, which would take up most of the afternoon.

    Also, Jason is pretty emotional anyway. He was pretty choked up after Jillian left, and she was only F3. Not to mention all of the tears for Stephanie, for whom he didn't even have feelings.

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    Re: A new thread for the Post-Spoiler World: Parting Words

    You guys are making me believe! I've been so on the fence, going back and forth on whether I think the plot was hatched from the beginning.

    But RS is so insistent that it was all a plot, and while I find him increasingly irritating, he hasn't been wrong yet.

  9. #9
    FORT Fogey jlccaz's Avatar
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    Re: A new thread for the Post-Spoiler World: Parting Words

    Quote Originally Posted by tryagain;3368012;
    You guys are making me believe! I've been so on the fence, going back and forth on whether I think the plot was hatched from the beginning.

    But RS is so insistent that it was all a plot, and while I find him increasingly irritating, he hasn't been wrong yet.
    Neither have we on points of fact that I can remember, except about Bitter End Yacht Club, which I was the first to correct as being New Zealand. Kasha and I with the help of others posted the entire season, largely in advance of the premiere, date by date.

    But being wedded to hard facts, I lack the hurbis to offer the Anti-Plot scenario above as sourced fact.

    Love Steve. Have been amused by his column for awhile -- though lincee and FORT writers are way funnier.

    Was in the crowd of many to email him the essential facts of his Big Reveal before he emailed it. Steve took ALL of the heat by publishing what he'd heard on the WWW. I give him tons of credit for that.

    And I don't stake my non-existent online reputation on this scenario. This is just where I'm coming out on it all:

    1. Stupid largely scripted season as usual (faked girl on girl competition, lame and unimaginative plot points and date ideas, etc.).
    2. Jason muddles through final day proposing to the obvious girl, without sufficient introspection to consider the possibility that it's a terrible idea to pick at all.
    3. Wakes up later realizing he picked stupidly (in terms of a match that can survive in real world) and has no stomach for the Happy Couple clause. Attempts to reclaim manhood by "going for" Molly, whom he sincerely believes as of today is a good pick for him.
    4. Melissa is treated badly, but moved on as they all do. Can decide later whether to publicly forgive Jason/Molly. Personally, I do think Portia had it right. That people who show mercy are twice blessed.
    5. Next season is pre-cast and pre-conceived to be annoying and stupid and will only be romantic by accident not by contrivance.
    Last edited by jlccaz; 03-04-2009 at 05:22 PM.

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    FORT Fan Specialized's Avatar
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    Re: A new thread for the Post-Spoiler World: Parting Words

    Quote Originally Posted by KashatheDiva;3367683;
    I enjoyed the ATFR1 very much.

    Articles are now coming out saying Jason knew right after the holidays things were not good. The season starts at Jan 5. No RCG. Did TPTB know that early he was going to breakup and choose Molly? We will never know.

    I don't think Molly had any clue this was coming and I do not think her response was so strange. I see a lot of myself in her and under the same situation, I might have been pissed as hell but if I was still in love with the guy I would not let pride stand in my way of letting perhaps the best thing in my life walk away. So I would have taken that leap of faith and tried to work things out.
    __________________
    I have posted an article in the media thread a short time ago that you should find very interesting. Molly was in the process of becoming the next Bachelorette when Jason told her that he wanted "a shot" at a relationship with her. No wonder she needed to talk further with him. She actually turned down her own "Bachelorette" show to take a chance at furthering their relationship. Obviously, she really did fall in love with Jason, and he got to approach her in the nick of time!!! I wonder if he knew that she was about to become the next Bachelorette, and that led to ATFR 1 being filmed on JAN 18.

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