Misogyny 101: why do WOMEN help produce and watch this show?

[annabanana2]

This show ending with an engagement is what is so "un"realistic about it. I agree with Mae, take this aspect out of it and even the over the top dates would be more palatable. We could debate who was most deserving of the fantasy suite and rose petals, not the husband, or wife, as the case may be.

[jelle]

This show ending with an engagement is what is so "un"realistic about it. I agree with Mae, take this aspect out of it and even the over the top dates would be more palatable. We could debate who was most deserving of the fantasy suite and rose petals, not the husband, or wife, as the case may be.

Do you think that people who watch the show for it's romantic theme, looking for a love story, are people who also would jump headlong into relationships after a short time? Is this some fantasy ideal?

Now I know there are people who decide on the first date that it is everafter and are still going strong, but I think that is the exception. There are far more people who marry too soon and end up divorced. We have talked about the issues involving sexual exploitation, behavioral expectations, humiliation ect, but what about the marriage aspect of this? Is there any influence or message that it is sending?

At least with Brad's show ending in him choosing no one, despite his villification, the precept was put there that it was possible (but not okay) to leave empty handed. Does the show say anyone is better than no one?
If the guy proposes to you - even in pretend - does that validate what the girl had to do to get to that point? And does the show encourage the idea that Marriage, engagement, commitment is no big deal, because you can always back out of it later? Sort of like put it all on your credit card and file bankruptcy?

I see so many really bad messages being sent, but what I wonder is are they really being recieved?

[grneyedgirl]

This show is so, so far from reality. I believe that the people that go on the show are real people, but the situations are quite far off from what occurs in the real world.

How many people would actually accept a date with a man if he asked to take you and your best friend out at the same time? How many people would sit at home and wait for a date card to come from a man--all the while knowing he was out making out with someone else? How many people would actually accept a proposal from someone who spent an intimate evening with someone else days before? Would anyone accept a proposal from someone who wasn't 100% sure that you were the "one"--12 hours prior to the engagement? If I accepted a proposal under those circumstances, friends and family would tell me to have my head examined.

I think what is wrong with this show is that it goes against everything we know to be true about building a successful relationship. This show doesn't encourage monogymy, it doesn't encourage communication, it doesn't encourage sacrifice, it doesn't encourage partnership. Basically, the show encourages drama. Drama makes for good TV.

It is no wonder very few of these relationships last. They weren't built to work out in the long run. They are built to provide us with entertainment.

[kultainen]

This show is so, so far from reality. I believe that the people that go on the show are real people, but the situations are quite far off from what occurs in the real world.

How many people would actually accept a date with a man if he asked to take you and your best friend out at the same time? How many people would sit at home and wait for a date card to come from a man--all the while knowing he was out making out with someone else? How many people would actually accept a proposal from someone who spent an intimate evening with someone else days before? Would anyone accept a proposal from someone who wasn't 100% sure that you were the "one"--12 hours prior to the engagement? If I accepted a proposal under those circumstances, friends and family would tell me to have my head examined.

I think what is wrong with this show is that it goes against everything we know to be true about building a successful relationship. This show doesn't encourage monogymy, it doesn't encourage communication, it doesn't encourage sacrifice, it doesn't encourage partnership. Basically, the show encourages drama. Drama makes for good TV.

It is no wonder very few of these relationships last. They weren't built to work out in the long run. They are built to provide us with entertainment.

Good post. I agree that it is a primer more on how to not succeed in a relationship that how to. Now I am not a "Rules" girl by any means, but I do believe that a true relationship, no longer how intense it starts, only works if both take time and go slowly in stages. Forced events, rushed happenings and particularly the push from the show to go all kissy/huggy real fast (or more) leads to bad outcomes. This one may have just been pushed one bad step further.

And I don't think they pick the women or the men with any cncern over what fits with TB (ette). They look for types: drunk, bad mouth, big mouth, bitchy, sweet and innocent, insecure, longing for love...and frankly at least one who should have had a psychiatric discharge note. For example, I love Mel and maybe it works out, but even I (who defends her all the time, fellow DCC that she is) can see how a former DCC with the calendars and model photos she has in her portfolio would ever blend with a Jason. And also, we generally know that people tend to marry people close to their age..so why is a mid 30's guy surrounded primarily by mid 20's women, and why is the one close to his age (Steph) edited as essentially an old foggy?

As bad as TB can be, remember that stupid Cougars v. whatever show where a guy had younger women and older women and had to choose a mate? It was sooo bad it only lasted one season.

And then there is always Rock of Love...

[annabanana2]

Do you think that people who watch the show for it's romantic theme, looking for a love story, are people who also would jump headlong into relationships after a short time? Is this some fantasy ideal?

Now I know there are people who decide on the first date that it is everafter and are still going strong, but I think that is the exception. There are far more people who marry too soon and end up divorced. We have talked about the issues involving sexual exploitation, behavioral expectations, humiliation ect, but what about the marriage aspect of this? Is there any influence or message that it is sending?

At least with Brad's show ending in him choosing no one, despite his villification, the precept was put there that it was possible (but not okay) to leave empty handed. Does the show say anyone is better than no one?
If the guy proposes to you - even in pretend - does that validate what the girl had to do to get to that point? And does the show encourage the idea that Marriage, engagement, commitment is no big deal, because you can always back out of it later? Sort of like put it all on your credit card and file bankruptcy?

I see so many really bad messages being sent, but what I wonder is are they really being recieved?

Jelle, I'm not sure what to think in terms of those who watch for the romantic version. I work with young women who take the whole engagement aspect VERY seriously. They truly believe that it's a real engagement and invariably will remind me that it can happen and will happen again, using Trista and Ryan as an example every time. They even get upset if you suggest taking a more realistic view of it could save them some angst. By the way..they are the reason I started watching this show, they are so wrapped up in it..look where it got me. LOL. I'm not saying that this is relevant to that particular demographic ( young women), just used that particular example. I'm a sociology major, so I tend to try to make sense of things that just don't make sense. (to me). As far as jumping into marriage early, I have examples of that in my own family, but that would take pages and be boring. As for Brad, I totally respected his decision and him. I didn't see any connection between he and De or Jenni and I was floored that TPTB let it play. I'd love to have been there when the decision was made to allow that ending! As for the messages being sent: if the women watching have common sense and intelligence, they watch for the diversion. If they come away with a ill-conceived concept of what real relationships are all about then this show is harmful in some sense.

[jelle]

As for Brad, I totally respected his decision and him. I didn't see any connection between he and De or Jenni and I was floored that TPTB let it play. I'd love to have been there when the decision was made to allow that ending!

Me too! I think that Brad got away with it because he was so stubborn he simply refused. Anyone on the show can do that, they just don't, or they pick their battles. Someone in some post said that the producers work with what they are given, then push, prod and mold alfter that. So Mile Fleiss had to decide how they were going to play this one and how they were going to do their payback. Oh to be a fly on the wall.

[jelle]

There was some great discussion about the show in general and where it is going. Perhaps now that we are more sure about the resolution, we could activate the discussion again.

I find it interesting that there is some blame being attached to the women on the show with the camparison being made to that of rape victims. Since the hero and TPTB are really in the control tower here I just do not understand that part. All of the cast has signed away any control of their edit and their fate, which I do not understand either.

In this case we have a male in control of the fate of 25 women. We know that several women removed themselves from the playing field. Is this so different from the real dating life? The men still pick, but the woman reject?

Since the last two bachelorettes have been given pretty crummy edits how is Jillian going to fare when she is the chooser and rejector? We have the same men in control of the bachelor and the bachelorette shows.

[kultainen]

There was some great discussion about the show in general and where it is going. Perhaps now that we are more sure about the resolution, we could activate the discussion again.

I find it interesting that there is some blame being attached to the women on the show with the camparison being made to that of rape victims. Since the hero and TPTB are really in the control tower here I just do not understand that part. All of the cast has signed away any control of their edit and their fate, which I do not understand either.

In this case we have a male in control of the fate of 25 women. We know that several women removed themselves from the playing field. Is this so different from the real dating life? The men still pick, but the woman reject?

Since the last two bachelorettes have been given pretty crummy edits how is Jillian going to fare when she is the chooser and rejector? We have the same men in control of the bachelor and the bachelorette shows.

Maybe you were referring to my comments about juries in rape cases. I was never comparing a rape victim to a victim of some bad conduct on reality television. My point was this: as you say on the boards there is a lot of women (primarily) going back and forth as to the faults of Mel and Molly, and blaming each of them in some way for what happened to them: Melissa is a fame whore who flaunted herself (that CHEERLEADER); Molly has been called a backstabbing cheat (and worse words). Etc. Etc. What I said was that in rape trials the defendant historically has done better in getting off with juries made up of women who are similar to the victim. The studies in criminal justice show that these women are so concerned they might just have been that victim that they find ways to blame her for the man's conduct so as to prove to themselves that they couldn't be. It's why the "who she slept with, what she wore, where she was" stuff works better on those juries. "There but the grace of god go I". So, I was analogyzing that on these boards, and even on the show itself, women are judging other women more harshly. While the men, whose conduct is really the issue, skate by.

What I was pointing out is that historically men escape blame n situations by getting women to turn on each other rather than on them. Hope that clarifies.

On to Jillian, I unfortunately think she will be seen on the show as MF wants her to be seen. Give up control and all bets are off. If he needs a good season after last, she will come out OK; if the ratings convince him he's on the right track, she won't.

On the whole as bad as it can be both ways, I much prefer the woman as the chooser than choosee.

[imissme]

Did anyone watch the Oscars? Well, again this year one of the esteemed Hollywood actors went on a rant about how Hollywood has once again saved America from itself. His assertion was that Hollywood is the cure for all of the racist, bigoted, and biased problems in America. Hollywood has saved us all. As long as by all you mean men.
I sat there wondering if the blowhard actor realized the social area that Hollywood has placed women in from the very beginning of pictures to current releases. Women to be even remotely successful must be extremely attractive. Fat,ugly, plain male actors always get the girl. when is that ever reversed? NEVER.
Hollywoood and the world cheer when America elects a black president. But where is the outrage about there not being a female in the White House? When will Hollywood understand the effect they are having on young girls? Females obtained the right to vote 70 years after white mans slaves obtained the right to vote. Think about it, white man gave his possessions the right to vote 70 years before white man gave his mother, daughter and sister the same right.
I am not shocked girls fill their chests with silicone. I am not shocked they put botulism in their lips. I am not shocked they starve themselves nutritionally to fit in the elusive size zero. I am shocked that no one understands why.

[fluff]

Fat,ugly, plain male actors always get the girl. when is that ever reversed? NEVER.

That also mirrors real life.
I doubt three young men would be willing to share the affections of an aging female who spends most of her time in a dressing gown, even if she was a multi-millionaire.
Reverse the roles and E turns it into a reality show.