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Thread: Misogyny 101: why do WOMEN help produce and watch this show?

  1. #31
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    Re: Misogyny 101: why do WOMEN help produce and watch this show?

    Quote Originally Posted by fluff;3338596;
    One thing I do find interesting is that very often the friendships the women who participated on the show make with one another last far longer than the relationshp between the Bach and the "winner".
    So true!! And some of that statement spills over in real, real life.

  2. #32
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    Re: Misogyny 101: why do WOMEN help produce and watch this show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arielflies;3338641;
    Do women who watch the Bachelor tune in for the dating soap opera, each season hoping there will be a romance, or the Springer-like confrontations? Mike Fleiss seems to think it is the latter - but, he is a man. So, ladies who watch - why DO you tune in each Monday night?

    (Funny thought crept in...perhaps this is the female equivalent of Monday Night Football.)
    MNF is overwhelmingly a male program. The Bachelor is and always has been, even in it's weaker rated seasons, one of the highest rated shows among women 18-34. It is, even in this higher rated season, fourth in it's time period among men 18-34. The Bachelor is the equivalent of a sport for young women.
    Quote Originally Posted by canuckinchile;3339178;
    Personally, I think most of these girls go on the show because they want a stepping stone into the entertainment industry. They want to be on TV and they don't care how they get on it. Deanna was a prime example of this, and I never really warmed up to her.
    That's exactly what I thought about Trista during The Bachelorette. She had stars in her eyes. Falling in love with Ryan wasn't part of the plan. Moving to Vail certainly wasn't. It was a happy accident. Given the track record of this show, it was a freak occurance.

    Now to answer the questions:

    Women produce this show for the money. it isn't a hobby to them. They are getting paid (handsomely) for their efforts. Much like a house band playing covers all night long, it's a compromise they make in order to be employed.

    Why women watch is a more interesting issue. I started watching, when friends were talking about Alex's season. I was clueless, and saw it as a straight-forward dating show. I started online during Trista's season, but carefully avoided the spoilers. During Blob's season, I became disillusioned. I now watch for the sleuthing. If all seasons were like Charlie's, in which the previews showed nothing beyond the next episode, I would have given up on this show long ago. I like figuring out what happens next and knowing what really happened, rather than just what was shown.

    Why is the show popular with non-sleuthing women? In part it's a dream of romance, of Cinderella Dates, Fantasy Dates and proposals. It's like romance novels. In part it's Jerry Springer-like, where one can see oneself as superior to the desperate, one-dimensional characters portrayed, who are shown head-over-heels for someone they've just met.

    But why the surge in popularity this season? I, ABC, and Fleiss are still trying to figure that one out.
    Is it too much to ask for some reality in reality TV?

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    Re: Misogyny 101: why do WOMEN help produce and watch this show?

    To date, the skankiest scene on this show was the very first season. When Alex took the ultimate "winner" Amanda to NYC. First they discussed her breast implants in the carriage ride, then in the suite he ordered up a "sex" plate of strawberries, chocolate and whipped cream and we practically got to see them have sex on tv.

    He clearly had sex with both. After that they made it a little more tame by talking about the spending the night in terms that made you think it was a night with no cameras.

    There have always been girls that mortify the rest of us. The bikini girl on American Idol for example. They often throw the old, you're just jealous of my hot body. No, just mortified that you seem to have no self respect.

    I think there is a huge variety in why women go on this show. To date, I haven't seen a single girl who didn't look fabulous in a bikini. I'm guessing most go on realizing one out of 25 is still slim odds, I can leave my life for an adventure and get recognized on national tv.

    I doubt many really go on thinking they're really there to meet a man to marry. The ones who do, who say they aren't there to make friends, are quickly the pariahs of the group.

    I mean, why do girls pose for playboy, do porn movies, and subject themselves to humiliation in a million different ways?

    At least many of the girls this season really seemed like nice, relatively normal girls. I enjoy seeing the friendships and silly stuff as much as the relationship part of it.

    But what can it possibly do to your ego to be let go like they do, standing there waiting for prince charming to choose them? At least if they were auditioning for a legitimate part as an actress they'd understand it wasn't personal. This is personal.

    I have a 12yo who watches it occasionally with me, and it's a good lesson on how kisses are supposed to be special, you should not have to fight for a boyfriend like this, and why you want to make sure you behave in a way that makes you feel proud of yourself at the end of the day.

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    this show?

    As a Feminist,youngun (22) and a fan of the show I think the pull of this show is just the sheer fun of it and the human interest into other peoples buisness. I don't think the women are being demoralised any more than women all over the world that are cut up over a guy at this second. My friend found out her boy had been seeing someone else last night and she wasn't happy, we had wine. The Bachelor exposes what the human condition is and damn are we interested.

    Reality TV is by far the biggest audience puller, and its just the same here in England. The shows that get everyone talking are most often the reality ones. The bachelor, despite its story of love set up will always take a twist of its own because it contains real people. Jason is acting like normal men would and the ladies, after not seeing a man in weeks are clinging on to whoever is infront of them (sorry Jason isn't hot). As with Survivor, Big Brother, Momma's boys etc everyone watches and competes for a it of fun and at the time we all get pissed off that he picked the wrong one/didn't choose us but everyone gets on with their lives (Dee is a prime example). We enjoyed laughing at the first night frocks and felt for the more demure ladies that got let down by the sleeze..we enjoyed it all ...we were nosy with it all..


    We had the ride, it was fun and we move on with most of our dignity intact..then when the next promo for the new series pops up we think 'hurrah! drama! maybe this time they will get married..or he will choose a bimbi again and we can laugh when she leaves him for that hot guy from House'
    Last edited by VelvetBex; 02-22-2009 at 10:47 AM.
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    Re: Misogyny 101: why do WOMEN help produce and watch this show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinnia;3339867;

    Why is the show popular with non-sleuthing women? In part it's a dream of romance, of Cinderella Dates, Fantasy Dates and proposals. It's like romance novels. In part it's Jerry Springer-like, where one can see oneself as superior to the desperate, one-dimensional characters portrayed, who are shown head-over-heels for someone they've just met.

    But why the surge in popularity this season? I, ABC, and Fleiss are still trying to figure that one out.
    You forgot the comedy aspect of it all. First and foremost this show is funny because it takes itself so seriously. Every season the show pretends that another buff, handsome, accomplished "good catch" just happens to lack that special, special lady in his life. He couldn't find her like any other man, in a bar, in a coffee shop, in a library, at the mall amid thousands of women walking by every day in spite of the fact that he's handsome and buff and smart. So what does he do? Why, he signs up for a TV show!! Never mind that on the TV show he will only meet 25 women who are also on the show because, guess what, they're pretty, with nice figures, perhaps even a brain but, like him, they couldn't find a man despite all that. And we're supposed to believe that?

    This show grossly underestimates the intelligence of everyone watching. I see only one way to look at it and that's as a farce. I expect to see the drama, the scripted fun, the fights, even the fake romance and I certainly expect the last rose to be given out. That's the payoff. On Survivor you get a cool million, on The Bachelor you get a rose. I wish they'd ditch the whole silly engagement-for-show aspect of it and just give out the rose to the "winner". The Bachelor would be a much better show if it owned up to what it really is in the end. I don't expect that it ever will.

  6. #36
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    Re: Misogyny 101: why do WOMEN help produce and watch this show?

    I sort of accept that this format is the "gold standard" of reality dating competition in concept, in that you can't argue with being able to keep in on major broadcasting network for this many Male Lead / Female Lead iterations.

    And I get that the producers/editors can't pander exclusively to the "show me the love story" crowd, because (a) there often isn't one, and (b) it would be dull to many, and canceled that very season. That very vocal audience segment is not large enough to pull 8-12 million viewers in prime time.

    But I do wonder if there might not be another way to get sufficient conflict, suspense, romance, friendship without sticking to the tired old format of stupid human tricks, girl on girl hostility, hot tubs, etc.


    I have evolved in my thinking on this quite a bit.

    I think the answer to that is, No.

    1. No one would watch. These are real people, and it's not possible to make them interesting enough to watch for an 8-week run without those plot contrivances. It's too big of a risk to take with such a prime slot of network timing.

    2. I can see they must really struggle to get the very high quality girls to go on television, even just for the adventure. And the bikini shot requirement is disqualifying of many otherwise suitable contestants. I wish we all "looked like that" but we don't.

    3. So we get the circa 2008-09 version of the show: pre-cast F4 to F6, heavy coaching on topics for discussion / words to use, closed set for some "reality" filming, and a few rare glimpses of spontaneous human interaction.

    But as I've said, I had a blast learning about the country of New Zealand, and where to vacation there. I just wish the flippin' economy would recover so I could actually go.

  7. #37
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    Re: Misogyny 101: why do WOMEN help produce and watch this show?

    Quote Originally Posted by jlccaz;3339961;
    I sort of accept that this format is the "gold standard" of reality dating competition in concept, in that you can't argue with being able to keep in on major broadcasting network for this many Male Lead / Female Lead iterations.

    And I get that the producers/editors can't pander exclusively to the "show me the love story" crowd, because (a) there often isn't one, and (b) it would be dull to many, and canceled that very season. That very vocal audience segment is not large enough to pull 8-12 million viewers in prime time.

    But I do wonder if there might not be another way to get sufficient conflict, suspense, romance, friendship without sticking to the tired old format of stupid human tricks, girl on girl hostility, hot tubs, etc.


    I have evolved in my thinking on this quite a bit.

    I think the answer to that is, No.

    1. No one would watch. These are real people, and it's not possible to make them interesting enough to watch for an 8-week run without those plot contrivances. It's too big of a risk to take with such a prime slot of network timing.

    2. I can see they must really struggle to get the very high quality girls to go on television, even just for the adventure. And the bikini shot requirement is disqualifying of many otherwise suitable contestants. I wish we all "looked like that" but we don't.

    3. So we get the circa 2008-09 version of the show: pre-cast F4 to F6, heavy coaching on topics for discussion / words to use, closed set for some "reality" filming, and a few rare glimpses of spontaneous human interaction.

    But as I've said, I had a blast learning about the country of New Zealand, and where to vacation there. I just wish the flippin' economy would recover so I could actually go.

    I totally concur, but I think even with the parameters given, there's so much that could be done to enliven the show and make it far more "watchable." If I were the show-runner (hint hint Fleiss) I'd show much more of the funny moments--Stephanie's dress revue, Jason falling off the horse, Jason playing beer pong with Molly's family--WITHIN the episodes, and not just as "blooper reels." That comic relief would lend some verisimilitude to the smarmy "romantic dates" week after week, and lead the viewers to believe, however, falsely, that they were getting to know the characters better.

    Given that the final 4-6 are generally pre-ordained, go film some interesting footage before the show starts showing them in their home and work environments, with their friends and family. Then as each is about to go on one-on-one or two-on-one date with TB, show that footage before or within the date.

    And, finally, there has to be lying in the dust-bin of the cutting room floor many hours of conversations about something other "I think I'm falling in love with you, You know we have a connection, yada yada yada." Granted, it's probably not about Proust, but even discussions about the weather would be more interesting than the garbage we're given. If it took six hours to film the hotel dinner scene in Seattle with Jillian, Molly, and Stephanie, they had to be talking about something that whole time!

    If there are real sparks between TB and more than one girl, and the Stockholm Syndrome aspect of the filming almost guarantees that, then show it as the season progresses. Now there's some real tension to be had. If I were Fleiss (praise be I'm not) I'd fire the entire editing crew and get some new editors in there who realize that a story needs a beginning, middle and end.

    And I concede, there has to be a ring at the end--the greater viewing audience isn't going to watch to see "who gets the rose." It's not that even that the Jane Q. Publics believe in "the romance" and "true love forever", it's just that they consider the "money shot" at the end part of the unspoken contract they've signed on to as the price of watching syrup run down the side of the jar for two months.

    Ditch the ATFR show--at the end of the FRC, let the Happy Couple climb up onto white steeds and gallop off into the sunset. Nobody really cares 'what happens after'--we've dumped our leftover popcorn kernels into the trash bin and left the theater by then.

  8. #38
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    Re: Misogyny 101: why do WOMEN help produce and watch this show?

    Quote Originally Posted by BritLit;3339979;
    I totally concur, but I think even with the parameters given, there's so much that could be done to enliven the show and make it far more "watchable." If I were the show-runner (hint hint Fleiss) I'd show much more of the funny moments--Stephanie's dress revue, Jason falling off the horse, Jason playing beer pong with Molly's family--WITHIN the episodes, and not just as "blooper reels." That comic relief would lend some verisimilitude to the smarmy "romantic dates" week after week, and lead the viewers to believe, however, falsely, that they were getting to know the characters better.

    Given that the final 4-6 are generally pre-ordained, go film some interesting footage before the show starts showing them in their home and work environments, with their friends and family. Then as each is about to go on one-on-one or two-on-one date with TB, show that footage before or within the date.

    And, finally, there has to be lying in the dust-bin of the cutting room floor many hours of conversations about something other "I think I'm falling in love with you, You know we have a connection, yada yada yada." Granted, it's probably not about Proust, but even discussions about the weather would be more interesting than the garbage we're given. If it took six hours to film the hotel dinner scene in Seattle with Jillian, Molly, and Stephanie, they had to be talking about something that whole time!

    If there are real sparks between TB and more than one girl, and the Stockholm Syndrome aspect of the filming almost guarantees that, then show it as the season progresses. Now there's some real tension to be had. If I were Fleiss (praise be I'm not) I'd fire the entire editing crew and get some new editors in there who realize that a story needs a beginning, middle and end.

    And I concede, there has to be a ring at the end--the greater viewing audience isn't going to watch to see "who gets the rose." It's not that even that the Jane Q. Publics believe in "the romance" and "true love forever", it's just that they consider the "money shot" at the end part of the unspoken contract they've signed on to as the price of watching syrup run down the side of the jar for two months.

    Ditch the ATFR show--at the end of the FRC, let the Happy Couple climb up onto white steeds and gallop off into the sunset. Nobody really cares 'what happens after'--we've dumped our leftover popcorn kernels into the trash bin and left the theater by then.
    I completely agree that it would add a lot if we were to see all those funny, awkward, random moments usually relegated to the "blooper reel", if shown at all. I think it's those other things, not the staged conversations about how strong of a connection there is, that make people really get to know each other. That's where the real bonding occurs. And then, if TPTB weren't so intent on portraying all relationships as following a certain trajectory, I would hope there wouldn't be such a need to cast roles beforehand. Because the F3, for example, wouldn't always fall into the same category of "having a connection but not opening up enough." It would be so much more fun to see a more balanced portrayal of all of the relationships. Stop hiding the F1! Don't try to shock us by only showing us the great things about Jason's relationship with Jillian!

    I also agree that the setup of this show only works because there's a designated ending in sight. I don't think it necessarily has to be an engagement. But I think the only reason the 25:1 ratio seems okay is because we and the contestants know that at a set point, the Bachelor(ette) will declare someone his/her F1 and claim to love that person more than any of the other contestants. Now, I think it would be a different story if we were to throw together 15 men and 15 women, for example. I'm not sure how something like that could work in terms of having an "ending", but I know it would certainly be interesting to see the jealousy going both ways for once.

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    Re: Misogyny 101: why do WOMEN help produce and watch this show?

    Oh, and I forgot to add one thing to my post. I think that the final six women should be required to have a drawing of sealed envelopes from a goldfish bowl. One of them has the FRIEND CARD in it; they open them privately before the 6/4 cut and whoever has the card gets to go to the F4 automatically--but the others are unaware of her status.

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    Re: Misogyny 101: why do WOMEN help produce and watch this show?

    Quote Originally Posted by BritLit;3339979;
    I totally concur, but I think even with the parameters given, there's so much that could be done to enliven the show and make it far more "watchable." If I were the show-runner (hint hint Fleiss) I'd show much more of the funny moments--Stephanie's dress revue, Jason falling off the horse, Jason playing beer pong with Molly's family--WITHIN the episodes, and not just as "blooper reels." That comic relief would lend some verisimilitude to the smarmy "romantic dates" week after week, and lead the viewers to believe, however, falsely, that they were getting to know the characters better.

    Given that the final 4-6 are generally pre-ordained, go film some interesting footage before the show starts showing them in their home and work environments, with their friends and family. Then as each is about to go on one-on-one or two-on-one date with TB, show that footage before or within the date.

    And, finally, there has to be lying in the dust-bin of the cutting room floor many hours of conversations about something other "I think I'm falling in love with you, You know we have a connection, yada yada yada." Granted, it's probably not about Proust, but even discussions about the weather would be more interesting than the garbage we're given. If it took six hours to film the hotel dinner scene in Seattle with Jillian, Molly, and Stephanie, they had to be talking about something that whole time!

    If there are real sparks between TB and more than one girl, and the Stockholm Syndrome aspect of the filming almost guarantees that, then show it as the season progresses. Now there's some real tension to be had. If I were Fleiss (praise be I'm not) I'd fire the entire editing crew and get some new editors in there who realize that a story needs a beginning, middle and end.

    And I concede, there has to be a ring at the end--the greater viewing audience isn't going to watch to see "who gets the rose." It's not that even that the Jane Q. Publics believe in "the romance" and "true love forever", it's just that they consider the "money shot" at the end part of the unspoken contract they've signed on to as the price of watching syrup run down the side of the jar for two months.

    Ditch the ATFR show--at the end of the FRC, let the Happy Couple climb up onto white steeds and gallop off into the sunset. Nobody really cares 'what happens after'--we've dumped our leftover popcorn kernels into the trash bin and left the theater by then.
    Great post. Those that have watched long enough enjoy figuring out who those "pre-ordained" 4 to 6 are and then watching the story unfold.

    ITA about the cutting room floor bit, as what we are shown of the last seaons is cookie cutter dates and stereotyped personalities. In lieu of drama, we get staged performances with samo lines. And if that isn't enough, the show makes a giant leap for the shark to pull something out at the end.

    From Brad's season on, each "finale" is raffe with that kind of event. It is about "the winner" and "the final pay-off" and anything other than that, even though we know better about the longevity of the showmance, drives the viewer over the edge.

    Unfortnately in the reality show business, the more outlandish the better. The higher the ratings, the more $$$ for the network.
    Still hopeless to see a GREAT romance!! <3

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