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Thread: 2/09 Show Discussion **spoilers**

  1. #391
    FORT Fogey graycat11's Avatar
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    Re: 2/09 Show Discussion **spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Kacey253;3315576;
    I don't understand the posters that seem to think it is a huge red flag that Melissa's friends that she and Jason had dinner with don't know much about her parents. I can equally speculate that maybe they know more than they felt comfortable saying on camera out of respect for her parent's sense of privacy. Just like with everything else on this show, the only information we really have is from what the producers show us in the edits.
    No one is expecting details.

  2. #392
    FORT Regular CookieJ's Avatar
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    Re: 2/09 Show Discussion **spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by seeker;3315741;
    Melissa has every right to her own happiness. Relationships in general need a lot of awareness and work to grow and thrive. My point is that she if she is needy of Jason (who comes with an impressionable 4 year old Ty) there is a possibility she may be taking on more than she can handle at this point if she has unresolved issues about her past that may impact her life going forward. Avoidance or pretending those issues will disappear bec' she found a guy like Jason would only make things worse in the long run. JMO!
    Totally agree with you! We all make mistakes and try to learn from them. If she has had zero support from her family all along, then it could make it very difficult for her to have enough confidence in herself to be thrust into a wife/mother role. I honestly don't think she's ready for that role and don't think she's right for Jason, but I wanted to at least stick up for her possible situation. It's difficult to overcome a past and be who you want to be if you have no support system to help get you there.

    But I don't get the idea that Jason might be attracted to 'needy' women. DeAnna was ANYTHING but needy. If you put DeAnna and Melissa side by side and started listing qualities they have in common, I think you'd run into a barrier right after 'brunette'.

  3. #393
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    Re: 2/09 Show Discussion **spoilers**

    If you really think about it, is it really all that surprising that Melissa's friends wouldn't know all that much about her parents? If she really does have a strained relationship with her parents, would she really talk about them with her friends? It's been indicated that they didn't attend performances, etc. They just weren't around for anyone to really get to know them.

    I can relate. My parents only went to my activities that they pushed me into. If it was something that I WANTED to do, they weren't interested. I was on my own. None of my friends in high school knew my parents and I didn't talk about them. Does that make me a bad person? I like to think that I rose above all of it. I've been married for 33 years to someone much like Melissa....a lot of personality and everyone loves her! Melissa is probably much stronger than most people are willing to give her credit for.

  4. #394
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: 2/09 Show Discussion **spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by CookieJ;3316563;
    Totally agree with you! We all make mistakes and try to learn from them. If she has had zero support from her family all along, then it could make it very difficult for her to have enough confidence in herself to be thrust into a wife/mother role. I honestly don't think she's ready for that role and don't think she's right for Jason, but I wanted to at least stick up for her possible situation. It's difficult to overcome a past and be who you want to be if you have no support system to help get you there.

    But I don't get the idea that Jason might be attracted to 'needy' women. DeAnna was ANYTHING but needy. If you put DeAnna and Melissa side by side and started listing qualities they have in common, I think you'd run into a barrier right after 'brunette'.
    The obvious way Deannnnnnnna was needy IMO was her demand that the guys entertain her, that whole thing at the cookout when the guys did their own thing. Her very statement that it mattered to her that Jesse and Jeremy were always by her side during her season alone goes to show she needs the attention.

    I haven't watched this season so my impression and views on Melissa is purely based on SCs and the general consensus mostly from posters whose views I have respected during previous seasons on this board.
    Last edited by seeker; 02-11-2009 at 08:50 PM.

  5. #395
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    Re: 2/09 Show Discussion **spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by seeker;3315724;
    For the time being, Melissa is the Deannnnna look-alike and Jason may be working through (subconsciously) something he needs to deal with after the rejection from Deaannnnnnna. Melissa may be a nice person but with a lot of baggage to toss before she is ready to step into the role of mentor and step mom. If she has issues in her relationships (be it family or bfs) it is going to play out in some form with Ty as well. If Melissa is emotionally clingy that may not work well in the long run in any relationship. I still think she will be the one to walk away once their contractual obligations are up. Jason yet again will be the one to get dumped. Seems like the pattern he has set up for himself. Unless he works through why he sets himself up for rejection over and again, he will choose women who walk away from him again and again. He should address it before he confuses the heck out of Ty.
    I agree. I think Jason seeks out these women because he assumes they won't leave if he picks ones who are kind of needy because they will depend on him so much. I think that while he thought he could be DeAnna's knight in shining armor to rescue her from her feelings of rejection by Brad or her grief over her mother, he was actually the needy one. He was looking for Deanna to mend the hole in his heart that he'd had since his wife left. That's a lot to place on someone and DeAnna, given her role after her mom died, wasn't really looking to try to heal Jason or anyone else. (That is the same thing I said about Jeremy as well). Her family still depends on her an incredible amount and Jason, while trying to play prince, was really looking for what he claims to be offering.

    Unless he really figures something out, he's going to be scared to choose Jillian because she a) had to get real strong because of her mother's illness b) can be strong enough to walk away if she needs to. I think he'd be the clingy one. Melissa is very childlike from what I've seen. I'm not really sure why she is there. I think she'd get bored with Jason really fast ... I think most women would.

    Perhaps he should try the mail order bride thing.

  6. #396
    FORT Fanatic Nativenewyorker's Avatar
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    Re: 2/09 Show Discussion **spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by CookieJ;3316563;
    Totally agree with you! We all make mistakes and try to learn from them. If she has had zero support from her family all along, then it could make it very difficult for her to have enough confidence in herself to be thrust into a wife/mother role. I honestly don't think she's ready for that role and don't think she's right for Jason, but I wanted to at least stick up for her possible situation. It's difficult to overcome a past and be who you want to be if you have no support system to help get you there.

    But I don't get the idea that Jason might be attracted to 'needy' women. DeAnna was ANYTHING but needy. If you put DeAnna and Melissa side by side and started listing qualities they have in common, I think you'd run into a barrier right after 'brunette'.

    With all due respect, I disagree with your comment that Deanna was not needy. Neediness takes different forms with different people. Deanna always had to be the center of attention, it was always about HER feelings, HER emotions, HER hurt, etc. This is not uncommon in someone with her history. She lost her mother at the age of about 12. By her own admission, she became the caretaker of the family. She had to be the surrogate mother. Now that she is an adult, she wants to be pampered and taken care of by her mate. So in that sense she is definitely needy emotionally. She could suck the life out of someone.

    Melissa has her own issues. She is definitely insecure and has low self-esteem. We don't know for sure the nature of her relationship with her family. This does NOT make her a head case or a loser. It's just a reason for caution.

    If Jason is indeed the kind of man who needs to be a caretaker and comforter, then Melissa may well be a good match for him. Sometimes the weaknesses or vulnerabilities of two people can make for a great match. Only time will tell if that is the case with Jason and Melissa.

  7. #397
    FORT Regular CookieJ's Avatar
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    Re: 2/09 Show Discussion **spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Nativenewyorker;3317203;
    With all due respect, I disagree with your comment that Deanna was not needy. Neediness takes different forms with different people. Deanna always had to be the center of attention, it was always about HER feelings, HER emotions, HER hurt, etc.
    You know, after I wrote that statement I realized I contradicted myself... and tried to edit it but it had been longer than 30 minutes. DeAnna IS one of the most needy women I've ever seen on this show.

    The word I was looking for with Melissa vs DeAnna wasn't 'needy', I think it was 'meek'. Melissa has a little girl/baby talk/stick the bottom lip out quality about her. Jumping up and down, getting more emotional, giggling like a little girl who just got a pony. DeAnna has the more assertive/brash/outgoing/ somewhat 'pushy' quality. The "LOOK at me...NOTICE me... you're here to make ME happy and don't you ever forget it pal" hip shot stance. I can't see Jason being attracted to so much about one, and not seeing any of those same qualities in the other.

  8. #398
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    Re: 2/09 Show Discussion **spoilers**

    So---why don't the women meet Jason's parents, if parents of a potential spouse are so important?

    Naomi's parents didn't care one whit about their daughter; both used their TV-time to advance their "spritual" agendas.

    And I can see Molly's parents pretty much thinking Jason is not quite the WASP they envisioned as their SIL, golf notwithstanding.

    Jillian is a fully-formed adult with a swell family, but if Stephanie was a bit too prim and proper, IMO Jillian is too blowzy and dull. I found it off-putting and unnecessary of Jillian to reveal her mother's battle with depression, PARTICULARLY as she has overcome it. Yeah, yeah, "made me who I am", no need to say why, just BE who you are.

    IOW: Jason is attracted to the perky and cute NFL CHEERLEADER (let us not ignore the draw of snaring a dame who is ogled by thousands of other guys!) with the ready-made married-with-children friends.
    Last edited by WinkyD; 02-12-2009 at 08:27 AM.

  9. #399
    ABC Cheats Viewers! Zinnia's Avatar
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    Re: 2/09 Show Discussion **spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by graycat11;3314591;
    The edit was just awful tonight - Melissa got the 2nd rose, not the 3rd, as they made it appear....



    How do we know that the this was edited?
    1. After Melissa received her rose, and walks back, you can see the final rose is on the podium.

    2. ABCMedianet released publicity photos, taken in order. Jillian was last.
    Is it too much to ask for some reality in reality TV?

  10. #400
    FORT Fanatic Nativenewyorker's Avatar
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    Re: 2/09 Show Discussion **spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by CookieJ;3317475;
    You know, after I wrote that statement I realized I contradicted myself... and tried to edit it but it had been longer than 30 minutes. DeAnna IS one of the most needy women I've ever seen on this show.

    The word I was looking for with Melissa vs DeAnna wasn't 'needy', I think it was 'meek'. Melissa has a little girl/baby talk/stick the bottom lip out quality about her. Jumping up and down, getting more emotional, giggling like a little girl who just got a pony. DeAnna has the more assertive/brash/outgoing/ somewhat 'pushy' quality. The "LOOK at me...NOTICE me... you're here to make ME happy and don't you ever forget it pal" hip shot stance. I can't see Jason being attracted to so much about one, and not seeing any of those same qualities in the other.
    I completely get where you are coming from. I think that is an accurate assessment of the real difference between these two women. Melissa does have that little girl quality. Maybe that's why I keep feeling that she is too immature to handle a ready-made family. If she is F1, I hope I'm wrong for Ty's sake.

    Deanna is definitely more aggressive in her neediness, shall we say. She gets in your face and doesn't stop. That's certainly what she did with Graham, and it had disastrous results.

    These two women definitely share a physical resemblance and the underlying emotional neediness in both of them is something that seems to appeal to Jason. I think Deanna has some really serious emotional problems that she has yet to work through. I am not as sure about Melissa. I know that she's insecure and has low self-esteem, but that can be said about a lot of people. I don't know her family history the way I know Deanna's, so it's hard to figure out where her lack of self-confidence comes from.

    I don't find it surprising that Jason may not see the underlying emotional similarities in Melissa and Deanna. Men don't tend to be introspective, so he may genuinely just not be aware of it. I don't find Melissa to be as obnoxious as Deanna was, and she seems to have more empathy and not be quite as self-centered.

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