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Thread: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

  1. #51
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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    Quote Originally Posted by JoanRanger;2687918;
    I can understand why some people disagree with me. Personally, I'd LOVE for all the stereotypes to be "mostly false." But I base my assertions on what I've observed in over 16 years of practising as a licensed marriage and family therapist. Men will respect and value what they've had to work for - far more than they'll value what has come easily. That's true for ALL humans, to a degree, but it's far more true for men when it comes to romance.

    This show makes for some interesting entertainment, but plucking an accomplished, desirable man out of obscurity and creating a situation where 25 beautiful women are all throwing themselves at him to compete for his attention...it'd be a miracle if he could maintain a realistic sense of himself. And even more of a miracle if he could actually fall in love with one of those women deeply enough to take the plunge and marry her.
    1. Are you saying that you believe the people you see in therapy represent a cross-section of the general population? I find that hard to believe. I think it is more likely that my experience with family, friends and co-workers over many years and living in several different locations represent a more diverse group on which to form conclusions in this area. I would guess you are also including your observations outside of the people you see in therapy, but it goes totally against what I've seen.

    2. I truly believe that building a relationship based on honesty and a growing knowledge of the other person is work. Men and woman alike respect and value a strong relationship that is the result of their commitment to each other.

    3. I agree with your second paragraph, but believe it applies equally when the woman has 25 attractive men trying to win her heart.

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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    Quote Originally Posted by estygal4;2683268;
    Hi....I usually just lurk but after last night's "ending" I have some thoughts..and questions. Like many people I DO understand why he would not propose marriage but I keep wondering why the finality of it all?? WHY wouldn't he suggest they just "get to know each other' in the RW, date, etc? Other bachelors have done this, with a promise ring, a plane ticket. Yes, it is not all that "satisfying" to the viewers' but it gives an illusion of a happy ending till the breakup hits the gossip rags.

    I wonder : some of you had posted that this season was "cut short" or the shows were shortened ?? Can you explain that?? I personally thought this season had little "flair", no really romantic locales, even the "fantasy suites" were sort of lackluster. It also had few twists (ie, no stalker, no lush European castles, etc). The "twin" was hardly much of a twist, I don't even think they look alike!

    I actually liked Charlies ending...date em both in real life....then pick. I guess Brad didn't even want that. That also makes me wonder...did Brad cool off when he brought them to meet his family?? Maybe passed on messages from his ex in Texas?? Could that be the reason he cooled down so much??

    I really hope that they ask him some REAL questions..when did he decide to break it off altogether?? Why didn't he at least try dating?? Did his "ex" have a part in his decision?? Thanks for any feedback on these ideas and I would also appreciate anyone who can point out the "shortening"(?) of this season !!
    My answer to that is: Yes.
    OK, here are my speculations on it: There is a lot of things Brad left unsaid at the ATFRC. I don't believe he is single and I don't believe his ''I have issues that I need to deal with'' bit. I believe he is dating agaiin and that is the only logical explanation as to why he would dump 2 beautiful, intelligent women without giving EITHER a chance to date in the real world. I think there was something very bizarre about that decision. He threw out the baby with the bath water! Why??!! There were so many options available to him--why not even continue to date both ladies? Like DEanna said at ATFRC, nothing makes sense. Well, often, the reason something doesn't make sense is because we are not getting the whole picture. There is something taht he is not telling, something that's going on we don't know about, and obvioulsy he wants to keep it hidden. What I think happened is he started seeing someone, possibly an ex girl. And IMO, I'd take a wild guess and say he began dating before the end of hte Bachelor. I stronlgy suspect his heart belonged to someone before he even got to the podium, which would explain the double-dump. And he did not decide AT THE LAST MINUTE to let these 2 ladies go either, I am 100%convinced of that. That decision was made well in advance, which gives me even more reason to believe he was un-available. Hey, it's either that or he's gay. Seriously, there is no other rational explanation. And so, this makes this season of hte bachelor completely senseless. And some people are asking why the ring then? I think maybe because of his contract, he was bound and had to play the part until the very end, who knows. But what an act and a fiasco it turned out to be. However, I don't blame Brad for anything, he agreed to do the show and was bound by their rules, and felt he had to cop out at the end, but I do feel that the show needs to re-examine how they do things from now on. I do feel sorry for all the ladies, however, and especially Jenni and Deanna, they did not deserve that. Too bad, if ONLY he could have come out at the end and said what's really going on with him, it still would have looked bad, but he would have looked better, and at least it would have made him only human. Maybe it's not the case for everyone, but for many women it's human nature to want our man back when we see him dating 25 beautiful women, and what man isn't tempted to crawl back to an ex who, according to rumors, dumped him? I think that's likely what happened. I may be completely wrong, but to me it seems like the most likely scenario and the most reasonable explanation to this mess. Jenni and DeAnna, I feel your disappointment and deception, but it's not worth crying over. You did nothing wrong. You put yourselves out there and handled yourselves with class and dignity. I wish you both all the best!
    Last edited by jewels2312; 11-23-2007 at 02:46 AM.

  3. #53
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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    Quote Originally Posted by jewels2312;2688033;
    My answer to that is: Yes.
    OK, here are my speculations on it: There is a lot of things Brad left unsaid at the ATFRC. I don't believe his ''I have issues that I need to deal with'' bit. I believe he is dating agaiin and that is the only logical explanation as to why he would dump 2 beautiful, intelligent women without giving EITHER a chance to date in the real world. I think there was something very bizarre about that decision. He threw out the baby with the bath water! Why??!! There were so many options available to him--why not even continue to date both ladies? Like DEanna said at ATFRC, nothing makes sense. Well, often, the reason something doesn't make sense is because we are not getting the whole picture. There is something taht he is not telling, something that's going on we don't know about, and obvioulsy he wants to keep it hidden. What I think happened is he started seeing someone, possibly an ex girl. And IMO, I'd take a wild guess and say he began dating before the end of hte Bachelor. I stronlgy suspect his heart belonged to someone before he even got to the podium, which would explain the double-dump. And he did not decide AT THE LAST MINUTE to let these 2 ladies go either, I am 100%convinced of that. That decision was made well in advance, which gives me even more reason to believe he was un-available. Hey, it's either that or he's gay. Seriously, there is no other rational explanation. And so, this makes this season of hte bachelor completely senseless. And some people are asking why the ring then? I think maybe because of his contract, he was bound and had to play the part until the very end, who knows. But what an act and a fiasco it turned out to be. I feel sorry for all the ladies and especially Jenni and Deanna, they did not deserve that. IF ONLY he could have come out at the end and said what's really going on with him, it still would have looked bad, but he would have looked better, and at least it would have made him only human. Maybe it's not the case for everyone, but for many women it's human nature to want our man back when we see him dating 25 beautiful women, and what man isn't tempted to crawl back to an ex who, according to rumors, dumped him? I think that's likely what happened. I may be completely wrong, but to me it seems like the most likely scenario and the most reasonable explanation to this mess. Jenni and DeAnna, I feel your disappointment and deception, but it's not worth crying over. You did nothing wrong. You put yourselves out there and handled yourselves with class and dignity. I wish you both all the best!
    You have some excellent observations there jewels.

    Jenni is back with her former boyfriend, who picked her up from the airport when she got home. Interesting isn't it ? And it somewhat explains her reticence in opening up to Brad. She explained that she had been broken-up with the former for almost 8 months, so she wasn't hiding a relationship, but said she really got caught up in the interaction with Brad, and in the end it helped her see things a little more clearly with the ex (Russell is his name) ... and that everything happens for a reason. Maybe you are correct and the same thing happened to Brad.

    As for the ring ... he HAD to by contract I'm sure, because of an agreement with Chopard.

    I have said, again and again, that I think if he just wasn't feeling it he made the right decision. Why he didn't wish to give either a chance later is just a miserable mystery. I can't imagine he had enough of an opportunity or time to make a lifetime commitment ... but he must have had enough time to have all these "strong feelings" so strong that he still can't keep his hands off either of them and still "misses" DeAnna. So something is amiss here. Perhaps something happened behind closed doors that enlightened him. There was a rumor about a lie, so maybe that.

    We'll never know, I guess.
    "The way to become boring is to say everything." Voltaire

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  4. #54
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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    Quote Originally Posted by seeker;2687931;
    Didn't Brad say the same thing to Bettina on the sailing date "you have everything I am looking for, you are perfect.....". Maybe this was part of the script the producers gave him that he used.
    He said something like that to Bettina, yes, but he also expressed doubts with her. When telling her that, he wondered pretty much in the same sentence if that as who she really is. We've heard this about Bettina again and again, and in the end he sent her home because he still didn't know who she really was.

    Quote Originally Posted by seeker;2687931;
    Even then some of the convos. didn't make any sense the way it was put together. Example: Though Bettina was credited with saying the two four letter words turns out that it was DeAhna who actually said it and Bettina repeated it in a questioning tone.
    We have no proof at all that DeAnna really said this. People just assumed it because Solisa (whom I would not consider the most credible person on that show) apparently told Jenni that DeAnna called her a slut. Well, in fact Jenni and DeAnna seem to really like and respect each other. I do not believe for a minute that DeAnna was the one saying it in the situation that we've been shown, and that's not because I don't want to believe it, but because of the shell-shocked look DeAnna gave Bettina when she said it. This look just said "Whoa, that was so uncalled for!"
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  5. #55
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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    Quote Originally Posted by freethinker;2683233;
    I don't think it's his decision that might jeopardize the future of the show. When all is said and done, Brad made an honest decision, even if it wasn't a very satisfying ending for most of us. We all have to remember that "The Bachelor" is real life for a few people --- we're just observers and our lives aren't affected one way or the other, no matter how each season turns out.

    But, that being said, while I do appreciate the honesty that went into reaching the conclusion that neither girl was the right one, I don't appreciate the manipulation that lead up to last night's shocker. It was unfair to us, but more importantly, it was unfair to the people involved.

    The women who reached the final stages - especially Jenni and DeAnna - were constantly poked and prodded to "open up" and "tell me how you really feel." They ended up looking like fools for simply doing what was asked of them.

    Brad ended up looking like an idiot for all of those dreamy PIs and conversations in which he went on and on ad nauseum about how he could see himself with this woman or that woman and why. If that was true, then things would have ended differently last night.

    All the editing in the world can't hide the fact that Brad's decision was obviously not a last minute one. You don't just wake up in the morning and make a decision that could affect your future and someone else's. When they went through the whole "choosing a ring" act - obviously that's all it was. There's no way I'll ever believe that Brad hadn't already firmly decided he wasn't going to give that ring to anyone.

    So basically, everybody involved ended up looking like a fool and for that I put the blame squarely on ABC's shoulders. I don't blame DeAnna or Jenni for doing their best to make their feelings known; I don't blame Brad for making an honest decision that he thought was best for himself and everyone else.

    I DO blame ABC for manipulating them and us with the constant tease and I guess to some extent I also blame Brad for going along with it since he could have halted things earlier and saved both DeAnna and Jenni some hurt and televised embarrassment.

    So the show doesn't have to end --- but I think it's definitely got to change.

    We're not stupid and we all learned long ago not to fall for the "most amazing..." or "most romantic..." or "most dramatic..." whatever teases. Now we've also learned that just because "the bachelor" goes on and on about how he can see himself spending the rest of his life with somebody else - he doesn't necessarily mean a word of it.

    ABC needs to inject some honesty into the show from day one....or it will be the end.
    Excellent Post, there isn't much left to say, you just about said it all.

  6. #56
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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    Quote Originally Posted by jewels2312;2688033;
    My answer to that is: Yes.
    OK, here are my speculations on it: There is a lot of things Brad left unsaid at the ATFRC. I don't believe he is single and I don't believe his ''I have issues that I need to deal with'' bit. I believe he is dating agaiin and that is the only logical explanation as to why he would dump 2 beautiful, intelligent women without giving EITHER a chance to date in the real world. I think there was something very bizarre about that decision. He threw out the baby with the bath water! Why??!! There were so many options available to him--why not even continue to date both ladies? Like DEanna said at ATFRC, nothing makes sense. Well, often, the reason something doesn't make sense is because we are not getting the whole picture. There is something taht he is not telling, something that's going on we don't know about, and obvioulsy he wants to keep it hidden. What I think happened is he started seeing someone, possibly an ex girl. And IMO, I'd take a wild guess and say he began dating before the end of hte Bachelor. I stronlgy suspect his heart belonged to someone before he even got to the podium, which would explain the double-dump. And he did not decide AT THE LAST MINUTE to let these 2 ladies go either, I am 100%convinced of that. That decision was made well in advance, which gives me even more reason to believe he was un-available. Hey, it's either that or he's gay. Seriously, there is no other rational explanation. And so, this makes this season of hte bachelor completely senseless. And some people are asking why the ring then? I think maybe because of his contract, he was bound and had to play the part until the very end, who knows. But what an act and a fiasco it turned out to be. However, I don't blame Brad for anything, he agreed to do the show and was bound by their rules, and felt he had to cop out at the end, but I do feel that the show needs to re-examine how they do things from now on. I do feel sorry for all the ladies, however, and especially Jenni and Deanna, they did not deserve that. Too bad, if ONLY he could have come out at the end and said what's really going on with him, it still would have looked bad, but he would have looked better, and at least it would have made him only human. Maybe it's not the case for everyone, but for many women it's human nature to want our man back when we see him dating 25 beautiful women, and what man isn't tempted to crawl back to an ex who, according to rumors, dumped him? I think that's likely what happened. I may be completely wrong, but to me it seems like the most likely scenario and the most reasonable explanation to this mess. Jenni and DeAnna, I feel your disappointment and deception, but it's not worth crying over. You did nothing wrong. You put yourselves out there and handled yourselves with class and dignity. I wish you both all the best!


    I also feel there is a lot more to this then we are seeing.

    My gut feeling, tells me there is someone else, either he isn't sure about and wants to pursue further or his ex. girlfriend. It has been rumoured that Brad was text messaging her through out the show. His family could very well have told him something to cause him to change his mind.

    If he still wanted a chance with his ex. girlfriend, why go on the show? Then, we have to look at another reason why he was on the show. We can all be sure we know where to find TheChugginMonkey and the other bars on 6th St. in Austin, Texas. Next business trip, I'll be sure and stop by.

  7. #57
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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    Quote Originally Posted by www;2687151;
    Would just like to say thank you for posting this - I too had read Men Who Can't Love after a devastating relationship w/a Commitment phobe - and you are correct - NOT the garden variety jerk - they have serious issues. It was obvious Brad has the same behavior - deer in the headlights looks, shutting down, distancing, etc.

    I'm writing this post however in the hopes that someone WILL tell Deanna about this book - it was my bible as I was healing and helped SO much.

    This is interesting, coming from someone who has actually been there.

    I noticed how quickly Brad would close up, if someone questioned him or as you said get that deer look. I felt it was an anger issues, but maybe you are closer to the truth then I was.

  8. #58
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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    I took this post from the Bettina thread. Since it was not about Bettina, I brought it here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn7;2688035;
    No kidding! I know that I came right out and picked Bettina and DeAnna being the F1/2. I saw something between them (Bettina) that was unmistakeable but, after the HTD, something obviously changed. I didn't have a personal interest in the outcome nor was I emotionally invested. So, when I see Brad, who was Mr. Wonderful and Mr. McDroolly and Mr. Fabulous, by many, now being called everything from gay, to emotionally unavailable, he has fathered illegitimate children (interesting if you are gay, but whatever) to he has issues, etc., I just don't get that either. Why was it so wrong to NOT pick someone. I certainly didn't expect it until later in the series (now I know better).

    DeAnna went to the ATFRC in all black, including the nail polish, and, to me, that was just TOO dramatic. Give me a break. She was crying and sobbing and he broke my heart this and he stabbed me in the heart that. Yet only 4-5 days later she would be honoured to be the next Bachelorette? Uhmm..obviously the confusion that I read between them was not that far off. You just DON'T get over someone that you are in love with that quickly.

    Brad made the right decision for himself and I believe it was the honourable thing to do as opposed to leading these wonderful women along. Could you imagine being told where to put the plates? Uhmm...someone has some control issues if you ask me...LOL Who cares where they go? Who cares if the toilet seat is up...well, okay, in my house of majority women my young manchild has learned, from a young age, to just put everything down, including the seat and lid, we girls have to lift the lid, he has to lift the seat, we all do it, we all put seat and lid down...it's a compromise.

    I feel most badly for Brad. He came into this with the right intentions and has been raked over the coals because he didn't pick anyone. Honestly, would you have picked any of these women?
    The baby/child rumour was out there much earlier in the season. Nothing new. BabyfaceC already addressed that one a couple of times.

    I have no ideas about Brad's sexual orientation, nor do I care. But to say the a guy who has had a girlfriend cannot be gay is illogical to me. Men have been married and some have fathered children yet have been gay. They may have been in denial or using the children/girlfriend/marriage as a cover.

    I saw the toilet seat as an excuse. DeAnna did not say it would be an issue the first time, I saw this as Brad being rigid. I do not know any households that the toilet seat ever stays up, especially once the kids come along, way to easy for things to end up in the toilet or flushed.

    As for the dishes, I am sure it is easier for the cook to set up the things that flow better for him or her. We know that Brad's own admission and him not denying it when DeAnna brought up the fact that Brad's mom mentioned that Brad does not cook, that Brad does not cook.

    If someone really cares were the plates go or how the toothpaste gets squeezed as an issue to not get together, then obviously there are bigger issues there. These to me are non issues and easily dealt with in a loving relationship. Can Brad deal with compromises?

    I saw this more as Brad set in his ways. Here is my pad you can be here, but it will be mine leave everything as is.

    How does anybody really know that Brad went on the Bachelor because he truly wants to settle down and in his heart and mind he wants to settle down. That would be the only right reason for going on the show.

    At Jenni's HTD, Brad mentioned that his brothers were married. This is not a good enough reason for Brad to get married, unless he has the desire to get married himself, and not to stop being the fifth wheel.

    Brad admitted he has issues. Knowing that, why go on the show at all.

    DeAnna did not heal because Brad never spoke in the past or as a complete this is a no deal at the FRC. Interestingly enough Brad still did not speak in the past at the ATFR ceremony. Hopefully DeAnna can quickly get over the fact that it was not her that miss read Brad. Brad sent out the wrong messages. DeAnna has being putting a joyous front up for 2 1/2 months, what makes anyone so sure she is not putting up a front now. I am sure having a truly loving family telling her it is not her fault and playing back the tape. Maybe seeing the shut off look in Brad's eyes at the FRC and at the ATFR will help DeAnna understand Brad is just not right for her. DeAnna deserves so much better, then what Brad can offer her. At least Brad was right about that one.

  9. #59
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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    Quote Originally Posted by babyfaceC
    So should he be with DeAnna because she is a great girl and has all the qualities he can see himself with or should he wait til he's in love. Maybe the successfully married FORTers should answer that. I'm thinking the butterflies associated with love are more important than someone fitting a an ideal mold
    Although I was disappointed in the outcome (for my own selfish reasons ) I think Brad did the right thing for Brad. And that's the crux of it isn't it? That we all do what we feel is in our best interest? I agree that he didn't exactly proceed in the manner in which we would hope a guy who "just didn't see it happening" would proceed. I think we can all see the confusion that these girls experienced because of his inability to be more examining and truthful with himself earlier in the process. Of course it doesn't excuse the mixed messages he was sending after the fact.

    But in the end, I think he did the right thing, and it's not because I have a particular affinity for Brad or think he traversed this journey with any amount of decorum or correctitude. Quite the contrary actually. But it's a process, and I think he may have honestly been swept up in that process. He may have been too busy chasing those ever elusive (Utopian Bred) "Butterflies" - hoping he could capture and cage them forever - to examine how he was actually feeling about Deanna and/or Jenni.

    I don't know Jenni or Deanna (and don't pretend to know anything about them from the total sum of what I've seen on a television program) but they should actually count themselves lucky that Brad didn't follow through with the charade he found himself living at the end. We can't know these people's hearts, not truly what they feel - and I'd much rather see it happen as it did, than to have Brad marry Deanna/Jenni, have children - and then move on because he no longer feels his Monarchs fluttering.

    No...although not ideal for the viewing audience, it's a much better outcome for the girls rather than going forward in a relationship that is by no means true to heart and soul for one of the participants. I hope both girls find someone deserving of their hearts, thoughts, and trust.

    Brad seems to want to be ready for marriage, but I think he's neither equipped nor qualified to be anyone's husband at this point. He has no "issues" as far as I'm concerned, that's mere pop psychology that the audience, and Brad himself, has bought into. He just has some personal growth to experience in life before he'll be ready to settle down. Most of that growth will include learning that butterflies can indeed be lasting, but are rarely the same species as the initial ilk.

    The type of love required for a happy marriage beyond the immediate gratification of a queasy stomach, takes work - but it's a "good work". It's growing together, and it's acceptance, and it becomes a very meaningful journey. And it can sometimes be a choice, a choice and a committment to that journey.

    One of the most truthful and meaningful things I've ever heard with regards to long term love - was said by this elderly man who was celebrating his 60th wedding anniversary. The local reporter inevitably asked the couple:

    "What's your secret for such a long, successful marriage?"

    ...and his reply

    "We both never fell out of love at the same time."
    Last edited by dodie430; 11-23-2007 at 10:09 AM.

  10. #60
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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    Quote Originally Posted by MomLady;2688186;
    I took this post from the Bettina thread. Since it was not about Bettina, I brought it here.



    The baby/child rumour was out there much earlier in the season. Nothing new. BabyfaceC already addressed that one a couple of times.

    I have no ideas about Brad's sexual orientation, nor do I care. But to say the a guy who has had a girlfriend cannot be gay is illogical to me. Men have been married and some have fathered children yet have been gay. They may have been in denial or using the children/girlfriend/marriage as a cover.

    I saw the toilet seat as an excuse. DeAnna did not say it would be an issue the first time, I saw this as Brad being rigid. I do not know any households that the toilet seat ever stays up, especially once the kids come along, way to easy for things to end up in the toilet or flushed.

    As for the dishes, I am sure it is easier for the cook to set up the things that flow better for him or her. We know that Brad's own admission and him not denying it when DeAnna brought up the fact that Brad's mom mentioned that Brad does not cook, that Brad does not cook.

    If someone really cares were the plates go or how the toothpaste gets squeezed as an issue to not get together, then obviously there are bigger issues there. These to me are non issues and easily dealt with in a loving relationship. Can Brad deal with compromises?

    I saw this more as Brad set in his ways. Here is my pad you can be here, but it will be mine leave everything as is.

    How does anybody really know that Brad went on the Bachelor because he truly wants to settle down and in his heart and mind he wants to settle down. That would be the only right reason for going on the show.

    At Jenni's HTD, Brad mentioned that his brothers were married. This is not a good enough reason for Brad to get married, unless he has the desire to get married himself, and not to stop being the fifth wheel.

    Brad admitted he has issues. Knowing that, why go on the show at all.

    DeAnna did not heal because Brad never spoke in the past or as a complete this is a no deal at the FRC. Interestingly enough Brad still did not speak in the past at the ATFR ceremony. Hopefully DeAnna can quickly get over the fact that it was not her that miss read Brad. Brad sent out the wrong messages. DeAnna has being putting a joyous front up for 2 1/2 months, what makes anyone so sure she is not putting up a front now. I am sure having a truly loving family telling her it is not her fault and playing back the tape. Maybe seeing the shut off look in Brad's eyes at the FRC and at the ATFR will help DeAnna understand Brad is just not right for her. DeAnna deserves so much better, then what Brad can offer her. At least Brad was right about that one.



    Well Momlady, since this was first posted in the Bettina thread. Perhaps, a Bettina crew member should respond.

    I have highlighted the issues I am responding to.

    I don't think we will ever really know the true reason Brad came on the show. We can continue to speculate all we want but it will still be speculation.

    BabyfaceC has addressed the issue of Brad talking to DeAnna ATFR. He said the filming of this scene took a long time. (to lazy to look up post for exact information.) He said Brad spent quite a bit of time talking to DeAnna and answering her questions..then he was told the light was fading and he had to wrap it up. That's where we get, what appeared to be a very cold farewell. He told Deanne he had to walk her out.

    He also said, Brad talked to her AFTRC for awhile but did not say anything different then he had already told her. How many different ways can a person say.... I am not in love with you.

    I see this as a personality flaw with DeAnna, I never understood where Brad got that she was a strong person. What I saw from the beginning is she was controling.

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