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Thread: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

  1. #31
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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    In some ways, this is just the classic Mars-Venus problem. Many women find it perfectly natural to fall in love with one person. For many men, monogamy seems unnatural. I think the most revealing thing that Brad said is: When I was with Jenni, I was thinking about DeAnna, and vice versa.

    However, I also think Brad behaved like a real jerk, and he is deserving of all the contempt we can muster.

    It's somewhat ironic that he followed the normal Bachelor script up till the end. In the days leading up to the FRC, the Bachelor usually proclaims how he has such strong feelings for both women, and how confused and conflicted he is. I always hoped that the guy was lying. How can he be hopelessly confused and conflicted one day, then present one lady with a ring--or even an invitation to a journey--the very next? Real relationships don't happen on a schedule.

    In Brad's case, the script was true. He had strong feelings for more than one woman. In such a case, he's just not ready to be in an exclusive relationship, even a going-steady high-school-type relationship. Until he's willing to be monogamous, no relationship should go very far.

  2. #32
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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    I liked this season. I think that it had all the makings of a fine drama filled reality tv show.

    I think that Brad did the right thing, because I would rather see him dump them both than select one and maybe hurt a heart more.

  3. #33
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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhiannara;2686475;
    Oh my first post. I lurked through half of last season and all of this and have been VERY impressed with this board. The funniest recaps, the best sleuthers and some very good insights. Most of the time I didn't need to say anything because someone else said it for me.

    This time I have a little extra insight no one else has mentioned. Poor Deana. She could not understand why this man lavished such attention and affection on her and then at crunch time, turned it all off like a light switch. Gone, just like that. I gave my heart totally to a man like that and was nearly destroyed by his behavior. Why Why Why... until you understand you cannot move on. If anyone has any connections, please tell Deanna and the others to go to the nearest library or bookstore and get a book called "Men Who Can't Love". My therapist gave it to me. It describes commitmentphobes. Not ordinary, garden variety jerks, asses and so on. Truly phobic people who react to commitment with frantic terror... like a claustrophobe in a cave. Once their phobia is triggered, they panic and want out of the "cave" like someone fleeing a fire. No sense of anyone but themselves. At that moment when the phobia kicks in, all feelings are supressed and it becomes all about fear and self preservation. BRAD is identical in behavior to the man I knew. Read the book, you will recognize him immediately. The praise, the attention, saying all the right things in a believable way,right up to the moment you surrender to it and respond "I love you too". And then BAM. It vanishes faster than you can say "why?". It's a true phobia and requires therapy. The cute thing about this type of man is that once the pressure is off and he's safely distant, he starts to come back and repeat the whole thing again. Deanna's willingness to give Brad a second chance is also typical of what happens when you get involved with a commitment phobe. The cycle repeats, only over a shorter time. It can continue repeating with a woman who never figures out what is happening. I was so devastated I got therapy, and I read the book. When my phobic guy came around again several months later, I handed him a copy of the book I'd bought for him, told him to read it and get therapy. Like Brad, he knew something was "off" about him and he DID recognize himself and he did go for therapy. And then he promptly found a new girlfriend.
    Meet a guy like this and you are safest if you RUN, not walk, as far as you can get from him.
    I hope someone sends Deanna the book. It will answer her questions. I recognized what Brad was in those last 3 episodes. Yes he can look mean if cornered, can't he? He's phobic and he wants to get out of the situation immediately if not faster.
    When everything dies down, Deana, even Jenni may hear from him again. My advice? Hang up. and find a better man.

    That said, I am sick of Bachelors, as the previous poster mentioned, it's a pyschological recipe for disaster. Let's have a Bachlorette instead and make these guys work for it! I hated this season.

    Oh and boy was it lame-o for ABC to parade Trista & Ryan, Mary & Byron on the ATFR to look better. Tho it WAS great to see them again. Byron is the only bachelor I ever found attractive LOL, the rest were never my type. He's gained weight which no doubt means he is in happy husband mode... hee hee.
    hey rhiannara
    sorry shoulder surgery, so can only type with my left hand, and thus all lowecase. i realize it is difficult to read, and worse to write.

    ..great first post rhianarra, and welcome to the fort. i think you are right on the money about brad being a commitment phobe, and your description of such. sorry you had to endure that, but good on you for seeking help and also asisting your ex.

    it would appear brad is not quite there yet. but what you described here would certainly sum up brad and his horrific, and cold, cruel interactions of dismissing deanna and hurrying her to the limo with no concern or compassion, or simple regard for her. brad looked angry and actually bordering on hostile in his callous and cruel rejection of deanna, and shutting her out of any further contect. the man tossed her to the curb, as if she was yesterday's trash. none of it made sense...and he had a very scary, frightening look in his eyes, and his face changed. he seemed unstable and diabolical to me. nothing seemed to be as the brad we knew.

    i think reading this book might be good for deanna..and perhaps if you put this post in the deanna folder on this page, she might see it, or someone from her family might. it looks like her dad and friends posted there.also if you put this post in the spoiler section in thoughts and general comments folder, a friend and business associate of brad's posts there named babyfacec/jason posts there, and maybe he will let brad see it. although sadly jason seems as in denial as brad is of doing anything wrong. jason stated that brad was not insensitive in his rejection of jenni or deanna, and seems busy defending every ugly move, word and action brad did. thanks for sharing and posting rhianarra.
    karey

  4. #34
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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    So I finally talked about this with my DH last night, who saw part of the final episode. He thought Brad was inarticulate and awkward, didn't blame him for dumping both women, thought it was okay that he wanted lightning to strike instead of working on a relationship over time like we did ("that's his choice, and he's allowed to make it"), is convinced Jenni and DeAnna will be happier with others, and thought Fleiss's rejected ending of showing Brad in his underwear with a remote and a submarine sandwich would have been hysterically funny ("because it would have made this guy look like the tool that he is"). He also thinks that Brad has convinced himself he's ready to settle down but isn't really. It's on some mental "should" list that doesn't relate to Brad's real feelings. So DH thinks Brad went on because he thought he ought to get married, not because he really wanted to.

  5. #35
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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    I think the only two people who came out of this "smelling like a rose" are Jenni and Deanna.

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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    Quote Originally Posted by lalawmom;2685619;
    He played the game. The whole show is one big game. I have never bought the premise that there is true love at the end of dating a whole bunch of people simultaneously. That is part of the game and he played.

    The ending did not make it dysfunctional. The way he played it was. Get the dad flown in. Say sweet nothings to make one or both girls believe and I do mean believe that he was for real and into the game. And then be all hurt and "Boo-hoo" poor me, the lady is shutting me out after I told her goodbye. I care about both ladies so much, I have very real feelings for both, I think about both of them all the time. But Buh-Bye. That is the warped part. That is the dysfunctional part.

    lalawmom - great assessment of the situation. I find it difficult to believe some actually admire Brad for handling it the way he did. I can't find anything to admire! This warped, dysfunctional man needs help.

  7. #37
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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    Quote Originally Posted by JoanRanger;2686374;
    As a therapist, I've long had thoughts as to why "The Bachelor" can't seem to produce a successful long-term relationship ending in marriage. I believe it all comes down to how competition and conquest play out in the show.

    Males typically have a need to compete, particularly when it comes to romance. Men love the thrill of the chase--it makes them willing to do all sorts of crazy things in order to "win" the heart of the woman they (think they) love. Remove the thrill of the chase, and there's almost nothing left. It's a rare man who values a woman who is too "easy to get."

    "The Bachelor," by its very design, is all about 25 women competing for the attention of one man. Given basic human nature, it's a recipe for romantic disaster. First, the producers start with a man who is already used to attention, usually for both his looks and his money (and/or position). Then they make him the center of attention, creating an atmosphere where normally self-respecting women are forced to compete to make an impression on him. They turn the tables completely. Suddenly, there's no thrill of the chase at all. Rather, the man has to practically fend off all sorts of gorgeous women throwing themselves at him.

    Is it any wonder that several of the bachelors have gravitated (I'd say "taken refuge in") the women who seemed at least a little more hard to get?

    And no matter how well-grounded the man might be when this "process" starts, he almost can't help but believe his own press by the end of the show. So even when he finally settles on his favorite, he has absorbed the notion that he's something truly special, worthy of all that competition. How is any one woman--no matter how much of a perfect goddess she may be--ever going to satisfy his now completely overblown ego?

    This show, as I said, has every componant for romantic disaster.

    However, reverse roles (as in "The Bachelorette"), and you have a workable formula. The male's natural drive to compete for a woman's attention plays out 25-fold in "The Bachelorette." That explains why Ryan Sutter still seems to think he won some sort of "prize" in Trista. It's why "The Bachelorette" was the only one of these shows that produced a marriage.
    JoanRanger - I totally disagree with your view of the man's and the woman's "natural" roles. In my experience, I see women being just as competitive as men whether it be in romance, sports or the workplace. Your comments regarding the artificial situation set up with "The Bachelor" apply equally to what occurs in the "The Bachelorette." It is an extremely difficult way to find real love, and it is amazing to me when it actually happens.

  8. #38
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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    Quote Originally Posted by JoanRanger;2686374;
    As a therapist, I've long had thoughts as to why "The Bachelor" can't seem to produce a successful long-term relationship ending in marriage. I believe it all comes down to how competition and conquest play out in the show.

    Males typically have a need to compete, particularly when it comes to romance. Men love the thrill of the chase--it makes them willing to do all sorts of crazy things in order to "win" the heart of the woman they (think they) love. Remove the thrill of the chase, and there's almost nothing left. It's a rare man who values a woman who is too "easy to get."

    "The Bachelor," by its very design, is all about 25 women competing for the attention of one man. Given basic human nature, it's a recipe for romantic disaster. First, the producers start with a man who is already used to attention, usually for both his looks and his money (and/or position). Then they make him the center of attention, creating an atmosphere where normally self-respecting women are forced to compete to make an impression on him. They turn the tables completely. Suddenly, there's no thrill of the chase at all. Rather, the man has to practically fend off all sorts of gorgeous women throwing themselves at him.

    I will say this about watching this show, it really does give a birds eye view into human nature and particularly male/female nature. Almost every single season it manifests itself the same and the result is almost always the same. How many Bachelor's have not gone on after the conclusion of the show (including those who choose a woman in the end) to dissapoint because they end up being somewhat narcissistic and so much less savory than the viewing audience ever thought as a result of belief of their own hype, even if they really are/were extremely nice men before?
    Is it any wonder that several of the bachelors have gravitated (I'd say "taken refuge in") the women who seemed at least a little more hard to get?

    And no matter how well-grounded the man might be when this "process" starts, he almost can't help but believe his own press by the end of the show. So even when he finally settles on his favorite, he has absorbed the notion that he's something truly special, worthy of all that competition. How is any one woman--no matter how much of a perfect goddess she may be--ever going to satisfy his now completely overblown ego?

    This show, as I said, has every componant for romantic disaster.

    However, reverse roles (as in "The Bachelorette"), and you have a workable formula. The male's natural drive to compete for a woman's attention plays out 25-fold in "The Bachelorette." That explains why Ryan Sutter still seems to think he won some sort of "prize" in Trista. It's why "The Bachelorette" was the only one of these shows that produced a marriage.
    So absolutely 100% true. I could not agree with what you said more. Many people think this notion is antiquated and that the rise of the women's liberation movement has somehow made society more progressive about these things (although I am not sure what is progressive about 25 women throwing themselves at a man- that notion seems ridiculous to me).

    I can absolutely say as a 27 year old female (yes I am more conservative than most due to my Christian faith and thus may have less progressive notions of relationship), that I can 100% vouch for the fact that men still today in my generation do not marry the girl who's heart they did not have to fight for. Andy and Tessa were the perfect example of that last season. the truth is that while cultural norms of behavior have changed, men and women have not fundamentally changed in nature. The Bachelor almost always chooses the woman who has been more reserved with her emotion and who intrigues him because she stays to the back a bit and does not readily offer her emotion or physical affection. I think that Deanna (and Bettina actually) was ultimately that girl this season. However, you are right that in the end there is no way for the male ego to not win out on this show. The Bachelor believes his own press about his irresistability and even when they do commit, i.e. Andy, they kind of don't. Brad won both of the women's hearts, constantly got reassurance that he had done so (even from Deanna's dad- yikes Brad really bad form) and then turned tail like a spooked horse. That just seems commitmentphobic to me, which is a completely separate issue.

    It has always made more sense why the Bachelorette "works" simply because of the competitive nature of men. They want to win, probably far more than they actually are swooning over the woman. The female ego is so completely different than males as well so once she has her Prince Charming, which is much more of a female objective, it is highly unlilkely she is going to let him go because she believes that if 25 men will fight for her than there must be more men who will. In the end honestly how many Bachelors have gone on to reveal themselves to be kind of unsavory and so much more narcissistic than we originally thought (hi Travis, Bob, Andy) even if before the show they were the sweetest guys in the world? The altered reality of the show gives them an altered sense of who they are in reality, difference is sadly women will still go after that guy so they continue down that road.
    Last edited by appiah01; 11-22-2007 at 10:43 AM.

  9. #39
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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    Quote Originally Posted by DayByDay;2687117;
    JoanRanger - I totally disagree with your view of the man's and the woman's "natural" roles. In my experience, I see women being just as competitive as men whether it be in romance, sports or the workplace. Your comments regarding the artificial situation set up with "The Bachelor" apply equally to what occurs in the "The Bachelorette." It is an extremely difficult way to find real love, and it is amazing to me when it actually happens.
    I actually don't think that is what she is saying. Yes women are extremely competitive by nature probably even more so, and more viciously so, than men. However when it comes to competing for a man the methods of effective competition are different. There is a reason why The Rules actually worked (at least in attracting men). There is a reason that playing hard to get is effective, why withholding a bit actually pulls a man in and intrigues him. Those actions are no less competitive (think about Bettina playing the role of the woman of mystery in the house. Got her very far even though she really isn't that mysterious). Other women recognize this competitive behavior and recognize that often it is a game and not the actual nature of the woman. However to a man it appeals to their desire for conquest and makes them feel they are winning something. A man needs to feel like he is working for something. It sounds very arcane but I really believe it is true. I truly believe that male/ female nature has not changed all that much despite shifts in sociocultural norms.

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    Re: Final Thoughts on Bachelor 11

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhiannara;2686475;
    Oh my first post. I lurked through half of last season and all of this and have been VERY impressed with this board. The funniest recaps, the best sleuthers and some very good insights. Most of the time I didn't need to say anything because someone else said it for me.

    This time I have a little extra insight no one else has mentioned. Poor Deana. She could not understand why this man lavished such attention and affection on her and then at crunch time, turned it all off like a light switch. Gone, just like that. I gave my heart totally to a man like that and was nearly destroyed by his behavior. Why Why Why... until you understand you cannot move on. If anyone has any connections, please tell Deanna and the others to go to the nearest library or bookstore and get a book called "Men Who Can't Love". My therapist gave it to me. It describes commitmentphobes. Not ordinary, garden variety jerks, asses and so on. Truly phobic people who react to commitment with frantic terror... like a claustrophobe in a cave. Once their phobia is triggered, they panic and want out of the "cave" like someone fleeing a fire. No sense of anyone but themselves. At that moment when the phobia kicks in, all feelings are supressed and it becomes all about fear and self preservation. BRAD is identical in behavior to the man I knew. Read the book, you will recognize him immediately. The praise, the attention, saying all the right things in a believable way,right up to the moment you surrender to it and respond "I love you too". And then BAM. It vanishes faster than you can say "why?". It's a true phobia and requires therapy. The cute thing about this type of man is that once the pressure is off and he's safely distant, he starts to come back and repeat the whole thing again. Deanna's willingness to give Brad a second chance is also typical of what happens when you get involved with a commitment phobe. The cycle repeats, only over a shorter time. It can continue repeating with a woman who never figures out what is happening. I was so devastated I got therapy, and I read the book. When my phobic guy came around again several months later, I handed him a copy of the book I'd bought for him, told him to read it and get therapy. Like Brad, he knew something was "off" about him and he DID recognize himself and he did go for therapy. And then he promptly found a new girlfriend.
    Meet a guy like this and you are safest if you RUN, not walk, as far as you can get from him.
    I hope someone sends Deanna the book. It will answer her questions. I recognized what Brad was in those last 3 episodes. Yes he can look mean if cornered, can't he? He's phobic and he wants to get out of the situation immediately if not faster.
    When everything dies down, Deana, even Jenni may hear from him again. My advice? Hang up. and find a better man.

    That said, I am sick of Bachelors, as the previous poster mentioned, it's a pyschological recipe for disaster. Let's have a Bachlorette instead and make these guys work for it! I hated this season.

    Oh and boy was it lame-o for ABC to parade Trista & Ryan, Mary & Byron on the ATFR to look better. Tho it WAS great to see them again. Byron is the only bachelor I ever found attractive LOL, the rest were never my type. He's gained weight which no doubt means he is in happy husband mode... hee hee.

    Would just like to say thank you for posting this - I too had read Men Who Can't Love after a devastating relationship w/a Commitment phobe - and you are correct - NOT the garden variety jerk - they have serious issues. It was obvious Brad has the same behavior - deer in the headlights looks, shutting down, distancing, etc.

    I'm writing this post however in the hopes that someone WILL tell Deanna about this book - it was my bible as I was healing and helped SO much.

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