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Thread: What is it about this season that worked while the others haven't?

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    Premium Member jelle's Avatar
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    So why do you think this series (Charlie & Sarah) worked and others didn't?

    By all predictions and pre-information, Charlie should have just been in this for a lark and some giggles. And remember all the bimbettes on this show?
    Why was he able to have fun on the show, whereas Travis and Lorz only wanted it to end and put it behind them by half way through?

    Charlie was comfortable with filming and being in the spotlight. Did that enable him to be more in control of the situation? After JenS, Fleiss had to have a good show.
    Charlie was just himself and got to date both for extra time. Did that make the difference? But I don't think this would have made any difference to other bachelors, like Lorz or Travis

    Fleiss needs to look back on this series after the less than enthusiastic results on the last two. Good bachelors - no results.
    Last edited by Jewelsy; 01-13-2007 at 11:03 PM. Reason: split threads
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  2. #2
    His Peace after the Storm cafegirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jelle;2202447;
    So why do you think this series worked and others didn't?

    By all predictions and pre-information, Charlie should have just been in this for a lark and some giggles. And remember all the bimbettes on this show?
    Why was he able to have fun on the show, whereas Travis and Lorz only wanted it to end and put it behind them by half way through?

    Charlie was comfortable with filming and being in the spotlight. Did that enable him to be more in control of the situation? After JenS, Fleiss had to have a good show.
    Charlie was just himself and got to date both for extra time. Did that make the difference? But I don't think this would have made any difference to other bachelors, like Lorz or Travis

    Fleiss needs to look back on this series after the less than enthusiastic results on the last two. Good bachelors - no results.
    I agree Jelle, and this was the show I made the most fun of before it started and had the least expectations for, but ended up with this being one of my favorite series.
    Here's my 2 bits about why it was so successful. First and foremost, Charlie seemed to have enough pull (either contract wise or connections wise) to do the show his way. He was the one who wanted "regular" dates that he would go on during a 'real' date and he was the one who wanted the more casual rose ceremonies where the girls got to talk before the handing out of the roses. Plus, he got them to agree to let him date both of the final 2 girls in the end because he wasn't ready to make a decision. And other than a couple staged dates, I got the impression they let him make the dates and the phone calls w/o the cameras and crew. I feel that's where he really fell for Sarah, although I always believed she was more of his choice from fairly early on. He brought a lot of humor to the shows and could see through the 'acts' of the 'bimbettes'!! This was also the first season that they started the 1/1 dates w/ get a rose or get the boot!
    If Fleiss would just realize that over the top, fairy tale dates and contrived story lines don't equate to natural dating where relationships have a better chance of being developed, we might have more 'success' couples.
    Sadly, what hurt that series were the poor ratings, but honestly I don't think they had as much to do w/ the relaxed format, but more with so many fans being disgusted w/ the Jen disaster series, that they refused to watch the next series. The ratings have never been as high as they were w/ Jen's and the earlier series, and sadly Jen helped nail the coffin shut! The last two series have had better ratings than Charlies, but not nearly as realistic an approach to getting to know the girls. If makes you wonder what would have happened w/ Travis and Lorenzo and their final 2 choices if they had been allowed to continue dating until the finale of the show. Well, Travis probably wouldn't have changed his mind, because I know from inside sources that he pretty much was ready to get out a little over half way through the filming. Lorenzo's decision might have been more interesting! Just a thought!
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  3. #3
    Premium Member jelle's Avatar
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    Good thoughts, Cafegirl.

    First and foremost, Charlie seemed to have enough pull (either contract wise or connections wise) to do the show his way.
    This I think was paramont. But then, he must have known what he wanted, and had the resources to figure out what he was walking into. Travis got contract concessions also, and it didn't help.

    He was the one who wanted "regular" dates that he would go on during a 'real' date
    This, I think, is the real way to get to know people. Fleiss was also trying to save $$ and do it on the cheap. Even though many didn't like the bar scene, I think it served its purpose and showed personalities fairly well.

    and he was the one who wanted the more casual rose ceremonies where the girls got to talk before the handing out of the roses.
    I hated this and thought it lead to cattiness that was unnecessary, but then maybe it too served its purpose of showing true colors.

    Plus, he got them to agree to let him date both of the final 2 girls in the end because he wasn't ready to make a decision.
    For him, that may have worked. I think, however it may have been more to save Krisily's feelings than indecision. For either Travis or Lorz, I don't think it mattered. Neither were at the point of finding a "partner."

    And other than a couple staged dates, I got the impression they let him make the dates and the phone calls w/o the cameras and crew.
    There was no alternate personality to Charlie. You saw what you got - sober or drunk, sweet or caustic.

    I wonder on the LtAndy show if they will let him have more say in the dates and activities as they are on his home turf. Could they be using the LOST location for some of the filming, since they already have a contract for that?? I think they shoud go back to some of the things in the Charlie series and some of the things in the Byron series. I don't remember details of the Andrew series or before to cite that one.
    "Know that you are not the master of your days, but the pioneer of their purpose"
    "My policy: no stone throwing regardless of housing situation." moanamarie
    "well, I am on the right side of the grass." brad womack
    "Create your future.You are not a victim of the world but the hero of your own life"

  4. #4
    Fort Blondie BlondieGal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jelle;2202647;

    I wonder on the LtAndy show if they will let him have more say in the dates and activities as they are on his home turf. Could they be using the LOST location for some of the filming, since they already have a contract for that?? I think they shoud go back to some of the things in the Charlie series and some of the things in the Byron series. I don't remember details of the Andrew series or before to cite that one.
    Excellent thoughts Jelle and Cafegirl! I was also thinking about what worked on Byron's series because that produced a long-term relationship too between Byron and Mary. For that series Byron stayed on the same grounds as the ladies by living in the guest house on the mansion's property. He was very close to everything that was happening with the ladies, found out the true personalities himself, and was able to spend more time with them. I hope that Andy will be able to stay in close proximity to the ladies ~ that in itself may help.
    And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know ~ Kansas

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    With Byron, the big difference was that Mary was brought in. She wasn't in the first 25 so if the show had followed the rules, it wouldn't have had a successful ending. I don't think we ever knew why Mary and the other girl(forgot her name) were brought back. Maybe it was because Byron told the producer no girl there interested him and maybe he threatened to quit if Fleiss didn't do something about it. Thus the decision to bring in 2 new girls.

    In Travis serie, if indeed he wanted to quit halfway through, perhaps it was that he didn't feel any connection with the girls. Bringing in new girls in may have changed the outcome.

    I don't think the batchelor should choose the girls. Jen did and it was a disaster. Fleiss should do the choosing but.. why not bring in a few girls to spice things up a little bit. Maybe it wouldn't be fair for the original girls but maybe it would increase the chance of having a successful ending.

  6. #6
    His Peace after the Storm cafegirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlondieGal;2202753;
    Excellent thoughts Jelle and Cafegirl! I was also thinking about what worked on Byron's series because that produced a long-term relationship too between Byron and Mary. For that series Byron stayed on the same grounds as the ladies by living in the guest house on the mansion's property. He was very close to everything that was happening with the ladies, found out the true personalities himself, and was able to spend more time with them. I hope that Andy will be able to stay in close proximity to the ladies ~ that in itself may help.
    I agree, Blondie, I think Byron got to know his bachelorettes better than any of the others, but I don't think it was quite as open to drop in visits as we may think. I remember Tanya saying to him at one rose ceremony (remember Byron was the one who got to select 3 women to talk to privately before the rose ceremony), that she hadn't seen him hardly all week. But they did have more casual a setting to get to know each other. I always thought that the pajama party at the mansion was where Byron really started falling in love w/ Mary when they had their 1/1 time and she was thinking about leaving and he basicly talked her out of it). You could really see the affection he was already feeling for her.
    If the producers and editors were smart, they would look back over the past seasons to see what worked the best in each of them and formulate this next show based on those ideas. Of course, this won't happen, because Fleiss seems to love 'over the top' story lines they can drill us into numbed oblivion with and over inflate the theme until we're ready to upchuck!!
    "I can do all things through Him who strengthens me!"

  7. #7
    His Peace after the Storm cafegirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montrealgirl;2202836;
    With Byron, the big difference was that Mary was brought in. She wasn't in the first 25 so if the show had followed the rules, it wouldn't have had a successful ending. I don't think we ever knew why Mary and the other girl(forgot her name) were brought back. Maybe it was because Byron told the producer no girl there interested him and maybe he threatened to quit if Fleiss didn't do something about it. Thus the decision to bring in 2 new girls.

    In Travis serie, if indeed he wanted to quit halfway through, perhaps it was that he didn't feel any connection with the girls. Bringing in new girls in may have changed the outcome.

    I don't think the batchelor should choose the girls. Jen did and it was a disaster. Fleiss should do the choosing but.. why not bring in a few girls to spice things up a little bit. Maybe it wouldn't be fair for the original girls but maybe it would increase the chance of having a successful ending.
    Not a bad thought, Montealgirl. Just for fun to go with that idea, here's a fun exercise to do while we await the next show, who would you suggest they bring in for Bachelor Andy, keeping in mind his background and his interests (such as the sports, etc) that he likes. Any suggestions, anyone? (I'd say go back to any season, for our fun dream scenario.)
    I'll have to think about it and post later!
    "I can do all things through Him who strengthens me!"

  8. #8
    Fort Blondie BlondieGal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafegirl;2202852;
    Not a bad thought, Montealgirl. Just for fun to go with that idea, here's a fun exercise to do while we await the next show, who would you suggest they bring in for Bachelor Andy, keeping in mind his background and his interests (such as the sports, etc) that he likes. Any suggestions, anyone? (I'd say go back to any season, for our fun dream scenario.)
    I'll have to think about it and post later!
    Interesting question Cafegirl. Probably Mary, but she is already taken.
    And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know ~ Kansas

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    Forum Assistant Arielflies's Avatar
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    Interesting idea. Okay - if she is ready for this madness again - I say bring back Moana. Athletically, she is a surfer and she won the bike race on the spa date. She is very quirky, sure, but she is intelligent and probably knows what she wants at this point - which is to stay far away from the madness. Although, she is an active member in the bachelor sorority, so she hasn't distanced herself that far away. Aw, heck...bring in Moana when the guy's eyes start to glaze and spark things up.
    The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. Dorothy Parker, (attributed)

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    a&r sanlee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arielflies;2202957;
    Interesting idea. Okay - if she is ready for this madness again - I say bring back Moana. Athletically, she is a surfer and she won the bike race on the spa date. She is very quirky, sure, but she is intelligent and probably knows what she wants at this point - which is to stay far away from the madness. Although, she is an active member in the bachelor sorority, so she hasn't distanced herself that far away. Aw, heck...bring in Moana when the guy's eyes start to glaze and spark things up.

    I agree! I loved Moana and would like to see her come back for Andy. Or get her own show. I have her on my space and she seems to be doing pretty well.
    Roberto: "Ali wakes me up in the middle of the night to tell me she's dreaming about puppies... The smile on her face was priceless."

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