Sleuthing the final 15 ladies **Spoilers**

[KathnToast]

More speculation here:

I was thinking about how we think Jake will come off like a jerk for letting Ella go and telling her she should be with her son, and thinking if there were any way that the situation could plausibly make Jake appear to be a great, compassionate guy. Then I remembered that this date was originally intended to be for Rozlyn and her son. And it would seem from seasons past that there's ALWAYS a one on one date, generally in Ep 3 or 4, where the person doesn't get a rose and is sent home. It's obviously scripted. The lead (or TPTB) choose someone "expendable", give them their dream date (the Cinderella date for Natalie, the fast & furious date date for Sasha, the SeaWorld date for the single mom & son). Which means - Rozlyn was going to go home on that date anyways. Also remember that, to make it that much more pitiable and sad (according to some information put out there by ABC at some point, although I know we've heard differently on occasion) Rozlyn's son has special needs.

So picture the poor, pathetic scenario the ABC had planned out for this date. The "poor special needs boy" (please don't take that as offensive, I've got two such boys myself - I'm just saying how the show will spin it) comes onto the show and, while he has a great time, occasionally starts crying about how much he misses his Mommy and needs her at home. And Jake, being the compassionate guy that he is who truly loves children and only wants what's best for them, especially such a poor special needs boys as this, tells Mommy Dearest that while he cares for her, her son truly needs her right now.

Then think about how they could GUARANTEE that outcome. How do you make sure a little boy (with special needs) will perform on command, tell his Mom how much he misses her, how he wants to talk to her/see her more, so that the lead comes off as this child-loving, deeply caring guy? That may be pretty difficult - children don't perform on command like that, especially special needs ones, and ESPECIALLY when they're facing/in the middle of/ finishing a super fun day at an amusement park that they've had all to themselves. So how can TPTB make sure it works? Simple. You promise the Mom (who promises the kid) that they'll have phone access whenever they want, and can talk every night. And then you make it not happen, so the boy misses his Mom like crazy,( and if he truly IS special needs, may think she's gone for good - I know mine might). Guaranteed children's tears. Worth it's weight in ratings gold. Shoot, special needs children's tears is probably worth it's weight in platinum.

it's sick. But I'm betting that when Ella's date comes up, they manage to make her little man cry about how much he misses Mommy and needs her, and Jake gets to play the compassionate fake-father figure for 2 minutes. And all of America swoons.

[Luvstruck]

Thank you for the info. I love her but hope she does not become the next B/ette. I hope her short stint on this show helps her realize that Fleiss doesn't have her best interests in mind at all. I don't think I could sit thru another season of "The Most Dramatic Season of The Bachelor-B/ette Ever" again, can't CH come up with another line?

Hopefully Ali & Reid will meet, they would be so so cute together!!!!

[anders332]

Thanks, Ryvetted! yeah, that's a bummer especially since I only average about 3 or 4 in the right order! LOL! Hopefully, I'll get a chance to catch up on all the posts

that's crappy, since the order they are called are not always the order we see them called in. I dont think we Canadians can play though. Can we?

[Alexxxx]

Hopefully Ali & Reid will meet, they would be so so cute together!!!!

It's funny you should say that -- I've often thought that one really compelling reason for these folks to be contestants on these stupid shows is to get an invitation to the reunion shenanigans, and become one of that crowd. Then they can meet lots of great people that may not otherwise have met, lol.

[Beachmom]

This is the spoiler and speculation board, so I am going to point out something that may have you scratching your head, but it is still hard to deny!

We have heard that they cast positions. It is heavily speculated that some are guaranteed at least a certain time.

I have noted these kinds of things in the edit over these last few seasons - people in certain positions often say and do the same things.

Molly F2 was highlighted, so to speak, in her season for what she called her "talent" in kissing. (We know) F2 Tenley asks Jake for a kiss ( which really seems out of character for her).

Molly F2 gives Jason a list of some sort on their Fantasy Date. F2 Tenley gives Jake a list of her attributes.

We know this show is scripted, and we know that the producers often tell them what to say and do because we have heard that the contenders are "studying their lines".

What this suggests to me, folks, by studying the editing is that they had a great idea on the very first night that Tenley was F2.

I asked a long detailed question on the other thread - the RS spoiler one - about how the show is scripted, but no one answered. Can someone PLEASE tell me about this? I was one who, when first watching the shows, thought everything was on the up and up. I know better now, but I'd like to know exactly how much is scripted. As I speculated, I imagine, the producers don't know the WHOLE scenario until they see the chemistry between the "star" and the contestants. Then do they adjust the script?

[Justabachfan]

Ok, now that we know the 12 girls that stay moving on to the 12/9 cut, do we know the order of the dates? If Vienna's 1:1 is first, then she gets the first rose, if Ella's 1:1 date is 1st (no rose), then most likely the Comedy club is the 2nd date, so who gets the rose on that group date? Whomever that is, gets the 1st first rose and Vienna gets the 2nd rose.

[jlccaz]

I asked a long detailed question on the other thread - the RS spoiler one - about how the show is scripted, but no one answered. Can someone PLEASE tell me about this? I was one who, when first watching the shows, thought everything was on the up and up. I know better now, but I'd like to know exactly how much is scripted. As I speculated, I imagine, the producers don't know the WHOLE scenario until they see the chemistry between the "star" and the contestants. Then do they adjust the script?

Too tired to re-compose this, but this is my best take on how they make their sausage at The Bachelor ... (originally posted Aug or Sept 2009)

Replying to above posts about how the show is put together, story boards and the like. The best place to start is the end: the credits rolling at the end of the show. These jobs each carry duties/descriptions that are fairly standard now for "unscripted" TV, but the key people in terms of storytelling are producers and editors.

The producers cast and plan the show and then manage their planned story line during the shoot. Later -- using detailed logs and notes -- they direct the editors toward potentially interesting material and give their general organization/approval. For an hour- or two-hour long program, various producers screen up to 200 hours of footage ... maybe before the editors see a minute of footage.

The editors are the ones who literally create the content we obsess and over-analyze. The editors are the ones who cut and present the scenes to make them "romantic" or goofy, tense, sad.

During filming, junior staffers are charged with virtually transcribing/logging everything that happens on all the hundreds (and hundreds) of hours of footage that are shot from as many as 10 cameras (simultaneously at major shoots like Meet and Greet night), so that all along the way, story and character themes are discussed and teased out of the Set-up's / Situations producers have created (let's make Twilley into a stalker, and David into a Man Code freak; let's set Molly up to be resented by the other girls by having her spend the night in the tent with Jason, let's wake Bettina up in the middle of the night to ooh and ahh over someone else's date).

Show editors can choose among the multiple available story arcs generated from the Set Up's / Situations that have been filmed. Moments that might help illustrate a STORY or a CHARACTER trait are marked (electronically, in the log) all along the way. Story editors (titles can vary) watch hours and hours of footage and suggest Stories for airing. The editors might follow those ideas, or come up with something else.

Like any reality show, the producers/editors of The Bachelor would prefer unscripted drama/conflict/romance -- it makes better TV (I am in the minority but from day one I have 100% contended that Ed removed himself from filming, and then they capitalized on it. I also believe that they capitalized on Jason sincere realization that he and Melissa had no future, and he wanted Molly instead.).

But they have many backup plans, and manipulate people and events so much all along the way, before and after filming, that the assumption has to be that nothing you see reflects "what happened" to the real people, except in flashes of authenticity. Is Jake "perfect"? Was Wes merely promoting his career? Is Reid "quirky"? None of us could remotely comment on that from the 1% of their interactions that were presented on the show.

The storytelling for Jake and his gals is going to be atrocious. They have taken this show to the Dark Side.

I do not think they feed lines literally (no cue cards, in other words), but the In The Moment interviews amount to the same thing because of the way they are taught to answer by taking the question and using it in their answer (genre requires story narration, and that that be done via characters, rather than crew). They are definitely coached on body language -- how to kiss, hold hands, where to stand, put their legs, etc.

"Real" attraction and love can happen -- it happens in every workplace in the world, after all.

And this show is always at its best when the spontaneous dialogue or look or glance or situation arises. But the producers have to hedge their bets -- by silly casting, silly conflicts, silly situations, etc. -- in order to be sure they can fill 8 2 hour episodes with material.

I am REALLY happy this year, incidentally, they cut down on all the "coming up..." and "previously on..." filler junk.

[Bloomers]

I asked a long detailed question on the other thread - the RS spoiler one - about how the show is scripted, but no one answered. Can someone PLEASE tell me about this? I was one who, when first watching the shows, thought everything was on the up and up. I know better now, but I'd like to know exactly how much is scripted. As I speculated, I imagine, the producers don't know the WHOLE scenario until they see the chemistry between the "star" and the contestants. Then do they adjust the script?

Others have seen the storybook boards and have talked to producers, etc. I have done none of those things although I have seriously noted when they have said they have and what they have said. It is obvious that there is a lot of scripting going on. It is also obvious that real life interactions jump in and take place as well. We hear about the contenders "studying their lines", but we also hear how some things just spontaneously happen as well.

Now, on my part....
I study the edit and get clues from that. The way that I know that there is a lot of scripting is that throughout the history of the franchise I can document where people who are in the same positions (for example F2s) will often do or say extremely similar things such as Molly and Tenley both had "lists", and both told the Bachelor they were good kissers ( which is also an F2 type physical trait).

Last season we had KipF2 do the cooking bit and pigeons which is what Moana F2 did. We also had KipF2 kayack which is what Jason F2 did. We had them put F2 Kip in a (semi) competitive race situtation in the kayack similar to the competitive race situations of both Moana F2 (bicycle) and Bevin F2 (tricycle).
There are probably others, but these are popping up in my head right now.
The lines they say are numerous. They pop up throughout the season and confirm the position as well.

[anders332]

FDs that include dolphins has almost always been a F2 or F3- except for Ryan. Jason got sharks though.
F1 FD has typically been a secluded date - Jesse and Deanna got a private island, Ed, Melissa and Shayne got yacht/boat dates.
Zipliners/bungee jumpers have typically been F1s to.

But there have been exceptions to all the rules.

[Bloomers]

FDs that include dolphins has almost always been a F2 or F3- except for Ryan. Jason got sharks though.
F1 FD has typically been a secluded date - Jesse and Deanna got a private island, Ed, Melissa and Shayne got yacht/boat dates.
Zipliners/bungee jumpers have typically been F1s to.

But there have been exceptions to all the rules.

Great answer! Please include this on the Editing Thread as this one is worth the discussion.