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Thread: Has or will ABC address RS's allegations?

  1. #61
    FORT Regular Pete B's Avatar
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    Re: Has or will ABC address RS's allegations?

    Quote Originally Posted by jelle;3339844;
    You know what PeteB? You can say all day that Reality Steve's is incorrect or incomplete, but how do you explain that there were multiple confirmations of the same information that came from different sources? It wasn't only Reality Steve that was hearing things, many others were hearing similar reports. This is not just one man with one source.

    No one is going to say who told them what or where they got their information. No one is going to incriminate the people who talked about the show. It is great to get information here, but it would be terrible to get someone in trouble for saying it.

    Wouldn't it be wonderful if we are all wrong?
    But what would the ideal scenario be now? Should we expect to see Molly as the F1 at the FRC? Should we see Melissa engaged to Jason and happy at the AFTR? Should we see Melissa dump Jason at the AFTR? What would be the right ending now that there are so many out there?

    The only way this information passes muster as a deliberate leak is if the information is true, and the producers wanted to let it percolate for awhile to blunt the effect while driving up viewing for the FRC and the ATFR1




    Hey jelle, I wish I could say it all day but unfortunately I have an alternate revenue-generating life so I am only getting to this now!

    Seriously, let me comment on a few things you said:

    1. Different sources confirmed RS info - what I find strange is that none of these sources has added any significant details. In a true "leak" situation, once the initial info is out, the floodgates would open and you would be getting a wealth of juicy and poignant details (e.g. Melissa spat on Jason, Molly cried when she found she was # 2, Melissa's mother fainted, etc.). We have none of that which leads me to believe that this leak is very tightly controlled!

    2. Nobody reveals sources - again understandable that they wouldn't, but you can also look at it as a convenient way of stopping any checking up by us or anyone else! However let me make another point illustrating why I have a problem with RSs approach. Let's say you are RS and you got this info from a seemingly reliable source (Melissa's friend, cameraman from the shoot, etc). How would you check for its reliability? Think about it - there simply is no way to do it reliably. So they show you the ATFR with this scenario playing out - that would do it, right? Wrong, who is to say that several ATFR were not filmed and they are showing you just one of them. Because of this, I would have beleieved RS more if he gave a little bit of info than trying to reconstruct the whole story!

    3. Finally, I do not necessarily think that some of RS info is not correct (a switch after the FRC seems very likely). However there are so many scenarios (especially scenarios with a happy ending where no one is hurt) which could play out, and I feel RS was put up to intentionally spin a Harlequin tragic romance story to fire us up, and get mainstream media (just google news on The Bachelor) to report and drive ratings up!

    I said it before and I will repeat it again-I believe Fleiss and co. will have prepared a 100 % proof love story ending which will cause many here to say "how could I have been so wrong"!

  2. #62
    FORT Fogey jlccaz's Avatar
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    Re: Has or will ABC address RS's allegations?

    Quote Originally Posted by kultainen;3340320;
    Ypu could be rght...or maybe its like most attorneys, you tell someone to avoid being sued (the easiest way to avoid it) by couching facts that are negative as opinion. Opinions can't form a defamation suit; facts can. So, saying "Here's what I think" instead of "Here's what happened" is the oldest trick in the book when spoiling or outing or whistleblowing. I don't know RS, so I can't say.
    Steve has very cleverly deflected and misdirected any scrutiny away from his sources. He could have communicated the reportable facts in 3 sentences or less IMO. Certainly has used this "scoop" to generate attention for himself (I think he'd like to do more "news"-casting on radio or elsewhere).

    That said, he's done a nice job protecting sources, avoiding declarative statements where he could be (a) wrong, or (b) do "damage" in some legally cognizable fashion.

    And he's taking ALL the heat for the dozens of people who got the same information he did, from the same or even additional sources, at or about the same time he did. In short, he got the news out there, good on him. There weren't many brave enough to be the first.

  3. #63
    FORT Fogey BachfanNY's Avatar
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    Re: Has or will ABC address RS's allegations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete B;3338427;
    Not so moreChocolate. While the online community is tiny compared to the general viewing audience, the leaked info has slowly trickled into mainstream media and Fleiss & Co do care about them. Now everyone who has ever watched The Bachelor (and a few who never did) will be watching to see what happens and ratings will go up up up!

    It is strangely convenient that the info leaked so early (2 weeks before the AFTRs) ensuring that the online speculation builds up and reaches mainstream media! It is also interesting that RSs info was so unwavering on the injustice portion - i.e. Melissa hurt, this being a dastardly scheme from the start, etc!
    I can't say that ratings will go so far up...maybe some of us might be intrigued to see how it ends, but if it ends the way RS has explained it will, then poof goes next season. Why were ratings so low in the first place a year ago? Well, because viewers want to see a love story unfold, and when bad endings become a trend, we give up and move to the next best thing (no, not Rock of Love).

    Deanna & Jason were a blessing for ABC because viewers held them on pedestals as two people who aren't there just for fun, but for a real chance at falling in love.

    What the heck is he doing messing with the formula again?

    My husband asked me this morning if we were watching the bach tonight and for the first time I said, "uh...nah!" If their going to keep doing stuff like this, then I have no interest in watching.

  4. #64
    FORT Fan rockyone's Avatar
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    Re: Has or will ABC address RS's allegations?

    I will watch but I think it may be scripted but not as much as RS states,

  5. #65
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    Re: Has or will ABC address RS's allegations?

    I'm going to throw in my theory. First of all, I do think RS was given false info. I think the love story that has played out on TV is exactly what it seems to be, to me it's undeniable. They're promoting that we're all going to be surpised by the AFRC, it's jaw dropping, it's never been done before. Fleiss mentioned in an interview that a big secret comes out.

    Jason was crushed by Meme. He know what that F2 position feels like, he would never, ever want someone to feel that way. Jason was able to pick 10girls to be on the show. I think somehow he and Molly, without Fleiss's knowledge, decided that she would take the F2 slot. Remember the clue, F4 becomes F3 but not F2? Maybe there was no REAL F2, the REAL F2 was Jillian. He adored Jillian, but there was no passion there. With Mel, it's all there.

    Look at Molly's edit. She doesn't bond with the other girls, at all. Acts like she has it in the bag. That overnight tent date seemed a setup to get reaction from all the "girls." Did you see that bizarre smile that Molly gave Jason at the last RC ceremony, the "I've got a secret" smile? She and Jason both knew that he had just picked his F1, and she was happy for him, she knows how much in love he is with Mel.

    So the surprise ending is that Jason Fleiss'd Fleiss And the second AFRC will be the engagement party.

    What do you think? Is it plausible?

  6. #66
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    Re: Has or will ABC address RS's allegations?

    Quote Originally Posted by jlccaz;3342280;
    Steve has very cleverly deflected and misdirected any scrutiny away from his sources. He could have communicated the reportable facts in 3 sentences or less IMO. Certainly has used this "scoop" to generate attention for himself (I think he'd like to do more "news"-casting on radio or elsewhere).

    That said, he's done a nice job protecting sources, avoiding declarative statements where he could be (a) wrong, or (b) do "damage" in some legally cognizable fashion.

    And he's taking ALL the heat for the dozens of people who got the same information he did, from the same or even additional sources, at or about the same time he did. In short, he got the news out there, good on him. There weren't many brave enough to be the first.
    ......and it could be that this is the info that Flickoroonie wanted out there. He will keep it out there and play out the line until the last minute, when he then reels in the fish. Or fishies as it were.

  7. #67
    I Love Lilacs! aanjheni's Avatar
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    Re: Has or will ABC address RS's allegations?

    Quote Originally Posted by SugarMagnolia;3342355;
    I'm going to throw in my theory. First of all, I do think RS was given false info. I think the love story that has played out on TV is exactly what it seems to be, to me it's undeniable. They're promoting that we're all going to be surpised by the AFRC, it's jaw dropping, it's never been done before. Fleiss mentioned in an interview that a big secret comes out.
    Sorry, but on this show nothing is as it seems to be.

    from a blog by an PBS writer. Notice that nowhere does she refute that the show isn't scripted - it just varies in how they get the locations/dates/etc.

    Q: How does the production on a reality television program vary from scripted or more traditional forms?

    A: We shoot 100% of the time and air 1% of what we shot. With that said, we roll on a lot of boring sh*t but as soon as you set the camera down is when the good stuff happens, therefore we only stop when they are sleeping and even then there is somebody on standby just in case. Reality TV is known as being down and dirty and on the cheap, so it is very different from scripted [TV] in that one of my roles was to try to get everything for free -- if you see us at a resort in Bermuda it is because that said resort is looking for PR and they gave us the whole date for trade out.

    Q: Do you feel like the contestants on 'The Bachelor' (and the Bachelor himself) are actually there to find love? Or do they see it as a way of furthering their careers, entering show-biz, or getting their 15 minutes of fame?

    A: I am a bit of a hopeless romantic, so without sounding too cheesy I really believe that at our core most of us are looking for true love. Now, why would some go to match.com, a bar, or a reality TV show? The decision to go on TV is telling of their personalities and their motivations are almost never pure for these reality types. They usually want to leverage something. I don't know if it is always a career in acting more than it is fame, recognizability, covers of US Weekly, never having to wait in line at a club, for some it is about hometown celebrity status. Like take the realtor or the banker for example, after bearing all on a reality romance show they are inevitably viewed as an alpha type person and because of this their lives are exponentially better having made themselves a household name. Not to mention that over 50% of the cast, having not found love on TV end up finding it in their real lives immediately after going on the show -- somehow the people in their lives see them differently, more attractive even, having done something so ballsy.

    Q: Does the editing process do justice to the contestants or is there a vast difference between what happened during the taping and what appears on the broadcast? In other words, does the editing carve out a story line or play up certain personalities in order to make it more interesting? I think this is the general assumption that the audience has.

    A: TOTALLY! Everyone always ask if what we see on TV is really what happened and for the most part it is but, going back to the film 100% and air 1%, the viewer is only getting to see the really good stuff and, even still, if the stories are many we are going to edit them down to the most compelling bits, therefore leaving out (often times) how somebody goes from seemingly normal to totally coo coo pants. We have even gone so far as to "frankenbite," where you take somebody saying, "of course I'd like to say that I love him" and cutting the bite together to say "of course I love him," cutting out the very important "I'd like to say." [It's] definitely very misleading to the viewer and unfair to the cast member, but they sign up for this, fully knowing the reputation of the reality world.
    One thing I can give and still keep...is my word.

  8. #68
    FORT Fanatic GracieJardine's Avatar
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    Re: Has or will ABC address RS's allegations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete B;3341606;
    Hey jelle, I wish I could say it all day but unfortunately I have an alternate revenue-generating life so I am only getting to this now!

    Seriously, let me comment on a few things you said:

    1. Different sources confirmed RS info - what I find strange is that none of these sources has added any significant details. In a true "leak" situation, once the initial info is out, the floodgates would open and you would be getting a wealth of juicy and poignant details (e.g. Melissa spat on Jason, Molly cried when she found she was # 2, Melissa's mother fainted, etc.). We have none of that which leads me to believe that this leak is very tightly controlled!
    This isn't true at all. When information leaks from a controlled environment that is locked down with confidentiality agreements, often the most you get is a few tidbits from each source. They don't want to share any information that only *they* have because they dont want it traced back to them. They wouldn't share that Molly cried when she found out she was #2, etc. because then that would ID the source as being THERE when it happened. The sources don't just fear for the legal consequences, but for their professional reputation. Once a person in the industry gets a reputation for gossiping to the media / outside the industry, they are edged out of the game and no one wants to work with them because they can't be trusted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete B;3341606;
    2. Nobody reveals sources - again understandable that they wouldn't, but you can also look at it as a convenient way of stopping any checking up by us or anyone else! However let me make another point illustrating why I have a problem with RSs approach. Let's say you are RS and you got this info from a seemingly reliable source (Melissa's friend, cameraman from the shoot, etc). How would you check for its reliability? Think about it - there simply is no way to do it reliably. So they show you the ATFR with this scenario playing out - that would do it, right? Wrong, who is to say that several ATFR were not filmed and they are showing
    Also not true. If a person is 'in the know' enough to have a single source, then they probably have multiple sources. I used to work in LA in the movies/TV and I can tell you that it is very likely that if you know the cameraman, you probably also know a PA, a wardrobe assistant, etc. You could confirm information independently, for sure. People in the industry gossip amongst themselves all the time and keep the info an 'open secret' within the industry. But to leak it outside the industry or to the media isn't cool.

  9. #69
    Along for the ride PotstickersRgud's Avatar
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    Re: Has or will ABC address RS's allegations?

    Quote Originally Posted by jlccaz;3342280;
    Steve has very cleverly deflected and misdirected any scrutiny away from his sources. He could have communicated the reportable facts in 3 sentences or less IMO. Certainly has used this "scoop" to generate attention for himself (I think he'd like to do more "news"-casting on radio or elsewhere).

    That said, he's done a nice job protecting sources, avoiding declarative statements where he could be (a) wrong, or (b) do "damage" in some legally cognizable fashion.

    And he's taking ALL the heat for the dozens of people who got the same information he did, from the same or even additional sources, at or about the same time he did. In short, he got the news out there, good on him. There weren't many brave enough to be the first.


    Or stupid enough.

  10. #70
    Along for the ride PotstickersRgud's Avatar
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    Re: Has or will ABC address RS's allegations?

    Quote Originally Posted by SugarMagnolia;3342355;
    I'm going to throw in my theory. First of all, I do think RS was given false info. I think the love story that has played out on TV is exactly what it seems to be, to me it's undeniable. They're promoting that we're all going to be surpised by the AFRC, it's jaw dropping, it's never been done before. Fleiss mentioned in an interview that a big secret comes out.

    Jason was crushed by Meme. He know what that F2 position feels like, he would never, ever want someone to feel that way. Jason was able to pick 10girls to be on the show. I think somehow he and Molly, without Fleiss's knowledge, decided that she would take the F2 slot. Remember the clue, F4 becomes F3 but not F2? Maybe there was no REAL F2, the REAL F2 was Jillian. He adored Jillian, but there was no passion there. With Mel, it's all there.

    Look at Molly's edit. She doesn't bond with the other girls, at all. Acts like she has it in the bag. That overnight tent date seemed a setup to get reaction from all the "girls." Did you see that bizarre smile that Molly gave Jason at the last RC ceremony, the "I've got a secret" smile? She and Jason both knew that he had just picked his F1, and she was happy for him, she knows how much in love he is with Mel.

    So the surprise ending is that Jason Fleiss'd Fleiss And the second AFRC will be the engagement party.

    What do you think? Is it plausible?
    I agree with almost all of your post. An engagement party would be nice. I hadn't thought of that before. It could be an explanation for the closed set.
    It could also be that the ratings are good, and they decided to make it last.
    Last edited by PotstickersRgud; 02-23-2009 at 03:08 PM.

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