Reality Steve discussion only **Spoilers**

[glowgirl]

I think we are reading waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much into all these stupid RS clues. He has shown that he over exaggerates, goes off on a tangent, but then admits that it may not be that earth shattering.

Here are the parts of the puzzle, Jason does propose to Mel but not in NZ. At first TPTB were going to edit everything together all nice and tidy so that we never know that it didn't happen in NZ. But, in comes RS. He finds out the backstory of the proposal and how it was shot at a later date. He is going to blow their nice and tidy story, so they decide to go back and tell the story as it happened.

What would be shocking to the typical viewing audience? Nice guy J turns both girls away at FRC like Brad. Jaws drop. Not Jason!!! It ends with J telling Mel that he cannot propose to her, editing gets choppy and we see his breakdown on the balcony. With Brad we saw him being at peace with his decision to turn both away, but with Jason we see he is a mess.

Then the first ATFR beginning. We see J and Mel talking in the sunset and we see that J wants to move forward with her, but wants to meet her parents. We then see this meeting and everyone as one big happy family. We get to see the proposal, which is where the "FAKE" and "SCRIPTED" comes in because at that point Mel knows she is going to be proposed to, in fact the real proposal already happened they are just doing this one for the cameras. We will get to see the happy conclusion that we did not get with Brad. The 2nd ATFR will be the more traditional show--speaking with F2 and the happy celebration of the couple.

You sound like the voice of reason.

[JPG]

Just some food for thought...In the past, whenever I had a hunch, I'd come to these boards to check the screencaps for FRC. I've discovered this site only 3 yrs. ago, but, was there ever a time when on the "proof"of F1,2,3..., we were shown other people unrelated to the cast? That woman with the long dark hair (who it seems we purposely are not shown her face), walks up the path to Jays home in NZ, strikes me and makes me ask myself, why, why bother showing it. She's none of the remaining 3..... I sincerely hope, if there are 2 proposals, it's because of Mel's parents. I sure hope there both for the same girl. If Jay proposed to 2 different girls, I don't see him comming out of the show looking too good....the clue 2/3. As far as dates go in USA, it's Feb 3. In NZ, and other parts of Europe it means the 2nd day of March. If the show is over, and the FRC was 2008, we should be using USA term. As always, this board is great, that means all of you!! You got my brain cells moving!! Thanks!!

[Flori da]

I think we are reading waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much into all these stupid RS clues. He has shown that he over exaggerates, goes off on a tangent, but then admits that it may not be that earth shattering.

Here are the parts of the puzzle, Jason does propose to Mel but not in NZ. At first TPTB were going to edit everything together all nice and tidy so that we never know that it didn't happen in NZ. But, in comes RS. He finds out the backstory of the proposal and how it was shot at a later date. He is going to blow their nice and tidy story, so they decide to go back and tell the story as it happened.

What would be shocking to the typical viewing audience? Nice guy J turns both girls away at FRC like Brad. Jaws drop. Not Jason!!! It ends with J telling Mel that he cannot propose to her, editing gets choppy and we see his breakdown on the balcony. With Brad we saw him being at peace with his decision to turn both away, but with Jason we see he is a mess.

Then the first ATFR beginning. We see J and Mel talking in the sunset and we see that J wants to move forward with her, but wants to meet her parents. We then see this meeting and everyone as one big happy family. We get to see the proposal, which is where the "FAKE" and "SCRIPTED" comes in because at that point Mel knows she is going to be proposed to, in fact the real proposal already happened they are just doing this one for the cameras. We will get to see the happy conclusion that we did not get with Brad. The 2nd ATFR will be the more traditional show--speaking with F2 and the happy celebration of the couple.

Now, I think we're getting somewhere! Jason doesn't propose to either one at the FRC, just like Brad. Much better than thinking he proposes to both! The story continues after the show ends. As Fleiss said, "when you think it ends, it doesn't." He also imtimated that the couple seems happy, the crew was rooting for them. Jason got caught up in the show's atmosphere and couldn't see the forest for the trees, but all's well that ends well, and the relationship continued and developed after the FRC, just like Charlie's season.

[glowgirl]

Just some food for thought...In the past, whenever I had a hunch, I'd come to these boards to check the screencaps for FRC. I've discovered this site only 3 yrs. ago, but, was there ever a time when on the "proof"of F1,2,3..., we were shown other people unrelated to the cast? That woman with the long dark hair (who it seems we purposely are not shown her face), walks up the path to Jays home, strikes me and makes me ask myself, why, why bother showing it. She's none of the remaining 3..... I sincerely hope, if there are 2 proposals, it's because of Mel's parents. I sure hope there both for the same girl. If Jay proposed to 2 different girls, I don't see him comming out of the show looking too good....the clue 2/3. As far as dates go in USA, it's Feb 3. In NZ, and other parts of Europe it means the 2nd day of March. If the show is over, and the FRC was 2008, we should be using USA term. As always, this board is great, that means all of you!! You got my brain cells moving!! Thanks!!

What woman? What home? I think I missed something.

[aramcobrat]

I think we are reading waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much into all these stupid RS clues. He has shown that he over exaggerates, goes off on a tangent, but then admits that it may not be that earth shattering.

Here are the parts of the puzzle, Jason does propose to Mel but not in NZ. At first TPTB were going to edit everything together all nice and tidy so that we never know that it didn't happen in NZ. But, in comes RS. He finds out the backstory of the proposal and how it was shot at a later date. He is going to blow their nice and tidy story, so they decide to go back and tell the story as it happened.

What would be shocking to the typical viewing audience? Nice guy J turns both girls away at FRC like Brad. Jaws drop. Not Jason!!! It ends with J telling Mel that he cannot propose to her, editing gets choppy and we see his breakdown on the balcony. With Brad we saw him being at peace with his decision to turn both away, but with Jason we see he is a mess.

Then the first ATFR beginning. We see J and Mel talking in the sunset and we see that J wants to move forward with her, but wants to meet her parents. We then see this meeting and everyone as one big happy family. We get to see the proposal, which is where the "FAKE" and "SCRIPTED" comes in because at that point Mel knows she is going to be proposed to, in fact the real proposal already happened they are just doing this one for the cameras. We will get to see the happy conclusion that we did not get with Brad. The 2nd ATFR will be the more traditional show--speaking with F2 and the happy celebration of the couple.

I think this is the most plausible theory I've read so far!

[annabanana2]

I have a real strong hunch that there isn't going to be a proposal at the usual time and it was scripted that way to cause the big shocker. If RS hadn't gotten involved we wouldn't be any the wiser and he certainly made this more exciting. I was bored enough to quit watching until the finale but he sure got me looking for the real story. The Bachelor franchise needed a boost badly and they seem to be pleased with their new editor-in-charge and the way he manipulated this season (read: shock value) and how he was able to increase viewership. When Jason pulls a Brad every person who follows this reality show will be glued to their tv sets, for sure!! And we definitely wouldn't miss the 2nd ATFR. I don't think we've been duped or played, we tune in hoping to be shocked or at least hope to be given just enough to keep us interested. Doesn't matter who his final choice is, everyone will just be so relieved that our hero (LOL) didn't let us down.

[melanieian]

Here is what another poster said and it makes perfect sense.



Jason ended up with Melissa and she is his fiance now.

Originally on the show she left before F4. Hence no home visit with her family was taped. He really visited Stephanie’s family.

At the FRC Jason proposed to neither of the F2 because he wanted Melissa back. He broke the rules of the show just like Bret Hart did to the WWF in Montreal.

The final 2 became 3 when Mellissa was brought back.

TPTB needed to keep the show flowing accordoing to their formula so they had to go back and edit Melissa into the show later.

It’s no big deal, but RS has turned it into the scandal of the century.

End of story!

This makes sense to me.

[bamabrain]

Given that he's talking about showing the "happy couple" at the AATFR and about maybe doing a wedding with them, do you think the timeline issue could be that something changed early after the first of the year (hence the article you reference) and then that something changed again after that? And somehow the combination is playing into things?

None of this craziness came up until 1/27 when RS posted - where/why did he suddenly get his info? Why hadn't he had it all along? Or if he did, why did he randomly choose that day to "spill" it? Couldn't it be that something provoked it - and that something causes this switch sometime mid-January from the past tense sounding comments to the hopeful comments - all just from Fleiss and Co.?

I think that that is a very plausible explanation. That's why I wanted to look at that early Fleiss article again. RS says that we already know the WHO--but I suspect that the Fleiss phrase "Happy Couple" is a blanket term to cover whomever at whatever time. A kind of you-fill-in-the-blank generic term. Third time's the charm. Maybe. One would hope. So maybe we'll see an ATFR 3: The After After After. Pure speculation on my part. As I've said repeatedly, I've not consulted the Oracle. Some posters with--according to them--rock-solid insider information are certain that Jason has been with Melissa from the beginning and that they are rock-solid. Going on Fleiss's show's track record alone, though, and what he's said most recently about the finale, and what RS has already spilled, I find it very doubtful that Happy Couple = Melissa + Jason FOREVER.

P.S. Happy V-Day, y'all. Don't you just love a good Romance--I mean Mystery--Story? This one, I suspect, has still not achieved resolution.

[Cerese]

Now, I think we're getting somewhere! Jason doesn't propose to either one at the FRC, just like Brad. Much better than thinking he proposes to both! The story continues after the show ends. As Fleiss said, "when you think it ends, it doesn't." He also imtimated that the couple seems happy, the crew was rooting for them. Jason got caught up in the show's atmosphere and couldn't see the forest for the trees, but all's well that ends well, and the relationship continued and developed after the FRC, just like Charlie's season.

I think this is the most acceptable - plausible etc - but is it something that RS could not wrap his head around - is this because there is so much chemistry shown between Melissa and Jason that when Jason doesn't propose to her at first - it is so shocking?

I agree with others - Jason does not seem to be able to cover up his feelings - and we see this at times with the other girls - so it would appear that at least his feelings towards Melissa seem to be real. I could believe that Melissa was acting - her answers are a little too perfect. But could she have changed and fallen for him - the HTD greeting seems pretty genuine. Or is the HTD the beginning of the end - she was scripted all along and now she has to get out of this whole mess by presenting Jason with obstacles. Jason has seeemd crazy about Melissa but now he is beginning to have doubts. So he could either show guts and pursue and we have a nice love story if she has also fallen for him - shown from the beginning even if partly scripted which is what we wanted.


Or he had "agreed" that Melissa was to be the one (remember no initial m&g interraction) and he faithfully follows through (darn good acting) but is actually falling for Molly (or Jillian ... - but if she goes this week I think he'd be a rat/wimp to go first reject her and then go back after her - true love or not). He spends the night with Molly, he takes her around Seattle, the hot tub after the date - and they don't show us this - is this because the interraction is not hot romance worthy - would bore us all - just 2 ordinary people falling in love - whereas most are drawn to Melissa - she catches our attention with her over the top expressions, warmth etc. Melissa makes for a better show ...

The way they have presented the story to me - if Jason ends up with anyone else but Melissa - he doesn't look very good in my eyes. If Jason did not feel any of the girls was a match (NO ONE) then I can accept that. If he was falling for Molly, he was doing way too much kissing with Melissa. If he agreed to carry on with a script knowing he might fall in love with someone else - ie obey Fleiss - then he is a wimp ! I wasn't that upset with Brad - if you know - then why continue the dating after the show - and even though the bachelor is presented with 25 - it is possible that no one grabs him. Now abc knows we don't want that kind of ending - and especially hard if it is all scripted because then we have been fooled. But what is abc supposed to do - isn't scripting and maybe a fake ending the only way to go - that is essentially what they did with Deanna's show. Graham was the intended - only he didn't feel the same way Deanna did.

So if with all good intentions the producers try to have a love story and it doesn't pan out - what do we want ?? I will be disappointed if Melissa and Jason don't have the "connection" we thought they had but the sparks were fun to watch - and the sleuthing is exasperating/frustrating/exhausting but a lot of fun.

[bamabrain]

The question is which scenario will the viewers see:

1. proposal to Melissa
2. propoasl to option #2
3. or both

If we see both then that is why we have ATFR part 2 and Jason doesn't come out of this smelling like a rose

Melissa is under contract to Fleiss so if Fleiss says jumps she will ask how high.

That, my dear, is precisely why I'm looking forward to the After Afters. I really do see this season as a po-mo (post-modern) Love Story of the Moment. It'll be interesting to see how Fleiss plays it. I think a lot will have to do with when/what RS spills. Regardless, I can't conceive of the After Afters being Happily Ever Afters.