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Thread: Molly **Spoilers**

  1. #1021
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: Molly **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by blasie;3338025;
    Did DeAnna and Jesse have a fake engagement?

    Did Matt and Shayne have a fake engagement?

    Did Andy and Tessa have a fake engagement?




    I think you can safely answer yes to all of the above.
    Andrew Firestone and Jen Sheft were engaged in the eyes of his parents who were tentatively looking towards a Spring wedding around their home before the couple broke up. They were together working in the family business for 10 months. Would you say that because they didn't end up married, they had a "fake" engagement?

    Ian was very reluctant to propose; that was the whole conflict. Indeed, they had that sinister brother of his try his best to talk him out of it, yet Ian did anyway. He and Meredith were together for a year before he decided he couldn't take that one final step.
    Would you say that because they did not marry in the end, they had a "fake" engagement?

    When is an engagement a fake? When it doesn't end in marriage?
    When only one one person thinks he/she is engaged?

    When not to be excuses the other person seeing someone else on the sly?

    When is it justifying, rationalizing, or semantics?
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  2. #1022
    FORT Fogey just logic's Avatar
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    Re: Molly **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by jelle;3338180;
    But the point is relevant none the less, that any of the girls relocating to Seattle would have the same difficulty. It is not unique to Molly or Melissa. I pointed out at one time that Jillian or Naomi perhaps whould have the easiest time relocating job wish, but was told that Melissa would have no problem at all Whatever
    For that matter Jillian may not have even had to re-locate. Heard she's now working out of Bellingham, Wash. (could be just a rumor). Even living south of Vancouver - it's an easy weekend commute. Rather an easy commute for a weekend visit - lots of people in Vancouver drive down for shopping

  3. #1023
    FORT Fogey Beachmom's Avatar
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    Re: Molly **Spoilers**

    Commenting on the move to Seattle for Molly - or any of the other girls. One thing I think we're all sure of is Jason has to stay in the Seattle area for Ty and his ex-wife, at least for now. He probably wants to stay there anyway, as at least on TV, he seems to have a very supportive family. The woman he becomes involved with will have to live in/relocate to Seattle.

    I think any of these women would do it. If you love someone, you want to be near him. It comes down to choosing a location for both of you. Jason's circumstances are a little different. My story is extremely similar to Tessa's. I gave up my great teaching job and moved to the other side of the world -- and that was over 20 years ago! I never doubted my decision, and I never looked back. I was focused on the man I loved.

  4. #1024
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    Re: Molly **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloomers;3338187;
    Andrew Firestone and Jen Sheft were engaged in the eyes of his parents who were tentatively looking towards a Spring wedding around their home before the couple broke up. They were together working in the family business for 10 months. Would you say that because they didn't end up married, they had a "fake" engagement?

    Ian was very reluctant to propose; that was the whole conflict. Indeed, they had that sinister brother of his try his best to talk him out of it, yet Ian did anyway. He and Meredith were together for a year before he decided he couldn't take that one final step.
    Would you say that because they did not marry in the end, they had a "fake" engagement?

    When is an engagement a fake? When it doesn't end in marriage?
    When only one one person thinks he/she is engaged?

    When not to be excuses the other person seeing someone else on the sly?

    When is it justifying, rationalizing, or semantics?
    These are all great questions. I feel like an engagement would certainly be fake if both people involved agreed that the engagement was just for show. The closest example I can think of is Matt & Shayne, if the rumors about them are true.

    However, past that definition of a "fake" engagement, I think it gets incredibly shady and don't know how I would classify any of the engagements you mentioned above as "fake". If both people plan to marry, I consider that a "real" engagement, of course, but if one does while the other doesn't (or is cheating, for example), does that make it "fake"? I'd be really interested in hearing from other people why they think the engagements listed earlier were "fake" engagements.

  5. #1025
    FORT Fanatic blasie's Avatar
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    Re: Molly **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloomers;3338187;
    Andrew Firestone and Jen Sheft were engaged in the eyes of his parents who were tentatively looking towards a Spring wedding around their home before the couple broke up. They were together working in the family business for 10 months. Would you say that because they didn't end up married, they had a "fake" engagement?

    Ian was very reluctant to propose; that was the whole conflict. Indeed, they had that sinister brother of his try his best to talk him out of it, yet Ian did anyway. He and Meredith were together for a year before he decided he couldn't take that one final step.
    Would you say that because they did not marry in the end, they had a "fake" engagement?

    When is an engagement a fake? When it doesn't end in marriage?
    When only one one person thinks he/she is engaged?

    When not to be excuses the other person seeing someone else on the sly?

    When is it justifying, rationalizing, or semantics?
    Andy Baldwin's season was my first.

    An engagement is fake when:
    1. ....either one of the parties has been dating numerous other people up until 12 hours before the proposal.

    2......you are bound by contractual obligations to maintain the relationship for a minimum number of days or risk a heavy fine.

    3. .....the proposal occurs during the finale of a televised reality show.


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  6. #1026
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    Re: Molly **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by ironcat;3338075;
    As much as I find it reprehensible of Jason if the rumors are all true, I don't really see Ty as being irreparably damaged by this. At 4, he probably barely understands it, and I doubt as yet he has formed a strong attachment to either Melissa or Molly (and he would probably say, "Deanna who?" if asked).
    Now in a few years when he is older, if people are coming up to Jason on the street and cursing at him, there'll be some 'splaining to do.
    Ty is just 4, I doubt he understands what's going on in his Dad's life. Also, I don't believe he has formed attachment with Molly or Melissa. I think, this is really about 'much ado about nothing'. In real life, people fall in and out of love and do things that appear incomprehensible and reprehensible. I'd rather that Jason changes his mind now and does the right thing _ meaning correct what he thinks and feel is wrong _ than continue with the charade or sham. So why delay the inevitable knowing that it is likely to end? Is it more important and rational to save your face than to take your chance at happiness - the very premise of this pathetic 'bachelor' journey?

    I don't believe that the outcome was engineered by Fleiss. We seem to forget that we are dealing with human beings here. Some view Jason as a bit of a 'pushover'. I completely disagree; his handling of so many bizarre situations with the women has, so far, been remarkably stellar and astute. I know that a lot of viewers are disappointed that he let Jillian go but, based on what was shown, I don't think they are right for each other. I think, Jason is more drawn to the likes of Melissa and Molly who are, in personality and background, worlds apart. I see him liking Melissa's vulnerability and affectionate nature but, I think, Molly's fun, somewhat 'quirky' personality is very appealing to him. He has met Molly's family but hasn't seen Melissa's and I think that should really matter particularly in their case having met in a Reality TV show. As Stephanie advised him, the 'family' matters a lot ... as like it or not, you marry not just the person but his or her family as well. As regards the girls' personalities, i find Melissa to be a bit manipulative ... yes, she seems to get along with every one but I wonder what's beneath that facade. Apparently, she has always been the 'dumpee' in her relationship and this to me is a real 'red flag'. Why? Jason should attempt to understand the dynamics of it. Even her socalled best friends admitted they have YET to meet her family, hmmmm? Another 'red flag'. And Molly, she struggled to have her boyfriend accepted by her family ... while that is significant, I would not necessarily opine that it is a 'red flag'. Sometimes, we fall for the wrong people and our family who are concerned for us would naturally step in to prevent a disaster. Maybe, one can say they are probably 'snobby' ... but are they really?

    By the way, some hate the fact that he seems to have kissed a lot of girls in the show. First of all, I hate to say, but the girls in this season are outrageously bold and forward. 'Decorum' seems to have become outdated: Jillian boldly making out with Jason in the tub caused his Dad, according to her own admission, to watch the episode open-mouthed. Hmmmm ... it's so sad how we have, morally, regressed. I suppose, Pelosi is right to include funding for contraceptives in the Stimulus plan (it's reportedly gone).

    As regards RS, I should withhold judgment until i see the outcome. Of course, parts of the outcome will bear semblance to his views but I doubt that these should automatically validate veracity of his account. I haven't really liked Jason but I doubt he is that despicable and insensitive. As they say, the leopard does not change its spots .... He is not also a good actor so I'd say that if indeed there is a change, it is simply a by-product of his being a human being wont to make mistakes ... misjudgments like most of us.

  7. #1027
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    Re: Molly **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by cherryyou;3338249;
    Ty is just 4, I doubt he understands what's going on in his Dad's life. Also, I don't believe he has formed attachment with Molly or Melissa. I think, this is really about 'much ado about nothing'. In real life, people fall in and out of love and do things that appear incomprehensible and reprehensible. I'd rather that Jason changes his mind now and does the right thing _ meaning correct what he thinks and feel is wrong _ than continue with the charade or sham. So why delay the inevitable knowing that it is likely to end? Is it more important and rational to save your face than to take your chance at happiness - the very premise of this pathetic 'bachelor' journey?

    I don't believe that the outcome was engineered by Fleiss. We seem to forget that we are dealing with human beings here. Some view Jason as a bit of a 'pushover'. I completely disagree; his handling of so many bizarre situations with the women has, so far, been remarkably stellar and astute. I know that a lot of viewers are disappointed that he let Jillian go but, based on what was shown, I don't think they are right for each other. I think, Jason is more drawn to the likes of Melissa and Molly who are, in personality and background, worlds apart. I see him liking Melissa's vulnerability and affectionate nature but, I think, Molly's fun, somewhat 'quirky' personality is very appealing to him. He has met Molly's family but hasn't seen Melissa's and I think that should really matter particularly in their case having met in a Reality TV show. As Stephanie advised him, the 'family' matters a lot ... as like it or not, you marry not just the person but his or her family as well. As regards the girls' personalities, i find Melissa to be a bit manipulative ... yes, she seems to get along with every one but I wonder what's beneath that facade. Apparently, she has always been the 'dumpee' in her relationship and this to me is a real 'red flag'. Why? Jason should attempt to understand the dynamics of it. Even her socalled best friends admitted they have YET to meet her family, hmmmm? Another 'red flag'. And Molly, she struggled to have her boyfriend accepted by her family ... while that is significant, I would not necessarily opine that it is a 'red flag'. Sometimes, we fall for the wrong people and our family who are concerned for us would naturally step in to prevent a disaster. Maybe, one can say they are probably 'snobby' ... but are they really?

    By the way, some hate the fact that he seems to have kissed a lot of girls in the show. First of all, I hate to say, but the girls in this season are outrageously bold and forward. 'Decorum' seems to have become outdated: Jillian boldly making out with Jason in the tub caused his Dad, according to her own admission, to watch the episode open-mouthed. Hmmmm ... it's so sad how we have, morally, regressed. I suppose, Pelosi is right to include funding for contraceptives in the Stimulus plan (it's reportedly gone).

    As regards RS, I should withhold judgment until i see the outcome. Of course, parts of the outcome will bear semblance to his views but I doubt that these should automatically validate veracity of his account. I haven't really liked Jason but I doubt he is that despicable and insensitive. As they say, the leopard does not change its spots .... He is not also a good actor so I'd say that if indeed there is a change, it is simply a by-product of his being a human being wont to make mistakes ... misjudgments like most of us.
    I don't know if engineered by Fleiss, but surely taken advantage of if not.
    I truly don't get the Mel bashing. You can like Molly, think she is a better choice, but still not justify it by bashing another woman.
    We can certainly agree it's much better to end an engagement than go through with a bad marriage.
    It probably won't affect Ty now, but I'd hate to be Jason when he's older and can watch You Tube or DVDs on his own.
    Finally can we agree that the one point at which there can be culpability here , real bad behavior, is if in fact Jason dumps Mel on TV and not in private? I don't like the seeing Molly secretly if it happened, but again not uncommon. But, the public humiliation is where I draw the line, if it happens.

  8. #1028
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    Re: Molly **Spoilers**

    Finally can we agree that the one point at which there can be culpability here , real bad behavior, is if in fact Jason dumps Mel on TV and not in private? I don't like the seeing Molly secretly if it happened, but again not uncommon. But, the public humiliation is where I draw the line, if it happens
    Oh I draw the line at seeing Molly secretly... If it was on more than one occassion. End your relationships don't cheat. It's a gray area because what constitutes cheating???? I have known people who've left people for others. A lot of times it's leaving someone for a friend. And it's kind of clear the friendships were for awhile gray area.. But there was no sneaking around, and the other people knew about it the friendship
    Personally I don't know if these people understood how close because well we are talking about long distance relationships.

    I have learned though from this that I want a boyfriend who has appropriate boundries with the opposite sex. I mean friendship is fine, but being all "over your friend"....

    I also know a story about a guy who had a fiance but he was kind of dragging his feet about marrying her. She was a great girl the fiance. One day he got a call from his ex, there had been a bad break up between them years later. She basically said look I've dated lots of guys, and none of it's worked for me. What's it like for you. So he flew down to talk to her. I suspect they felt if anything closure was needed.. Story goes he broke up with fiance and married the ex.

    Now yes the signficant others were hurt in all those cases and that sucks? But well those kinds of situations happen and it's life and you learn from it.

    What's not cool though is sneaking around someone's back, and spending weekends with Molly, is sneaking behind someone's back and it's not right. Although people make mistakes...

    However of course the public humilation is the worst part of it. So for me I really have no issue with Jason leaving Melissa for Molly... That happens and he's not a bad person for doing so at all. BUT, I have a lot of strong issues with the way he went about doing this.

  9. #1029
    FORT Fanatic Frak's Avatar
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    Re: Molly **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Bet2Win;3338092;
    Based on the previews, Ty was not interested in meeting Molly.
    OMG, that part cracked me up! Molly even laughed.

  10. #1030
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    Re: Molly **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloomers;3338058;
    It appears to me that they don't know what they want!

    1.Matt wanted someone to marry fairly quickly in order to produce grandchildren for his ailing father to enjoy ( before he died), so he picked Shayne who flat out told him that she not only didn't see herself ready to get married yet but didn't see him ready to get married either.

    2. DeAnna repeatedly said she was looking for a husband and 3 kids by the time she was 30. She changed her mind for the good times and a chance in the business.

    3. Jason said he wanted someone to rely on him; now he has changed it to he wants someone to challenge him - 2 very opposite things.

    If they don't even know what they want, how are we supposed to know?
    Bloomer as usual, you hit the nail on the head.

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