Thoughts & Comments in General #3 **SPOILERS** - Bachelor 12

[mommyof2poodles]

Originally Posted by northernviewer

I'm going to repeat what's been said a 100 times but here goes ...

It's not so much that she posed nude, it's the magazine and that she's friends with the slease-ball owner of the mag.

Maybe such a big deal wouldn't have been been made if Amanda hadn't been critisized and called classless cause she called Matt a DB and then Chelsea for the panty episode. I think some of us are just pointing out the obvious, Shayne tops them all, including Kelly, who showed everyone her boobs

And I will quote you to make it 101 times. YOU ARE RIGHT ON! If calling Matt a douchebag and being pantyless are "crimes", "classless", etc, then this has to top it all. It is the magazine I have a problem with, not the nudity.

If they have to catch so much flak over the things they did or said then it is only fair that Shayne have to do the same. Fair is fair.

[Google]

 

[casualfan]

Originally Posted by Bloomers

Marilyn Monroe is not remembered for her acting skills. She is remembered as a sex goddess who was in a few movies. When you read the ciritiques of her performances, they usually label them fair. Sometimes she was panned.
Not many people thought she was less than stunning, and she used her body to shear up what is now generally well cited as a very poor self-esteem. She was a gorgeous woman, but she really wasn't much of a movie star, and she certainly wasn't a classic or well respected one at that.

Your great actresses like Kathyrn Hepburn and Meryl Street, and even younger ones like Julia Roberts do not pose nude, nor do they appear in porn movies.

Marilyn Monroe may or may not have been a good actress, I don't know. I wasn't aroung then, I haven't studied her career and I'm not an old movie buff. What I do know is that she is remembered as one of, if not the most iconic movie actresses of all time. Many would think that being compared to her is quite a compliment indeed!

For what it's worth, many A list young actresses have just recently posed semi nude for magazines, including Eva Mendes, and Megan Fox. These are two of the hottest younger generation actresses around.

Originally Posted by northernviewer

I'm going to repeat what's been said a 100 times but here goes ...

It's not so much that she posed nude, it's the magazine and that she's friends with the slease-ball owner of the mag.

Maybe such a big deal wouldn't have been been made if Amanda hadn't been critisized and called classless cause she called Matt a DB and then Chelsea for the panty episode. I think some of us are just pointing out the obvious, Shayne tops them all, including Kelly, who showed everyone her boobs

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but over the course of the season Amanda had by far, by FAR the most clean portrayal of any of the woman, besides maybe Noelle. She came under very little criticism for using the DB word. Meanwhile both Shayne and Chelsea faced criticism throughout the series. Before the first show aired many were already criticizing Shayne because of her previous acting jobs, and Chelsea for body shots and lap dances during the season preview. There is no way that Amanda was scrutinized to the same level as either of these women. For Chelsea, she was IMO unfairly criticized for actions that we never saw on the show, only in the previews and then for the fantasy date underwear stuff. Shayne has also been IMO unfairly criticized for her post show actions, as well as pretty much everything she did during the season, every interview she has given during the season, and now for the GGW piece.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the pictures, but I do think any association with that franchise is not positive. Some have posted that she realized she made a mistake, an error in judgement. We all make them, probably a lot of young actresses make them, and probably many to a greater extent then Shayne's. The only difference is that most of them are not known and most of us live our lives so that only our friends and family know when we make a mistake. I really feel for her and Matt actually. During this exciting week they are facing a fair amount of adversity. It would take a strong couple to make it through any of this. If they do fantastic! If they do not, that's too bad, but that just means they have other happiness waiting for them down the road.

[aanjheni]

Originally Posted by casualfan

Marilyn Monroe may or may not have been a good actress, I don't know. I wasn't aroung then, I haven't studied her career and I'm not an old movie buff. What I do know is that she is remembered as one of, if not the most iconic movie actresses of all time. Many would think that being compared to her is quite a compliment indeed!

For what it's worth, many A list young actresses have just recently posed semi nude for magazines, including Eva Mendes, and Megan Fox. These are two of the hottest younger generation actresses around.



I hate to be the bearer of bad news but over the course of the season Amanda had by far, by FAR the most clean portrayal of any of the woman, besides maybe Noelle. She came under very little criticism for using the DB word. Meanwhile both Shayne and Chelsea faced criticism throughout the series. Before the first show aired many were already criticizing Shayne because of her previous acting jobs, and Chelsea for body shots and lap dances during the season preview. There is no way that Amanda was scrutinized to the same level as either of these women. For Chelsea, she was IMO unfairly criticized for actions that we never saw on the show, only in the previews and then for the fantasy date underwear stuff. Shayne has also been IMO unfairly criticized for her post show actions, as well as pretty much everything she did during the season, every interview she has given during the season, and now for the GGW piece.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the pictures, but I do think any association with that franchise is not positive. Some have posted that she realized she made a mistake, an error in judgement. We all make them, probably a lot of young actresses make them, and probably many to a greater extent then Shayne's. The only difference is that most of them are not known and most of us live our lives so that only our friends and family know when we make a mistake. I really feel for her and Matt actually. During this exciting week they are facing a fair amount of adversity. It would take a strong couple to make it through any of this. If they do fantastic! If they do not, that's too bad, but that just means they have other happiness waiting for them down the road.

What an excellent post casualfan

First, I would like to go on the record as a person who has never posted a derogatory comment about any of the girls. Having stated that:

I may be a Nana, but I am no prude. If Shayne wants to pose for pics in GGW, that is her perogative and I am not one to judge. I personally wouldn't have done it and I would kill my daughter if she had posed for that sleazebag, but then again, I know how head-strong my daughter is. If I said "NO" you can darn well bet she would do it then. Shayne will have to live with the ramifications of her actions - as we all do when we make poor choices.

One thing I don't think that has been discussed is the possibility that she was manipulated by a convicted felon into doing this? He very well may have befriended her and layed on the charm - so much so that her judgment was impaired. It happens every day to very ordinary women. Why would a young woman like Shayne be any different?

I would like to point out that she was not fully nude in any of the photos - even the wedding one. (It appears she had on a thong) And the Inside Edition video was edited to make it much more salacious than it really was. For example, they had the ribbon over her tushie to make it appear as if she was really bottomless on the patio shot. Instead, she had on the same black boyshort panties on that she had on the other photos. If you look very closely, there is a moment where the ribbon drops a bit and you can see the top of the black undies. It would appear that IE is doing all that it can to sensationalize the story.

My take on the panty dropping by Chelsea. See paragraph 1 and just insert Chelsea's name where Shayne's is.

[mickaylal]

Originally Posted by grneyedgirl

The sneak peak video appeared, IMO, to have a bit of nude posing taking place. If she were wearing a bikini, why would they have covered the areas with that red ribbon thing?

Nope, her butt was not showing, she was wearing bottoms, but her butt cheeks were hanging out. In the taping of the shoot, I am sure there were times when her breasts were exposed, but none of the pictures showed an exposed breast, butt or genital. I wouldnt have posed, and it was not the best idea, but still it doesnt compare to what Chelsea did.

Chelsea was involved with an intimate act with a man for whom she was competing with 2 other women to win over. That to me is nasty and desperate. What were her motives?

Atleast Shaynes motives were like most of the working world. To make money. And honestly, depending on the money they paid her, I really doubt alot of us would not have posed like Shayne did. The main problem I have with it is because its GGW. If it was on Vanity Fair or even Playboy, it would not seem as shocking as it is. But it does not effect how I think of Shayne. I think she is smart, savy, genuine, warm, caring.....and soooooo much more real and classy than Chelsea.

[mickaylal]

Originally Posted by northernviewer

Well, by the sounds of her interview, (and Amanda's) Matt led them to believe that they were going to be the final one, by his actions but more importantly, by his words. Matt is the biggest slease in that regard and Chelsea was misled with what she told was going to be aired. Shayne, on the other hand purposely chose to "drop her drawers" for the world to see (well not really the world, just a bunch of horny teenaged boys and a some dirty old men), Chelsea on the other hand was a victim of editing.

Well who says I believe a word that comes out of that bitter tramps mouth? I dont. I think she is nothing but humiliated that Matt did not choose her. She is so arrogant that she never thought for one minute that there might be some real substance to Shayne. She was not broken hearted, she had a broken ego. It was a competition for her. She wanted to beat her "component" because she thought Shayne was the "falsest" person there. I think she is dumb, she can barely carry on a conversation. She was very out of place with Matt's parents, basically only tried to justify her standoffish behavior. Oh and Shayne did not drop her drawers. She had them on, just showed her butt cheeks. Chelsea is a victim of her own manipulating trampy behavior.

[mickaylal]

Originally Posted by dodie430

There is no evidence whatsoever to support whether Chelsea and Matt had sex (or not).




See above re: evidence of sex.
And below re: promiscuity.



I don't believe so either. But it's interesting that you consider Chelsea promiscuous and stated so above.




Are you are seeking evidence that Chelsea put on a second pair of panties, but don't require it for proof of sex between them? Just trying to understand the point more clearly.




A lover, as defined in the sense that Matt spoke it, generally does mean that you have intimate knowledge of the person of whom you are speaking. The word encompasses more meaning than just "sex" but is rarely used without sex being a component of it's meaning. It's almost a kind of status you bestow upon someone once you've become physically intimate and found them compatible and fulfilling to your physical and emotional needs.

That being said, one would then have to define what that person views as sex or intimacy. And we know there is a wide and varying range of what can be considered "sex". Bill Clinton anyone?

So while, not evidence that Matt and Shayne had actual intercourse, and not evidence that they didn't, I would bet money on some form of sexual intimacy between them based on his use of the word.

To me that's far more compelling evidence than Chelsea's changing scene, which could have been edited to leave a question in the viewer's mind. No one edited Matt saying Shayne was his "lover".

But the inference is open to interpretation and perception.



There were cameramen filming Chelsea's scene as well. It doesn't exactly lend itself to intimacy. Secondly, if Chelsea did indeed have sex with Matt, that's entirely her choice, and don't forget - his as well. You can lead a horse to water... but you can't make him drink. And if Matt and Shayne had sex as well, that's also their business. I'm not sure why anyone here who supports Shayne and undoubtedly believes that Chelsea had sex with Matt just a couple of days before proposing to the love of his life, would even want him to be with Shayne.

Secondly, we saw nothing as nearly risqué with Chelsea as Shayne's GGW "spread". Shayne is completely naked and the images in the video were too racy to be shown on television and had to be censored. I didn't see any censorship with Chelsea's scene (however there was censorship with Shayne's tanning scene). So when you said "Shayne did not show as much as a skimpy bikini" - I would have to agree with you on that, because she didn't have a "skimpy bikini" on to "show". She had nothing on but her birthday suit.

Anyway, I couldn't care less if they all had sex. It's really none of my business, they are all adults. But comparing Chelsea's FD scene with Shayne's exposé in GGW is like comparing apples to oranges imo. To posit that it is worse than what Shayne did, and call Chelsea a tramp, well...it's difficult for me to understand your position.

But you are completely entitled to it, I'm just trying really hard to understand it.



I don't think anyone here has called Shayne promiscuous. At least that I can recall. I wouldn't even think of drawing an unsupported conclusion like that from those photos, or the venue she chose. She has made a huge mistake in choosing GGW for her "coming out" party imo. To affiliate herself with people of that calibre could conceivably destroy her credibility, if not necessarily her career.

The photos themselves aren't at issue for me. If Matt wants to marry a woman who takes her clothes off for the world to see, that's entirely his choice, just like it's his choice who he does or doesn't sleep with. But to do it for a man like Joe Francis is, in my opinion, negligent at best.

She says she's made a mistake. Fine. My only question on that matter is that if she's as mature and well-grounded as everyone claims she is, what was she thinking?! She doesn't live under a rock, and in fact probably knows more about the GGW franchise and Joe Francis, than does the average person. She is/was purportedly friends with his girlfriend and swims in - if not the same stream - a similar one. I personally believe that she felt it would benefit her in some form or fashion, and now that it hasn't - she's simply sorry that it hasn't. I highly doubt that she would have apologized had there been a positive response to the GGW spread. There hasn't been some sort of epiphany here, imo. And therefore the apology has little or no value or meaning and is merely self-serving.

But that's just the way I view it. Had there been an overwhelming chorus of "Wow! Look at her! She's going to be the next big thing!" - there would have been no apology. She has certainly garnered some coverage, and gained some infamy in the process. People know who she is now, she was pretty much non-existent in the collective consciousness prior to TB.

But infamy and fame are two very different things, and unless she has aspirations to a Paris Hilton-like status, this can do nothing but harm her credibility and shorten the roster of possibility when it comes to being offered worthy acting parts. And you know, maybe that is what she is after - who knows - but all the stuff she talked about with regards to her career and her "craft" then just seem like a complete line of B.S.

Meh... whatever.....just my 2 cents... again

Wow you put alot of work into that.

I guess we just dont see it the same. I saw a girl who acted like she did not want to even touch Matt turn into a girl who took off her panties and put on lingerie to show him she could be romantic. To me it looked like someone who wanted to win something. And it was not Matts love, she wanted to win the competition. If I had thought she was really in it for Matt, I would not think of her the way I do. Now Shayne on the otherhand seems very genuinely in love with Matt. She was open, she talked to him, shared things with him.....actually showed him who she was.....Chelsea never did that. Not once. Everything Chelsea said to Matt, was said with a stammer, and akward hand movements, and she could not look him in the eye. It was so fake to me. I would have rather seen Amanda or Noelle or Holly or even Robin with him before Chelsea. That is how fake Chelsea is to me. I dont feel sorry for her one bit, and I am disgusted by her trying to talk crap about Shayne and Matt now. She needs to get over herself already. JMO

[mickaylal]

Originally Posted by northernviewer

[/u]

First of all, they do edit the show and we don't see all the footage and secondly, I don't think that Matt has the "biblical" term in mind, doesn't seem like the church goin' type to me

Well, guess you dont know what Matt meant any more than anyone knowing if Chelsea put on other panties. Her little comment about slipping into someting more comfortable really rang true. Not so much.

[mickaylal]

Originally Posted by blasie

No, it doesn't make her behavior promiscuous, but it does make it pornographic. The difference between those two is simple. Promiscuity allows for some degree of selectivity. A person may have many partners, but they are of that person's choice. Usually money doesn't change hands. I am in no way recommending it. Pornography is the product of an industry where sex is sold for money. Those who pose or perform in print or films have no say in who gets to see what they do. It can be any creep who can hand over 5 bucks. Even prostitutes can be somewhat selective.

Well maybe you need to define pornography. I looked it up. It says sexually explicit material. Well I guess that is subjective. I didnt find the photo's sexually explicit. Basically, the most revealing pic was one with her wearing boy shorts, where her butt cheeks were showing. I dont consider that pornography, but other people might. And it goes hand in hand with people who dont like Shayne, and people who do. I happen to really like Shayne, and think she is a very sweet person. If Shayne had gotten her heart broken, am pretty sure she would not have said one thing about Chelsea.

[mickaylal]

Originally Posted by mommyof2poodles

And I will quote you to make it 101 times. YOU ARE RIGHT ON! If calling Matt a douchebag and being pantyless are "crimes", "classless", etc, then this has to top it all. It is the magazine I have a problem with, not the nudity.

If they have to catch so much flak over the things they did or said then it is only fair that Shayne have to do the same. Fair is fair.

Dont know , but it seems pertty obvious that most of you have not seen the pics. She was not NUDE!. She didnt drop her drawers. She didnt talk crap about the other girls, she didnt get mad because she didnt get her way. She was probably the nicest, most fair girl in that house.

[Turtlekeeper]

Dodie.. great post.. I'm feeling it girl..