Body Language & Non Verbal Communication - *Spoilers*

[Lynn7]

Originally Posted by echo226

I worked in a bar too and left the reading to the bouncers.

I do understand, and as said, was just suggesting some reasons why you might have been pushed off track. Your post read to me as if you just read a book and were disappointed that you were really misled by the text when you got to the end. I was commiserating and sharing your pain. Yay team

Oh, I didn't mean for it to come across that way; like I was somehow being defensive with your questions. There are no inflection keys here.

You are great with your interpretation. It *really* was like a book that disappointed me with the final chapter. I'm only just a little surprised right now, having seen the FDs with all three women again, but I'm still kind of shaking my head. I'm also asking myself if I'm shaking my head because I was wrong, for the first time, about my final choice, and so my ego has been tinged, or, if I'm really shaking my head over his decision. I think there is a small part that is ego, to be honest, but I seriously don't get his decision, at this point, to send her home. I really thought that he would take her to his home before, either eliminating her, or keeping her as F1.

Incidentally, the bar that I worked in...we had no bouncers. Our bartenders were our bouncers, so to speak.

[Google]

 

[Lynn7]

Originally Posted by cynicgal

Hugs with rubbing back vs Hugs with pat-pat on the back or shoulder.

What do they mean?

I apoligize for not seeing your post.

Big, squishy hugs, rubbing the back, are affectionate and, depending on the hug, it can say that I don't want to let you go. Patting the back is friendly. It's not entirely that simple but that is the jist of it. Really, there is so much more than that. You can hug someone in a way that appears affectionate but, unless the fingers are digging into the skin, not in a painful way, it's just simply affection. Deep finger penetration reads as I don't want to let you go.

[hannelorea]

Originally Posted by Lynn7

I qualified it...you have to read it all

True you did! I guess it just made me wonder...why did they edit it this way? It was very obvious...the pause, the biting of the lip. I realize he had other body language that demonstrated his feelings but that moment really stuck in my mind as I'm sure it did other viewers. Are they trying to create doubt in our minds (doubt of his love for DeAnna) or are they trying to throw us??

Thanks also for your analysis, it's so interesting to read!

[Estella]

Lynn7, I have a question for you: Brad's "toast" to Jenni at dinner (telling her he's been waiting for this from the moment he first talked to her...), do you think that was staged? To me, it seemed like he was reciting something by heart... Also what do you think about Brad lying straight on his back while Jenni is kissing him and caressing his face? Did it just come across so awkward, or do you as our body language expert also think Brad didn't exactly feel comfortable?
Thanks in advance for answering...

[talldede]

Originally Posted by Estella

Lynn7, I have a question for you: Brad's "toast" to Jenni at dinner (telling her he's been waiting for this from the moment he first talked to her...), do you think that was staged? To me, it seemed like he was reciting something by heart... Also what do you think about Brad lying straight on his back while Jenni is kissing him and caressing his face? Did it just come across so awkward, or do you as our body language expert also think Brad didn't exactly feel comfortable?
Thanks in advance for answering...

I'm not Lynn, but wanted to give you my take on Brad's speech to Jenni.

He was trying to draw her out. He wanted so much to hear from her how she felt, and he knew she was having difficulty expressing herself, so he told her how he felt, in the hopes that she would reciprocate. She did not.

He intiated the conversation with DeAnna as well, by saying "I don't meet people like you that much." She took the lead and expressed herself beautifully, much to his pleasure and satisfaction.

[appiah01]

Originally Posted by Lynn7

I would agree with that if I interpreted the edit, but I don't. I literally am looking at the physical and facial interaction only, whether they are saying anything verbally or not, and I watch that too. I think the edit does sway viewers. There was just too much between them, spliced and diced as it was, that it was unmistakable for me. Something obviously took place between the HTD and the FD RC that led Brad to believe that there was something insurrmountable for him to continue and I just don't buy that it was simply that he didn't feel he knew the real her. That is such a broad and generalized statement in a way. How can he think that he really knows any of the women at such an early stage of their respective relationships? I've known people for 14 plus years that have surprised me on occasion. People that I thought I knew.

And, yes, Jenni does say, "yes!" at the RC.

He actually said yesterday on the radio that he and Bettina talked more after the cameras were gone and he said it was even more uncomfortable and weird than what we saw so obviously there was more to it because it was obvious that he liked her a lot before but switched it off mighty quickly.

[OutsideLookinIn]

Originally Posted by Lynn7

As I said earlier, "I'm floored." He gave every indication that he was, in every way, completely taken and interested in her. I said to someone in a PM that he is more complex and inconsistent, probably more than I gave him credit for. For example, on his 2:1 date with DeAnna his body language came across as questioning and doubtful, skeptical. Even the non-audible discussion was of nothing substantial. Last night he seemed completely enamoured with DeAnna. And it's not the edit either. Body language isn't something that you can edit away and it's even more difficult to change your body language unless you notice tendancies with yourself and make a concerted effort to change it. For example, if you bite your nails when you're nervous or intimidated it's hard to stop it but it can be done with effort.

I had another discussion, via PM, and there was an interesting question that was brought up about actors and who did I think was very good at portraying a believable body language for their parts. Very talented actors have the ability to impersonate certain types of body language (think of the movie Ray with Jamie Foxx-even Ray's son had to do double takes watching the movie). I would never even to begin to say that Brad is a good actor, for all I know he's never even so much as participated in a high school play, but we do know that he watched all of the prior seasons of the bachelor so, if anything, he might be very careful about concealing his expressions or tendancies. Having said that, when he is caught off guard, or extremely comfortable, his true expressions are loud and clear. That is the part that has me stumped because those are the moments that I'm watching very closely. In fact, there was a moment where it appears that he is saying something wonderful about Jenni, and for someone not looking closely you probably wouldn't have caught it, but his lips/jaw aren't even moving when he 'appears' to have said it, even Jenni fans pointed to that comment as proof of his love for her, but I caught it because of the 'moment' that I was watching closely.

With the HTD, even with the bad edit, and the questionable behaviour of the 'evil' HA! step mother (couldn't resist), on the steps of the monument he expressed so many varying emotions, some positive and some not, that I knew he would keep Bettina.

On the FD his body language, for the most part, other than the initial big hug, was not good at all. At times it screamed, "I'm not feeling this and I'm going through the motions." I saw Bettina as guarded at times during dinner, as was he, but I think she sensed the change in him and retreated a bit. There were moments where they seemed relaxed but, for the most part, he just didn't initiate anything with her, other than the lame kiss in the hot tub. It's interesting watching that date again because in the clips and previews that we were shown throughout the season they were shown as far more intimate and loving together and, yet, what we were shown, were the somewhat awkward and disinterested clips...chop chop chop. It makes me wonder just how much of a shock it was to Bettina that he sent her home. Note to self: Never again interpret previews. It was a first for me this year and this is the first year I was wrong for F1...go figure!!

I'm sorry this is so long winded. I generally say too little and just assume that people know what I'm talking about so I thought I'd try to be as thorough as possible

No, I didn't completely believe his goodbye explanation. There was some expression of honesty but there were also other indications that led me to believe that there was more to it. For example, he tells her that this will haunt him for the rest of his life; that he's thought about her all day, etc., they are holding hands but his is open, not even gripping hers (it's what I call a wet fish hand hold), he scratches at his eyebrow while looking down and away from her, which he has done when he's, how do I explain it, done with a woman, had enough, has no further emotional attachment. That kind of expression normally reads as cold and unfeeling, if that makes sense. So, it reads as a contradiction to me. He's saying one thing but expressing another with his face and body. With all of the things that he has said to her (ie: I really enjoyed our talk yesterday) how can he say that he didn't feel like he knew the real her? It's just a complete contradiction.

I think, in all likelihood, the HTD wasn't good, which we know, and he was in a quandry after it. He probably wanted more time with her to see if they could move beyond it and grow more together but he must have realized that he couldn't deal with the disapproving family and, decision made, he closed off. He doesn't strike me as the egomaniac that some are painting him as but I can see how his decision could be misinterpreted that way. What did he say about being patient with her two shows ago? Patience is a virtue and I, er, don't thinks he's very virtuous...LOL

Incidentally, I don't know whether or not anyone cares, but, after he walks Bettina out Jenni says, "yes!" then winks at DeAnna. I wonder what that was all about.

Lynn7, thank you for the great analysis! I really don't mind reading your analysis whether it's long or short. The longer the better actually

I've came up with the same conclusion as you did as I too study the body language and facial expression when watching Brad & Bettina. I just want to confirmed it with you to see if I'm right or not . I too doubted his explanation of not really knowing her in the end (it's very contradicting to me also) because I have seen Bettina gradually opening up to him all the way from the very first episode until the FD. For someone who's scared and guarded she DID try but maybe not hard enough for him and his expectations from her. For someone who's shy about her feelings towards him, I actually admired her courage when she said "by the end of our date I wanted you to kiss me... I wanted your hands on me... I want that...", as if she's giving him a "go" signal. For her probably that was HUGE and a big step already knowing there were cameras around and doing it in front of national tv. His "intense look" towards Bettina after giving the final rose to Deanna was not what I expected from him at all. I expected him to be more "sad" about letting her go quite honestly. I think Bettina was more in total "shock" and misread what she thought he felt towards her given how she responded riding away. Some questioned it for the lack of emotion and that she came across as cold. How do you see it Lynn7? Do you agree when people say that she probably didn't invest emotionally that's why there was also no emotion shown from her on her departure?

I totally agree with you, never again interpret previews! LOL... It's not what it seems. I have to take note on that next time (if there's any) I watch TB.

And yes, I did noticed that "yes" and the "wink" that Jenni gave to Deanna. It's interesting that the camera actually focuses it back to them after Brad & Bettina left. Wonder was that all about too. I only thing I can come up with about it is that maybe they don't like her or that they're glad that she's not in the picture anymore (competitiveness on their part) . Wonder what Brad thinks of that now.

[2observe]

I really think that Brad was expecting Bettina to begin to initiate contact at some point. However, we know that it goes against her upbringing to make the first moves, and I think Brad may have misread Bettina's non physcial contact. Am I making myself clear???...or not?

[LemonDrop]

Originally Posted by OutsideLookinIn

And yes, I did noticed that "yes" and the "wink" that Jenni gave to Deanna. It's interesting that the camera actually focuses it back to them after Brad & Bettina left. Wonder was that all about too. I only thing I can come up with about it is that maybe they don't like her or that they're glad that she's not in the picture anymore (competitiveness on their part) . Wonder what Brad thinks of that now.

My take on that is we don't know what Deanna said to Jenni or Jenni said to Deanna, OR what a Producer said off-camera to both of them (for example, "you'll be able to get off your feet in a few minutes") so I DO factor in editing.

Of course Jenni would wink and say "YES!"

[OutsideLookinIn]

Originally Posted by 2observe

I really think that Brad was expecting Bettina to begin to initiate contact at some point. However, we know that it goes against her upbringing to make the first moves, and I think Brad may have misread Bettina's non physcial contact. Am I making myself clear???...or not?

To me it's very "crystal" clear observer . He expected Bettina to show him what Jenni and Deanna are showing him. The longer he waited the more frustrated he got that in the end he went for assurance with Jenni and Deanna since he has a time-table. In the REAL WORLD he may have thought otherwise and worked on their relationship harder if it is really true love like he said.