Body Language & Non Verbal Communication - *Spoilers*

[Lynn7]

Originally Posted by echo226

Yes ... I thought that DeAnna was being pushy like she was on the 2-1 with Jade. She has an air about her that is is almost one of "entitlement' and seems to have a desire to one-up people .... Brad included.

Does anything about DeAnna's BL smack of conceit or smugness "with the sound off" ?

You know, it's so very interesting that you brought that up. Conceit generally goes along with a *lack* of being humble and overly self-confident and I do not see DeAnna as an overly confident woman. Her facial expressions during the many rose ceremonies, alone, are indicative of that. Smug, abrasive, brash, bully-ish, cold, shut off, domineering, overbearing, controlling, and occasionally sweet, caring and tender, yes...LOL How is that for so many adjectives, but, hey, I've had weeks to watch her.

I still think he's going to end up picking her, because he brings something out of her that is so tender and, almost, endearing, almost...LOL...that must just be his kind of gal. Complicated and pushy.

[Google]

 

[echo226]

Originally Posted by Lynn7

You know, it's so very interesting that you brought that up. Conceit generally goes along with a *lack* of being humble and overly self-confident and I do not see DeAnna as an overly confident woman. Her facial expressions during the many rose ceremonies, alone, are indicative of that. Smug, abrasive, brash, bully-ish, cold, shut off, domineering, overbearing, controlling, and occasionally sweet, caring and tender, yes...LOL How is that for so many adjectives, but, hey, I've had weeks to watch her.

I still think he's going to end up picking her, because he brings something out of her that is so tender and, almost, endearing, almost...LOL...that must just be his kind of gal. Complicated and pushy.

Thanks, Lynn. I said conceit OR smugness. I pulled the conceit from the comment about the 24 other beautiful girls.

So you do see the smugness ( and all the rest ) in the body language too.

He said you shouldn't have to work that hard with regard to Bettina, but I think DeAnna is going to be a lot of work.

I'm off to bed ... my body language is collapsing ! g'night !

[Lynn7]

Originally Posted by echo226

Thanks, Lynn. I said conceit OR smugness. I pulled the conceit from the comment about the 24 other beautiful girls.

So you do see the smugness ( and all the rest ) in the body language too.

He said you shouldn't have to work that hard with regard to Bettina, but I think DeAnna is going to be a lot of work.

I'm off to bed ... my body language is collapsing ! g'night !

Actually, this gives me an opportunity to differentiate between body language, lip and facial expressions. They are *three* different aspects of our communication and not one in the same. It's true that I, for one, look at all three to try and figure things out but I look at the whole picture, as individual pieces, then put the puzzle together.

Our bodies may not necessarily go along with what our faces and lips are indicating. For example, trial lawyers are very good at convincing the juries with their facial expressions because that is, more than anything, what the jury is paying attention to. We, as sexual human beings, generally, respond to physical touch more than we do looking at a persons face or lips (though I'm the exception, out of necessity, I'm sure).

DeAnna is more of a facial expression kind of gal. I read more from her in what her face or eyes are telling me than what her body is saying...although most of the time she has the blinking eyes or slumped shoulders, which reads as nervous or insincere and non confident or bad posture, she is an interesting and complicated woman to be sure ...LOL Jenni has a little more depth, in terms of reading the whole person, which is why I really don't think he'll pick her. It isn't that she doesn't respond to him but more that her whole person is so easy to read and therefore his response to her is easy to read. I hope that makes sense.

I understand what he meant by saying that it shouldn't be that much work but I think he's living in a fantasy world. Any great, long lasting relationship, takes work. When it came to Bettina it only seemed to become 'that much work' after the HTD and he had been embarrassed and challenged about his being an intellectual or not (though the mothers, especially the step-mother, treated him with disdain). His ego took a huge hit and it seems as though he took it personally and hasn't let that go and has belittled her, publicly, to get back at her family, through her. I don't think that's right. The only way I know how to explain it better is when two people break up, and there are still emotions of love between them, and the guy is hurt, he barks back in ways that will make it impossible to repair the damage but he comes out appearing to be "the man" as Brad has said himself that he likes to appear to be.

[Estella]

I noticed something about DeAnna that is not exactly body language, but I think also something to "read between the lines". She is usually very well-spoken and states her thoughts pretty clearly. However, when she's talking to Brad (about her feelings in particular), she seems to get really nervous and suddenly, it's like she has a hard time of pulling a sentence together... Here are two examples:

During their one-on-one time before RC 5
And I- like every night where- when I'm going to see you - or date- I'm nervous, extremely nervous (...)

That is definitely NOT how DeAnna usually speaks. It's just like she said, she gets nervous around him and doesn't know how to deal with it.

At dinner during fantasy date
I knew from the second that I got here… I knew, I just knew. I just knew, I don’t know, everything just felt right, everything just felt like this is the way it was supposed to be.

I found this whole "I knew" speech very cute, but I was also sitting there saying "okay, I got it now...". And I was cracking up at the four "I knew"s followed by "I don't know". This shows how nervous she gets around Brad, and I think it's a positive nervousness. She really likes him!

Any thoughts about that?

[appiah01]

Originally Posted by Estella

I noticed something about DeAnna that is not exactly body language, but I think also something to "read between the lines". She is usually very well-spoken and states her thoughts pretty clearly. However, when she's talking to Brad (about her feelings in particular), she seems to get really nervous and suddenly, it's like she has a hard time of pulling a sentence together... Here are two examples:

During their one-on-one time before RC 5
And I- like every night where- when I'm going to see you - or date- I'm nervous, extremely nervous (...)

That is definitely NOT how DeAnna usually speaks. It's just like she said, she gets nervous around him and doesn't know how to deal with it.

At dinner during fantasy date
I knew from the second that I got here… I knew, I just knew. I just knew, I don’t know, everything just felt right, everything just felt like this is the way it was supposed to be.

I found this whole "I knew" speech very cute, but I was also sitting there saying "okay, I got it now...". And I was cracking up at the four "I knew"s followed by "I don't know". This shows how nervous she gets around Brad, and I think it's a positive nervousness. She really likes him!

Any thoughts about that?

I think it's true. Many people said she is very poised (Chad, Solisa, Michele)...not so when expressing these feelings. I thik she is being honest when she says she doesn't wear her heart on her sleeve- Lord knows it's been crushed before, and that she really is taking a risk putting it out there and it's hard for her but the fact that she is doing it and honestly the fact that she didn't leave tells me she is actually in love with him. My guess is Deanna can be accused of being many things but being a liar does not seem like one them. I honestly feel like if she was not really feeling Brad she wouldn't say it if for nothing else than to protect herself, which I am guessing is her normal MO.

It's a lot like Tessa and Andy last season. Both are higly educated, intelligent people but how many times did they say "like" when articulating their feelings (especially on the Cinderella date- I like really like like you. Like where did you like come from). I highly doubt they speak in that manner regularly.

I love Deanna. I actually like that there is a woman who is complex and her multidimensional personality is actually being shown for a change. It makes the whole thing seem more real and less like a fairytale between two perfect people that they normally try and craft.

[fan*addict]

Originally Posted by Lynn7

Actually, this gives me an opportunity to differentiate between body language, lip and facial expressions. They are *three* different aspects of our communication and not one in the same. It's true that I, for one, look at all three to try and figure things out but I look at the whole picture, as individual pieces, then put the puzzle together.

Our bodies may not necessarily go along with what our faces and lips are indicating.

SO TRUE...I am one of those people who speaks more with facial expresssions...(especially the eyes~they are after all the window to our soul) and most times my body language is saying one thing but my facial expressions say something completely different....those who don;t me..or upon first meeting me...often think I am bold, stand-off"ish" (is that a word?) and even arrogant....It is a trait, I work hard at trying to soften....but we are who we are...

I think that DeAnna is this type of person as well...and what we are seeing most of the time is the body language...and as Lynn as so pointed out to us there are many ways we express our thoughts, our opinions, and what is deep in our hearts and souls!

[Dogma]

Originally Posted by maxnsam

I am still trying to figure out why her hair is down at first and then in the middle of the dinner it is up....very weird...

Originally Posted by appiah01

I think they just cut out a lot of filler. If you notice when her hair is down there isn't any food on the table and then when they get to the intense part of the discussion her hair is up and their dinner has arrived. They probably bantered back and forth, ordered, did lots of things and the producers just put in the parts most relevant to the advancement of the story.

Has anyone else noticed that during their FD dinner that DeAnna had been crying, perhaps even quite a bit? I noticed varying amounts of fresh tears glistening on her neck and the down the front of her chest (her right side, visually to our left). For tears to roll all the way down your neck would indicate that she was unable to hold them back, or did not even try. This could also account for the fidgeting with her hair, leaning her head back and slightly to her right, the blinking, and her flushed cheeks. The amount of tears varies from clip to clip indicating that the scenes were not spliced in order. When Brad asks her to go to the Fantasy Suite, there are still tears on her neck, yet when she give her response, her make-up has already been refreshed, and she is as cool as a cucumber again. This means there were probably several retakes of their dinner conversations. I think the responses where you can see her tears and Brad's reaction without an edit are the most telling and honest, like when he pulls her in for their (hot ) kiss. This dinner scene was heavily edited, unless she began to cry very soon after they started talking, but I tend to believe that there was a great deal of conversation, meaningful conversation and not just filler, that we were not privy to. Her hair looked so beautiful when she arrived, I wonder if she put it up because it was getting wet and sticking to her neck . . .

I also noticed (ok, I confess I have watched this scene several times!) that their conversations from different parts of dinner are spliced together. Brad's facial expressions are from a lighter, less intense part of the conversation than DeAnna's facial expressions. There are several times where you see Brad looking relaxed, yet attentive, leaning in to her, and she is actually leaning into him with her fingers to her face and mouth, elbow on the table (from over her shoulder so we cannot see her face, and they are having what seems like pleasant dinner conversation, and she is telling a story). Those are the moments where he looks most relaxed and happy, yet when the switch back to DeAnna, it is at a much different point in the conversation, her more intense and emotional moments. The actual conversation is edited over with the more emotional statements, which is why Brad's body language seems almost seems too relaxed and at ease as DeAnna is declaring her feelings. That is also why, as lovely as it is, this scene does not add up for me. We missed Brad's actual reactions when she is professing her deepest feelings. It would be telling if he either had his arms crossed, or if he was shown stiffening and emotionally withdrawing slightly as we have seen him do when confronted with tears or when he is uncomfortable; or did he reciprocate her expression of love either verbally, physically, or was he moved to tears as well? I can tell that DeAnna's clips were heavily edited, but do we even get to see how Brad truly reacted? Is this what he means by he is 'too honest' and 'gives too much away'?

As much as I enjoy the body language, and is how I prefer to make my assessments, the editing has really tried to throw viewers off the track, and judging by the posts which question whether DeAnna is warm, caring, or even emotionally invested, well, I guess in some ways it is succeeding. Any thoughts?

[Jewelsy]

I was just having a bit of déjà vu.

Originally Posted by Jewelsy on 09-25-07 -- from "Spoilers & screencap Analysis, Part 1"

Great observations, Lynn! I'm rewatching (listening) the show again and will be comparing his tone with your observations. Awesome!

I'm wondering if this topic should have its own thread as it seems like it would make for some great discussion. I could move it (and any replies) to it's own thread. Or not.

We had a body language thread last season but it was started after most had already formed an opinion so maybe it would work this time - BEFORE anyone has a favorite.

What do y'all think?

and your response:

Originally Posted by Lynn7 on 09-25-07 - from "Spoilers & Screencap Analysis, Part 1&quot

...For myself, I think I'd prefer to keep it all in the same place so you get screencap analysis coupled with other types of analysis as opposed to referring to two different threads for information.

Are you kicking yourself now?

[Minney]

Originally Posted by Dogma

Has anyone else noticed that during their FD dinner that DeAnna had been crying, perhaps even quite a bit? I noticed varying amounts of fresh tears glistening on her neck and the down the front of her chest (her right side, visually to our left). For tears to roll all the way down your neck would indicate that she was unable to hold them back, or did not even try. This could also account for the fidgeting with her hair, leaning her head back and slightly to her right, the blinking, and her flushed cheeks. The amount of tears varies from clip to clip indicating that the scenes were not spliced in order. When Brad asks her to go to the Fantasy Suite, there are still tears on her neck, yet when she give her response, her make-up has already been refreshed, and she is as cool as a cucumber again. This means there were probably several retakes of their dinner conversations. I think the responses where you can see her tears and Brad's reaction without an edit are the most telling and honest, like when he pulls her in for their (hot ) kiss. This dinner scene was heavily edited, unless she began to cry very soon after they started talking, but I tend to believe that there was a great deal of conversation, meaningful conversation and not just filler, that we were not privy to. Her hair looked so beautiful when she arrived, I wonder if she put it up because it was getting wet and sticking to her neck . . .

I also noticed (ok, I confess I have watched this scene several times!) that their conversations from different parts of dinner are spliced together. Brad's facial expressions are from a lighter, less intense part of the conversation than DeAnna's facial expressions. There are several times where you see Brad looking relaxed, yet attentive, leaning in to her, and she is actually leaning into him with her fingers to her face and mouth, elbow on the table (from over her shoulder so we cannot see her face, and they are having what seems like pleasant dinner conversation, and she is telling a story). Those are the moments where he looks most relaxed and happy, yet when the switch back to DeAnna, it is at a much different point in the conversation, her more intense and emotional moments. The actual conversation is edited over with the more emotional statements, which is why Brad's body language seems almost seems too relaxed and at ease as DeAnna is declaring her feelings. That is also why, as lovely as it is, this scene does not add up for me. We missed Brad's actual reactions when she is professing her deepest feelings. It would be telling if he either had his arms crossed, or if he was shown stiffening and emotionally withdrawing slightly as we have seen him do when confronted with tears or when he is uncomfortable; or did he reciprocate her expression of love either verbally, physically, or was he moved to tears as well? I can tell that DeAnna's clips were heavily edited, but do we even get to see how Brad truly reacted? Is this what he means by he is 'too honest' and 'gives too much away'?

As much as I enjoy the body language, and is how I prefer to make my assessments, the editing has really tried to throw viewers off the track, and judging by the posts which question whether DeAnna is warm, caring, or even emotionally invested, well, I guess in some ways it is succeeding. Any thoughts?

Actually the poor girl is sweating quite a bit! Was there no air conditioning? I think she handled the heat issue much better than I ever would and still managed to come away fresh looking where I would be wilted and crabby!

[BlondieGal]

Hee hee! Jewelsy knows when there is a hot topic that needs its own thread.