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Thread: Editing, Editing, Editing - Bachelor 11 **Spoilers**

  1. #91
    FORT Regular Laser62's Avatar
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    Re: Editing, Editing, Editing - Bachelor 11 **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by MomLady;2644410;
    Another idea:

    I truly believe that Fleiss decides F2 if the bachelor, in this case Brad, is very sure of himself from early on. Then he is told who to carry a relationship with for F2. His next closest relationship is F3 which does not have to be forced.

    I think that would have been Bettina because she fell hard the first night similar to Bevin. Since Jenni was more liberal with the kissing then Bettina, Jenni was going to go to F2 because it would be a more exciting F2. Jenni and DeAnna got the typical F2 visit gifts.

    I am now thinking because Bettina's date went so bad, they had Brad give a hot tub kiss. (F1 always has the hot tub/bath time. This season we got that with Bettina, but we also see Brad and DeAnna in the pool. Is this a first?) Fleiss is going to get Bettina as F2, for the suspense of F2 and see if Brad still picks Bettina after the home town visit.
    The consensus of opinion seems to be that no one ever has gotten as bad an edit as Bettina. If Bettina does end up being in the F2 round (which for many, many reasons I'm convinced she will be, see the Bettina Spoiler thread)... no matter who she's up against... wouldn't the obvious choice be the person other than Bettina? Could Fleiss truly be that obvious?

    Remember, there's never been anyone standing behind Fleiss twisting his arm and forcing him to give Bettina such a bad edit. Could he really and truly be that mean to a poor unsuspecting bachelorette? Would any normal woman apply for "The Bachelor 12", knowing she and her family could be lambasted to this extent and get sent home empty handed?

    This may be a case of "seemed like a good idea at the time" from Fleiss... make the F1 seem like the impossible choice, and then let Brad declare his undying love for her at the FRC.

    TV producers have mental lapses all the time. "Viva Laughlin" ...need I say more?

  2. #92
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    Re: Editing, Editing, Editing - Bachelor 11 **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by shoepie;2646072;
    I believe this as well. The OH NO! factor will be securely in place. Viewers on the edge of their seats thinking, ohhhhhh he wouldnt dare choose cool insecure Bettina with that horrid family over Deanna and her warm household, etc.

    Please do not rush forward and defend Bettina. I am just thinking as the producer would with what they have to work with. Okay?
    I understand that the HT visit with Bettina was pretty bad, but how does that reflect who Bettina is? I think the main reason that the visit was so shocking was because of the fact that Bettina is not like that. If she was the horrible name calling witch that so many seem to view her as, the hometown visit wouldn't have been a big deal. It's pretty sad that people view her this way because she hasn't done anything half as drastic as some of the other women this season. Whether or not she makes it past this Monday, she isn't a horrible person. And no matter who makes it to the end, that needs to be realized. JMO.

  3. #93
    FORT Fan drparoo's Avatar
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    Re: Editing, Editing, Editing - Bachelor 11 **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by PrettyGreenEyes;2646316;
    I understand that the HT visit with Bettina was pretty bad, but how does that reflect who Bettina is? I think the main reason that the visit was so shocking was because of the fact that Bettina is not like that. If she was the horrible name calling witch that so many seem to view her as, the hometown visit wouldn't have been a big deal. It's pretty sad that people view her this way because she hasn't done anything half as drastic as some of the other women this season. Whether or not she makes it past this Monday, she isn't a horrible person. And no matter who makes it to the end, that needs to be realized. JMO.
    I don't think she's a horrible person, I would never consider any of the girls to be. But I do think that she seemed very detached when Brad was very upset about what her parents said. I don't think I've ever seen a bachelor that upset before....and there seemed very little nurturing on her part, and it struck me as odd. But obviously we didn't see the whole conversation.

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    Re: Editing, Editing, Editing - Bachelor 11 **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by drparoo;2646358;
    I don't think she's a horrible person, I would never consider any of the girls to be. But I do think that she seemed very detached when Brad was very upset about what her parents said. I don't think I've ever seen a bachelor that upset before....and there seemed very little nurturing on her part, and it struck me as odd. But obviously we didn't see the whole conversation.
    It's good to know you don't, but some people do seem to view Bettina in a awful way for some reason. I think she looked detached because of the situation that she is in. Based off of her previous marraige, this is probably the first time that she is standing up for someone that she has chosen in a relationship. That can be very difficult and scary because it is a very difficult situation to be in, especially when the person you are with has others to choose from and you don't. Obviously, she's never been in the type of predicament, so how else is she going to react.
    confidence is beautiful!

  5. #95
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    Re: Editing, Editing, Editing - Bachelor 11 **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser62;2646198;
    The consensus of opinion seems to be that no one ever has gotten as bad an edit as Bettina. If Bettina does end up being in the F2 round (which for many, many reasons I'm convinced she will be, see the Bettina Spoiler thread)... no matter who she's up against... wouldn't the obvious choice be the person other than Bettina? Could Fleiss truly be that obvious?

    Remember, there's never been anyone standing behind Fleiss twisting his arm and forcing him to give Bettina such a bad edit. Could he really and truly be that mean to a poor unsuspecting bachelorette? Would any normal woman apply for "The Bachelor 12", knowing she and her family could be lambasted to this extent and get sent home empty handed?

    This may be a case of "seemed like a good idea at the time" from Fleiss... make the F1 seem like the impossible choice, and then let Brad declare his undying love for her at the FRC.

    TV producers have mental lapses all the time. "Viva Laughlin" ...need I say more?
    Laser,

    I just had to respond to your question: Could he really and truly be that mean to a poor unsuspecting bachelorette?

    Remember, there's never been anyone standing behind Fleiss twisting his arm and forcing him to give Bettina such a bad edit. Could he really and truly be that mean to a poor unsuspecting bachelorette?

    I am not a fan of Bevin in the least, but even I know that most of what was on screen must of been her worse times in the house.

    Would any normal woman apply for "The Bachelor 12", knowing she and her family could be lambasted to this extent and get sent home empty handed?

    All of these women who saw Bevin's edit applied. People that saw Moana limo scene applied.

    This is why I was so glad when Tina did her blog. Tina actually gave some very useful information on what really goes down how things are taped etc.

    I posted the article of Realty/soap opera. This is almost all staged the only thing they are not real actors.

    When DeAnna told Jenni Trust no one. That is the best advice possible. Non of the crew is a friend. Moana found that out the hard way.

    The way the woman are made to cry is bad.

    I can't help but think these women get into the house and they are treated as they are being brain washed in a cult. Total isolation from the outside world. They are only allowed to talk about the Bachelor or what they are told to talk about. They are told where to stand at each taping. Food is brought into them. These women are really at the mercy of TPTB.

    Sorry for venting, but that question of could Fleiss really be that mean?, sets me off, I think for him it is the bottom line of rating and money.

    Does emotions really play any part in it, is my question?

    I truly believe only the strongest of women who are sure of themselves should apply to this show. Any woman with any insecurities will be taken advantage of. Anyone who can fall for a guy easily should stay clear away, she will be put through the wringer. Be sure you can stand up for yourself and be persistent. This does not mean you will not get a bad image/edit, but at least you will not be totally manipulated. Just my opinion of course.

  6. #96
    FORT Regular Laser62's Avatar
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    Re: Editing, Editing, Editing - Bachelor 11 **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by PrettyGreenEyes;2646365;
    It's good to know you don't, but some people do seem to view Bettina in a awful way for some reason. I think she looked detached because of the situation that she is in. Based off of her previous marraige, this is probably the first time that she is standing up for someone that she has chosen in a relationship. That can be very difficult and scary because it is a very difficult situation to be in, especially when the person you are with has others to choose from and you don't. Obviously, she's never been in the type of predicament, so how else is she going to react.
    Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd also have been very careful about what I said about my Father on national television... and he could be very judgemental at times. Bettina was in an impossible position. Brad should ultimately appreciate that Bettina refrained from saying anything about her Dad that would imply she didn't respect him.

    I'm sure if she showed such discretion where her Dad was concerned, she would show an equal amount, if not more, towards her eventual significant other. Remember, neither she nor her family spoke ill of her ex-husband... that's actually a beautiful thing. Isn't it sort of a SOUTHERN thing... to hold back from speaking negatively about people. I'm saying Bettina displayed this quality... restraint, her Dad certainly could have been more reserved (unless it was all in the editing... but that seems a bit farfetched to be true.)

    A lot of people would do well to consider such a quality in a potential mate as very attractive. I've heard people trash their current mates in public... all the while claiming to love them. Don't get me started on the way most people revile their former mates. It's very unbecoming.
    Last edited by Laser62; 11-03-2007 at 10:50 PM.

  7. #97
    is mostly lurking... Secret's Avatar
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    Re: Editing, Editing, Editing - Bachelor 11 **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Minney;2643903;
    Every season each girl has a tv personality and edit that tells her/bachelors story. Then story line continues with a conflict and then there is either a resolution and they are F1 or there is no resolution and they go home. Last season the story lines were evident and grew through the season between Tessa and Bevin. With Bevin, both Andy and Bevin agreed that they had the chemistry but it was always questioned if they had more... with Tessa it was her reluctance and her baby steps. During the finale we saw Tessa over come her conflict to be F1. What are the storyline/conflicts to be overcome this season?

    Jenni is easy because it's all about her dance career and the long distance relationship. Either Brad will be ok with it or it will be her storyline for not receiving a rose.

    Bettina has many conflicts but I'm not sure which is her true story line. Is it the divorce, the family, her not being able to open up?

    DD is a strong woman who has had to overcome much in her early life. Is this her story line? What has to be overcome now to be F1? If there is nothing then does she get a free pass to F1?

    I know there are many hopeless romantics on this board with many over the top ending senario's! I'm just trying to logically follow the storylines to see a conclusion since we have no screencaps to study. I know Fleiss creates and hides a story each season, it's just really really really difficult this time!
    I had completely forgotten that I wanted to repond to this post, Minney. It's a very thoughtful post and it's another good way to consider the edit. You're right, from a storytelling perspective, Bettina's and Jenni have both been given an issue to be overcome in the way their stories are told on the show. Deanna really hasn't, except for being 'strong'.

    But, that doesn't necessarily mean she isn't F1. In some seasons, yes, the storyline is told from a perspective that there's a conflict and a resolution - Tessa was a great example of that, Ian comes to mind as well, but it doesn't always happen in every season from what I recall. Particulary with recent seasons - neither Sarah S or Jen (Lorenzo) really had a major issue to overcome. They were just there at the end.

    I watched parts of Trista's and Andrew's season, but started watching more closely after Bob's season (eww). I never got the impression that Jen overcome anything other than rescuing Andrew from Kirsten's evil clutches. Trista - Ryan overcame the distance issue, that Trista would have to move and make that conscious decision for her future.

    Did Estella overcome anything, other than crying alot and wrinkling her forehead all of the time? I've kind of blocked out that season, but as I recall, we knew more about Kelly Jo than we did about Estella, which is why she was very popular and many were crying along with her when she was heartbroken.

    Meredith's season has already been addressed. That ending was the resolution of the commitmentphobe storyline that had been told all season regarding Ian. That moment where he threw caution to the wind, especially the scream at the end? Fleiss probably won't get many resolutions as good as that one. *sigh*

    Jesse - no idea. Watched it, but I could barely tell you anything about anyone except Trish and one of them puking in the bushes on the way to FRC.

    Byron - didn't watch, so can't comment. From what I've heard I missed out on a great season.

    With Jen, Jerry had the player, is he there for the right reasons, edit. She also had the best chemistry/connection with him. The ending, in retrospect, didn't really resolve anything since she wound up choosing no one, but at the time, when he proposed and she sort of accepted and at least chose him, that 'resolved' his edit.

    Charlie, all I know is that I figured he'd choose Sara B from pretty early on because she seemed to be the only one he really liked. I suppose her conflict was taking things slow, but he was patient and they wound up together.

    Travis, as I said above, the conflicts laid out all season that had potential resolutions were with Moana and Susan. Moana had the emotional, deep, connection edit, which at the time seemed pretty negative but in retrospect, doesn't seem as bad. But, in contrast, Sarah S storyline pretty well amounted to - You're perfect for me. We're both from Nashvull. Oh, and did they have chemistry? Eventhough Sarah was F1, the answer, apparently, was no.

    With Lorenzo, I personally never saw much of a connection between Lorenzo and Jen. But, I definitely never saw a big conflict/issue/storyline for Jen, either. She was just sweet and there and a teacher. The focus of much of the storytelling was on Sadie. She had a clear cut issue/resolution. But, he chose Jen instead. No real resolution there, just a choice.

    Just my 50 cents or so on that issue of how the F1 story is told. Please, if I'm forgetting a storyline/conflict for a particular season, feel free to fill in the blanks.
    Last edited by Secret; 11-03-2007 at 10:51 PM.

  8. #98
    FORT Fogey rileymeboy's Avatar
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    Re: Editing, Editing, Editing - Bachelor 11 **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by MomLady;2643075;
    If Brad picks Bettina both pajamasam and I will be surprised.

    I saw the physical connection Andy had with Bevin. I knew it as not her because I saw the love at first sight with Tessa. I see a lot less if nothing that Brad has for Bettina.

    Many of us saw the love at first sight with Tessa. We also saw the physical attraction with Bevin just as Brad appears to have with Jeannie. Brad was impressed with DeAnna at the beginning, the fact she spoke greek caused him to remember her, also the fact she was from near Atlanta, Ga, near where Brad lived when he was younger. All this made DeAnna someone he immediately felt comfortable with and a bond did form between them.

    The spark in his eyes and smile on his face when Brettina stepped out of the limo was unforgettable, he was almost tongue tied just as Andy was with Tessa. He was watching as she walked away and did that little tilt to his head we have learned to watch for. Bettina was also impressed, she did a little quick step as she walked away. From what I saw, it was a mutual attraction from the beginning and one that Brad felt strongly enough about to hang in there for. With every thing we have seen, I see an even stronger attraction each episole. Along with the problems has come compromise, understanding and what many of us see...a beautiful future together. This match would be one I would bet on, to make it.

    To me, MomLady, we each have reasons to account for who we care far and just as you would be disappointed if DeAnna doesn't win. Others of us will be disappointed if Bettina doesn't win and still others feel the same about Jeannie.

    We all watch the same thing, but, we do see those things differently.

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    Re: Editing, Editing, Editing - Bachelor 11 **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by drparoo;2646358;
    ....and there seemed very little nurturing on her part, and it struck me as odd. But obviously we didn't see the whole conversation.
    And has already been mentioned, it appears that quite a bit of the significant parts of the conversation that must have led to some sort of resolution were edited out since there didn't seem to be much detachment going on between them at the RC.

  10. #100
    FORT Fogey MomLady's Avatar
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    Re: Editing, Editing, Editing - Bachelor 11 **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by rileymeboy;2646447;
    Many of us saw the love at first sight with Tessa. We also saw the physical attraction with Bevin just as Brad appears to have with Jeannie. Brad was impressed with DeAnna at the beginning, the fact she spoke greek caused him to remember her, also the fact she was from near Atlanta, Ga, near where Brad lived when he was younger. All this made DeAnna someone he immediately felt comfortable with and a bond did form between them.

    The spark in his eyes and smile on his face when Brettina stepped out of the limo was unforgettable, he was almost tongue tied just as Andy was with Tessa. He was watching as she walked away and did that little tilt to his head we have learned to watch for. Bettina was also impressed, she did a little quick step as she walked away. From what I saw, it was a mutual attraction from the beginning and one that Brad felt strongly enough about to hang in there for. With every thing we have seen, I see an even stronger attraction each episole. Along with the problems has come compromise, understanding and what many of us see...a beautiful future together. This match would be one I would bet on, to make it.

    To me, MomLady, we each have reasons to account for who we care far and just as you would be disappointed if DeAnna doesn't win. Others of us will be disappointed if Bettina doesn't win and still others feel the same about Jeannie.

    We all watch the same thing, but, we do see those things differently.
    I did see Brad's total surprise when Bettina said she surfs. Brad was totally surprised that Bettina surfs. How come does Bettina know that Brad wants to learn how to surf.

    I agree we each see something differnet. Are the difference the real thing or what the edit lets us believe what is real.

    To me, MomLady, we each have reasons to account for who we care far and just as you would be disappointed if DeAnna doesn't win. Others of us will be disappointed if Bettina doesn't win and still others feel the same about Jeannie.


    I agree some of us will be disappointed.

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