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Thread: 5/21 Show Discussion Thread. .. Sleuther Style!

  1. #531
    FORT Fogey Beachmom's Avatar
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    Re: 5/21 Show Discussion Thread. .. Sleuther Style!

    It really hit home for me last night that Andy couldn't say how he really felt to Tessa (or any of the other girls). Do the girls know this? I guess they do. Even if someone is falling madly in love with you, he can't say this because of the constraints of the show.

    IMO, there was never any real struggle between Bevin and Tessa. You either fall in love or you don't. I do think Andy loved Bevin, and Danielle, as one would love a close friend. Andy is an open, affectionate person - you can see his family is too. I'm sure it was hard for him with Bevin, but I think he knew who he was going to choose.

    So do all men like women who play hard to get? Sure they're going to be attracted to someone who is all over them, but there is nothing wrong with being a little more reserved and letting him come to you! It's all a matter of two different personalities with two different girls.

    Bevin handled things well. Earlier in the shows I wondered how she couldn't see the attraction Andy had for Tessa. But after being here and learning more about the show, I realize that the girls don't know completely how he might relate to the others. So much for me to learn! Now I'm addicted - I'll be back next time!

  2. #532
    "SPYING" ButterflyFaery's Avatar
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    Re: 5/21 Show Discussion Thread. .. Sleuther Style!

    Well I am gonna say a few things and I will probably get bashed..but so be it...

    1st---Fleiss you piece of crap--- you did everything you could to edit the show to make Bevin look like sh**...and you did it on PURPOSE..WHY such cruelty????

    2nd---(here comes the bashing) lol..but for years now women have been fighting that they should be able to express themselves and shouldn't have to play "COY" games to catch a man....this again IMO was hypocritical on Fleiss's part....how many times have we seen women leave this show saying..its my fault because I didn't put myself out there and I should have but I was holding too much in????? Okay Bevin didn't hold it in, and Fleiss did nothing but do everything possible to humilate her?

    3rd---The joy of the proposal to me was wayyyyyyy overshadowed by what had happened with Bevin...I know everyone is saying there is a difference in "loving" someone and "being in love" with someone and ITA....but look at this total process----the night before, if the man told you HE LOVED YOU...how would you look at it? Then he tells her again he loves her and ITS NOT A REJECTION?...then WTF is it? Would you feel lied too, led on, and betrayed? I know I would...and I wouldnt' have said anything either....but I would have knocked the crap out of him....then busted Fleiss...lol

    4th----Tessa....she much be a much stronger woman than I am..cause I don't know if I could watch that and still look at him the SAME way again... ...do I think it will last? I have no idea...I hope they are happy..but I really wonder IF it will always be in the back of her mind that 20 minutes before he proposed to me, he told someone else he loved them too...that has to be HARD to deal with and move past...

    In conclusion...Fleiss edited this show with what I call a "IFY" love story between Andy and Tessa....in some ways you saw it and in others there was a lot of doubt cast....and towards Bevin...it was edited in the most cruel way I have ever seen on this show!!! Now Andy, sorry my respect meter for him dropped a great deal, I could see he was upset at sending Bevin home, but WHY tell her you love her?????? That was just more cruelty piled on...
    SAVE THE WHALES..THE OCEANS DIE..WE DIE!!!

  3. #533
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    Re: 5/21 Show Discussion Thread. .. Sleuther Style!

    I wonder whether he asked permission to tell both the women that he loved them before the finale. I was surprised to hear him say that, so I wonder whether he so much wanted to be sure they both knew that he cared about them that he pitched it to the producers and they said, Okay, as long as you keep it really short and say the same words to both.


    I think Andy's an emotional guy who really did have strong feelings of one kind or another for both these women. And since the show ends with the Bachelor getting what *he* wants, I kind of think that he probably just didn't realize that, for some people, hearing that he "loved" you but was picking someone else could make things worse .... (That's just for some people, though; frankly, were I Bevin, I would rather have heard that than not have heard it, because, to me, it would have clarified that he wasn't just acting the whole time with me and that I wasn't just fantasizing the whole time .... People have quite different reactions to stuff like that, of course.)

  4. #534
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    Re: 5/21 Show Discussion Thread. .. Sleuther Style!

    i have been thinking and i sure hope they let Tessa see this last episode before last night. To be on tv this morning after watching last night's episode would be really hard. Actually, i would dump him after seeing that. I still say that it wasn't ethical to tell Bevin he loved her when she meant it another way and he knew it. It got her hopes up. He might be an officer, but he was no gentlemen.

  5. #535
    FORT Fogey ScoutMom's Avatar
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    Re: 5/21 Show Discussion Thread. .. Sleuther Style!

    I completely agree that Andy loved Bevin, but was IN love with Tessa. Of course, we have no idea what else happened and what other conversations there were. We only saw bits and pieces. I think when Andy told Bevin he loved her, it was in the moment. She told him she loved him, and if he didn't respond somehow, it would have been completely obvious. I think he did love her as a person, loved a lot of things about her. Unfortunately, I think Bevin did what most of us would do, and took that to mean she was going to be F1.

    On ther other hand, Andy is in love with Tessa. It was very obvious to me when he said it to Tessa on their date, it was a completely different kind of love. It was the kind of love that grows and gets stronger and better as time goes on.

    At the end of the day, I feel extremely sorry for Bevin. I think she got a much better edit towards the end, and I think she did get hurt. HOWEVER, I also think that she wasn't IN love with Andy either. I think she got caught up in the process. And one thing that keeps haunting me is the conversation she had with her dad during the hometown dates. It was when she said that she never meets guys like Andy or when would she ever meet another guy like him, or something to that effect. It made me think she was convincing herself she was in love with him because he was a Navy officer, doctor, etc. I do think she was hurt, but I also think she'll get over it pretty quickly as it wasn't REAL love to begin with.

  6. #536
    WOO~HOO!!!!!! hayleysmommy's Avatar
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    Re: 5/21 Show Discussion Thread. .. Sleuther Style!

    I can't believe I amback on here LOL!!! But.. I still can't believe he told them both he loved them. I was "freaking out" My husband thought I was nuts. I really hate how it came off that Bevin was the back-up girl. I wonder after watching it if she felt that way too? Anyway I was thrilled that he chose Tessa. My husband was teasing last night and said "She (Tessa) had him with the collage"

    The only thing I found annoying last night was didn't Tessa already tell Andy that she was falling in love with him on their fantasy date? It just seemed that I had heard that speech before.. and so did Andy. BTW I loved Andy's family. His sister really seemed to like Tessa. Thank God! And Andy's grandpa.. adorable.

    As a member of the hammock brigade I am thrilled they are together, I just feel for Bevin. Maybe they are setting her up to be the Bachlorette. Oh well.. what am I going to do with my time now?? I guess it's back to reality..LOL
    "Reality is the leading cause of stress among those in touch with it!"

    Lily Tomlin

  7. #537
    FORT Fogey Beachmom's Avatar
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    Re: 5/21 Show Discussion Thread. .. Sleuther Style!

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoutMom;2411837;
    At the end of the day, I feel extremely sorry for Bevin. I think she got a much better edit towards the end, and I think she did get hurt. HOWEVER, I also think that she wasn't IN love with Andy either. I think she got caught up in the process. And one thing that keeps haunting me is the conversation she had with her dad during the hometown dates. It was when she said that she never meets guys like Andy or when would she ever meet another guy like him, or something to that effect. It made me think she was convincing herself she was in love with him because he was a Navy officer, doctor, etc. I do think she was hurt, but I also think she'll get over it pretty quickly as it wasn't REAL love to begin with.

    I think you're right. I think they focused on Bevin too much throughout the show and made her look too self-confident about her relationship with Andy, along with the other not-flattering sides of her we saw. I wonder if the show would have been different if she had not had her ankle injury. I know she did, but they focused on that way too much!

  8. #538
    FORT Fogey bugsme3's Avatar
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    Re: 5/21 Show Discussion Thread. .. Sleuther Style!

    I personally would not be upset. You can love someone and not be in love with the person. Tessa watching this show must see that when she was around him how he acted, and how he just stare at her, touch her, respond to her listen to her. To me he can into this thinking all would fall at his feet but met the LADY AND HIS PRINCESS in a woman who would not do that. I also saw that he was scared to death that she would reject him, going into the last date he must have felt will she ever be ready for him. She got to know him first to see if she would fit in him with her. She was true to herself and most importantly tell him when it felt right for her. He will be PUTTY in her hands now, she will rule that roast because he will treasure her always, because he fought for her. He will forever be most vulnerable to her always and that is the way it should be.


    HAYLEY she told him she WAS falling in love with him on the fantasy date but last night she told him she HAS found herself totally and completely falling in love with him,to her it was UNEXPECTED then she said I AM IN LOVE WITH YOU
    Last edited by bugsme3; 05-22-2007 at 09:04 AM.

  9. #539
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    Re: 5/21 Show Discussion Thread. .. Sleuther Style!

    Quote Originally Posted by MissThing;2411693;
    (On that note, I found it striking that Bevin referred to Tessa as 'another woman', but never by name. Tessa, on the other hand, used Bevin's name. Just something about that was telling to me.)
    .
    Good point.

    To me, that reflects what was going on with these two all along. Bevin fell or decided to fall (both, I think, really) for Andy right off the bat, had all these strong feelings, and is feeling so deeply motivated to get herself into a permanent relationship right now that the other women weren't quite real or visible to her, in my opinion. They're all just "other women" to her, in that state. Whether this is a personality trait she always shows or whether it's just because she *was* so fixated in this case, I think Bevin showed us a person who was very driven and very fixed on one goal -- Andy -- and so he was the only real thing in her field of vision.

    But we saw Tessa early on seriously wanting to pull out of the process, in large part because she felt only confusion and some beginning of attraction herself, while other women she spoke with and knew, especially Bevin and Amber, were utterly smitten right away. We saw repeately in the early episodes that Tessa was toying with stepping out of the way in order to give these women space to get something that they so clearly wanted. They were very real to her, and I think that says that she's a person who kind of takes in the whole landscape, is aware of all the people around her, and isn't a hugely single-goal-driven person. Not just Andy but the whole world of the show and the other women in it were real to Tessa because that's the way she is, so, to her, part of her landscape at the end was Bevin, another real person whom she knew, and so she would always use her name.

    I'm probably not making any sense. But this difference was striking to me too, and it seemed to say quite a lot about the different kinds of personalities and brains these two have.

  10. #540
    FORT Fogey bevorules's Avatar
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    Re: 5/21 Show Discussion Thread. .. Sleuther Style!

    Am I the only one who watched his "I love You" with Bevin and knew in his own way he was saying a goodbye to her. What he was really saying and I caught it was "I love you but..." whereas with Tessa he was giddy and happy when he said "I love you" and he said it multiple times. The thing about this show is if you are a "bulldozer" with you feelings on your sleeve (Bevin) you aren't paying attention to his body language to clue you in that it is not you. With Tessa, she may have regretted her earlier hesitancy, but it came in her favor as she was able to "read her putt" so to speak and assess by reading Andy's body language to know that she could trust him with her heart and open up to him. Kelly Jo in a previous season said something that was true of Bevin last night. She said Bob didn't lead her on, but she led herself on by projecting her feelings on him. His "I love you" was not an I'm in love with you and he was definitely holding himself back. Bevin didn't catch it and more telling in her interview part she was definitely projecting using we feel instead of I feel without really knowing if Andy felt the same. Was it sad for Bevin, of course and that is the hard part of this show. I feel like they should have him pull her aside at some point before FRC to tell her so that she isn't crushed in front of America and doesn't get her hopes so up to get shot down. But that is on Fleiss not Andy. I thought it was cute last night when Tessa revealed to Andy that she knew it was her because "no but" came out in his speach and w/body language clues she knew he was building to a proposal.

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