5/21 Show Discussion Thread. .. Sleuther Style!

[KareyR2]

[QUOTE=[I[B]]MadisonL[/B];2411568;]I watched the finale tonight with my dad, who had only seen the F4 RC - and picked his favorites as Tessa, Danielle, and Bevin in that order. (This is why I'm such a Daddy's girl, I suppose! ) Anyway, I made him give me his 'middle-age' and male view on what was going on, and he said: Andy is so in love with Tessa that she shouldn't have any doubt in her mind that he'll choose her. Bevin is aggressive and passionate and that makes him feel great now, but I don't think he truly wants that in a long-term marriage.

I watched the episode on the West Coast having read the East Coast spoilers line by line. I admit that I was horrified by Andy's declaration of love to Bevin, partially because I wanted him soooo badly to choose Tessa, but also because I felt that he was cheapening his proposal by declaring this all around. And yet, when I watched everything unfold, it was all kind of...tame? I have to say that Andy sounded a bit tipsy when he was talking to Bevin - he was slurry his words, he looked sleepy, and he was being more squinty-eyed and touchy-feely than usual. Andy seems like he could handle a few drinks, but I really don't think he was 'all there' mentally...I don't know if this was a conscious decision on his part, or if I'm just going crazy. Nevertheless, when he finally did whisper the 'I love you, Bev', it sounded bittersweet.

I feel like I should be outraged that he said this to Bevin less than two days before his proposal to Tessa, but I cried during the non-RC. I think Andy did love Bevin - he loved her passion, her drive from the beginning, her heart on her sleeve...in a sense, everything that was missing from his relationship with Tessa. I think it did break his heart to have to turn her down, not because she was the 'right choice' for him, but because he knew all along how emotionally invested she was and how crushed she would be. I hope Bevin is able to surmount the feeling of "Why does this always happen to me???" and instead look at love with a new, fresh perspective - and of course, I do hope she finds her true love.

NOW, the happier topic. For all the build-up of this season...as soon as Andy read the note, I knew he was a goner. This was what he had been waiting for for soooo long - this was why he wooed her, chased her, courted her, dazzled her, and pleaded with her to stay - for those very special words: "I am in love with you." And as frustrated as I became at times by Tessa's reluctance, I can't complain any longer, because it's true - when she said those words, you could hear in her voice and see in her eyes that she meant it. And you could hear the little hitch of hope and joy in Andy's voice when he read the line about Tessa not wanting to go back to the way her life was before she met him.

He stares at Tessa whenever he's around her, he always touches her in one way or another, he gets this goofy grin on his face whenever she talks about how happy she is to be with him, his face lights up when she laughs, and there is truly something sweeter about his demeanor when he's around her. I think that Andy was truly surprised to feel so vulnerable - after all, he was THE bachelor and the women were supposed to be fawning over him. Yet, here was a woman who had completely captured his heart, and he couldn't let that go. By the end, it wasn't even the thrill of the chase...there was just something magical about their relationship, and I think it changed him.

Yes, I do see Andy as a very confident (and probably egocentric) self-made man, but I believe that Tessa is very much his equal. I think he's proud to have her as his fiancee/wife, and I honestly believe that he'd consider himself to be the luckier one of the two. That, in a sense, validates this entire season for me - that was the love story I've been wanting to see for so long. That was why I was squealing for joy the second Tessa stepped out of the limo (by Dad thought I'd gone insane), that was why I was waiting for the realization to strike Tessa, that was why I wanted to sun to shine through the clouds...

Um, okay, I'm done. Sleep sounds like a good idea. Now I am actually excited to see tomorrow's show, because I hope that Bevin has been able to pick herself up and look forward - and of course I want to see Andy and Tessa glowing.

P.S. How much did TPTB strike gold with Tessa and Andy's storyline? To have Tessa be so doubtful in the beginning, have Andy chase her, have Tessa wait until the last second to tell him her feelings, have Andy be waiting for those words, and to have Tessa regret having wasted all that time in the beginning. Well, if she hadn't, Fleiss would have had NO chance concealing the love story...they might as well have performed the FRC in Tahoe. [/[/I]QUOTE]

WOW Madison
What a beautiful tribute here, and you summed up so much of what I was feeling and thinking. Thank you. So great that you watched it with your Dad...I actually had a friend come over who had never seen TB before, and so it was interesting to get her perspective. She stated from the getgo, it couldn't be anyone but Tessa, and for her the bottomline was that Andy and Tessa had "fun" together, and for my friend that was key. She also commented how he looked and acted so differently around Tessa. And I felt bad for Bevin, but I think from the beginning, she was a consolation prize...that if Tessa did not come through with her feelings. And Tessa came through with bells on!

My favourite parts of tonight, where when Tessa commented on "what a cute butt. Not you Andy, the horse." And I cried when Andy read out Tessa's note, and she finally declared her love for him. It was so emotional. My friend commented on how genuine she is, how honest she was then, and Andy was putty in her hands. We also both loved when he opened the gift, and how much it meant to him. He seemed in awe and marvelled at the time, thought and work put into it. He was more than touched by her thoughtful gesture. And I loved hearing him mentioning what was on it, like astronaut etc...obviously many conversations they had had, but we were never privy to. I cried during that sequence and so did my friend. Loved "I freaking love you. I freaking love you Tessa!" I also noticed when he picked out the engagement ring the woman said something about the ring being simple and elegant, or some such wording...and he commented it was perfect...and I knew he was thinking of Tessa when she said it,

I wish the proposal would have been longer, much more time spent on Andy and Tessa, and much less focus and time spent on Bevin. We never saw the song, the dogtags etc etc...I wish Andy would have stated that he loved Tessa more during the proposal and would have gone into more detail of why he loves her and made it more of a tribute to their love. I could rage on for 5 minutes about the qualities Tessa has that I love about her. **sigh**, so not enough time spent on that for me. Loved the sunset in the background, the spinning her around, and Tessa's shocked expression, and I am thrilled for Andy and Tessa. They are perfect together. But I have got to comment, that if I was Tessa, and saw what Andy did and said to and about Bevin...I'd be a bit choked right now...and Andy would have some major grovelling to do. Thanks again
Karey....loving the hammock

[KareyR2]

[QUOTE=[I[B]]MadisonL[/B];2411568;]I watched the finale tonight with my dad, who had only seen the F4 RC - and picked his favorites as Tessa, Danielle, and Bevin in that order. (This is why I'm such a Daddy's girl, I suppose! ) Anyway, I made him give me his 'middle-age' and male view on what was going on, and he said: Andy is so in love with Tessa that she shouldn't have any doubt in her mind that he'll choose her. Bevin is aggressive and passionate and that makes him feel great now, but I don't think he truly wants that in a long-term marriage.

I watched the episode on the West Coast having read the East Coast spoilers line by line. I admit that I was horrified by Andy's declaration of love to Bevin, partially because I wanted him soooo badly to choose Tessa, but also because I felt that he was cheapening his proposal by declaring this all around. And yet, when I watched everything unfold, it was all kind of...tame? I have to say that Andy sounded a bit tipsy when he was talking to Bevin - he was slurry his words, he looked sleepy, and he was being more squinty-eyed and touchy-feely than usual. Andy seems like he could handle a few drinks, but I really don't think he was 'all there' mentally...I don't know if this was a conscious decision on his part, or if I'm just going crazy. Nevertheless, when he finally did whisper the 'I love you, Bev', it sounded bittersweet.

I feel like I should be outraged that he said this to Bevin less than two days before his proposal to Tessa, but I cried during the non-RC. I think Andy did love Bevin - he loved her passion, her drive from the beginning, her heart on her sleeve...in a sense, everything that was missing from his relationship with Tessa. I think it did break his heart to have to turn her down, not because she was the 'right choice' for him, but because he knew all along how emotionally invested she was and how crushed she would be. I hope Bevin is able to surmount the feeling of "Why does this always happen to me???" and instead look at love with a new, fresh perspective - and of course, I do hope she finds her true love.

NOW, the happier topic. For all the build-up of this season...as soon as Andy read the note, I knew he was a goner. This was what he had been waiting for for soooo long - this was why he wooed her, chased her, courted her, dazzled her, and pleaded with her to stay - for those very special words: "I am in love with you." And as frustrated as I became at times by Tessa's reluctance, I can't complain any longer, because it's true - when she said those words, you could hear in her voice and see in her eyes that she meant it. And you could hear the little hitch of hope and joy in Andy's voice when he read the line about Tessa not wanting to go back to the way her life was before she met him.

He stares at Tessa whenever he's around her, he always touches her in one way or another, he gets this goofy grin on his face whenever she talks about how happy she is to be with him, his face lights up when she laughs, and there is truly something sweeter about his demeanor when he's around her. I think that Andy was truly surprised to feel so vulnerable - after all, he was THE bachelor and the women were supposed to be fawning over him. Yet, here was a woman who had completely captured his heart, and he couldn't let that go. By the end, it wasn't even the thrill of the chase...there was just something magical about their relationship, and I think it changed him.

Yes, I do see Andy as a very confident (and probably egocentric) self-made man, but I believe that Tessa is very much his equal. I think he's proud to have her as his fiancee/wife, and I honestly believe that he'd consider himself to be the luckier one of the two. That, in a sense, validates this entire season for me - that was the love story I've been wanting to see for so long. That was why I was squealing for joy the second Tessa stepped out of the limo (by Dad thought I'd gone insane), that was why I was waiting for the realization to strike Tessa, that was why I wanted to sun to shine through the clouds...

Um, okay, I'm done. Sleep sounds like a good idea. Now I am actually excited to see tomorrow's show, because I hope that Bevin has been able to pick herself up and look forward - and of course I want to see Andy and Tessa glowing.

P.S. How much did TPTB strike gold with Tessa and Andy's storyline? To have Tessa be so doubtful in the beginning, have Andy chase her, have Tessa wait until the last second to tell him her feelings, have Andy be waiting for those words, and to have Tessa regret having wasted all that time in the beginning. Well, if she hadn't, Fleiss would have had NO chance concealing the love story...they might as well have performed the FRC in Tahoe. [/QUOTE][/I]
WOW Madison
What a beautiful tribute here, and you summed up so much of what I was feeling and thinking. Thank you. So great that you watched it with your Dad...I actually had a friend come over who had never seen TB before, and so it was interesting to get her perspective. She stated from the getgo, it couldn't be anyone but Tessa, and for her the bottomline was that Andy and Tessa had "fun" together, and for my friend that was key. She also commented how he looked and acted so differently around Tessa. And I felt bad for Bevin, but I think from the beginning, she was a consolation prize...that if Tessa did not come through with her feelings. And Tessa came through with bells on!

My favourite parts of tonight, where when Tessa commented on "what a cute butt. Not you Andy, the horse." And I cried when Andy read out Tessa's note, and she finally declared her love for him. It was so emotional. My friend commented on how genuine she is, how honest she was then, and Andy was putty in her hands. We also both loved when he opened the gift, and how much it meant to him. He seemed in awe and marvelled at the time, thought and work put into it. He was more than touched by her thoughtful gesture. And I loved hearing him mentioning what was on it, like astronaut etc...obviously many conversations they had had, but we were never privy to. I cried during that sequence and so did my friend. Loved "I freaking love you. I freaking love you Tessa!" I also noticed when he picked out the engagement ring the woman said something about the ring being simple and elegant, or some such wording...and he commented it was perfect...and I knew he was thinking of Tessa when she said it,

I wish the proposal would have been longer, much more time spent on Andy and Tessa, and much less focus and time spent on Bevin. We never saw the song, the dogtags etc etc...I wish Andy would have stated that he loved Tessa more during the proposal and would have gone into more detail of why he loves her and made it more of a tribute to their love. I could rage on for 5 minutes about the qualities Tessa has that I love about her. **sigh**, so not enough time spent on that for me. Loved the sunset in the background, the spinning her around, and Tessa's shocked expression, and I am thrilled for Andy and Tessa. They are perfect together. But I have got to comment, that if I was Tessa, and saw what Andy did and said to and about Bevin...I'd be a bit choked right now...and Andy would have some major grovelling to do. Thanks again
Karey....loving the hammock

[KareyR2]

Oops...sorry for the double post there everyone. I was trying to put Madison's incredible post in italics, so it would be separate from mine, and I can still not figure out how to quote someone properly here, so that it stands out from my words. Wouldn't want to get any credit for beautiful thoughts and words that were actually spoken by Madison. Thanks
Karey

[MissThing]

MadisonL, i totally agree with your comments about andy being tipsy. the man seemed just downright drunk in a lot of that sequence...."i gave YOU a watch!" hahaha.

i personally feel that his declaration of love for bevin (if you can call it that) was the type of alcohol and lust induced, in-the-moment response that he might have tried to modify or clarify if he had had his wits about him (...instead of something else...)

I see this another way, altogether. When he walked away from the camera during his PI discussing his feelings for Bevin, I found it entirely heartfelt.

I'm not going to apologize for having been in the hammock for a very long time, but I do think that Andy had genuine feelings of love for Bevin. Just not the type of love that leads to an on-going romantic relationship.

When I remember the atmosphere these people are in for six weeks, they are almost suffering from sensory deprivation. They are literally brain-washed into thinking about nothing but the process, and each other. In a way, it would be bordering on the unnatural not to develop deep feelings for everyone else involved, by the end. (On that note, I found it striking that Bevin referred to Tessa as 'another woman', but never by name. Tessa, on the other hand, used Bevin's name. Just something about that was telling to me.)

I love a lot of things. I love my friends, and many of them are men. But that doesn't mean I want to spend the rest of my life washing their dirty underwear .

[KareyR2]

Did you catch that Tessa included "astronaut" in the collage that she gave to Andy. I don't recall hearing them talk about this. Just remember Andy telling Bevin that he wanted to be an astronaut. I think Tessa and Andy had a lot of conversations that we never heard.

Hi there
I noticed as well that Tessa included "astonaut" in the collage, as well she mentioned the air and space museum. I would have loved to have heard their conversations about their dreams for the future. We were jipped out of a lot of conversations with these two. We never once heard them speak of how important babies and children, family were to them either!! I would have loved to have heard conversations about such things with them. I really love Andy and Tessa, and I think they make a perfect couple, and pray they are blessed with healthy, happy children, and a loving, fulfilling marriage someday, and the family Andy, and I assume Tessa have always dreamed of. I love this couple!!! Thanks
Karey

[stickle]

i personally feel that his declaration of love for bevin (if you can call it that) was the type of alcohol and lust induced, in-the-moment response that he might have tried to modify or clarify if he had had his wits about him (...instead of something else...)

I'm still not convinced Andy made a declaration of love for Bevin. We only saw the back of his head while it was buried in Bevin's hair and it was captioned on the screen, not particularly audible. I can't get past the idea that it was one last evil Fleissian edit. Maybe Fleiss so wanted to include Andy's too cute poking at Tessa "I'm so freakin in love" that he also had to add an 'I love you' to Bevin in as well to keep up the suspense.

For all the build-up of this season...as soon as Andy read the note, I knew he was a goner. This was what he had been waiting for for soooo long - this was why he wooed her, chased her, courted her, dazzled her, and pleaded with her to stay - for those very special words: "I am in love with you." And as frustrated as I became at times by Tessa's reluctance, I can't complain any longer, because it's true - when she said those words, you could hear in her voice and see in her eyes that she meant it. And you could hear the little hitch of hope and joy in Andy's voice when he read the line about Tessa not wanting to go back to the way her life was before she met him.

That's when my tears started. That particular scene was so imbued with such genuine emotion. I think that's the first time Tessa actually forgot about the cameras and soundmen and allowed herself to actually reveal all her feelings to Andy. It almost felt like I could see that weight around Andy's heart release its grip and fly away never for him to worry about Tessa again. I shed a tear for Bevin (not too many because I really couldn't get over my distaste for her but you could really tell she was hurt and I'm not that hard hearted) and then the tears of happiness over the proposal really flowed.

I'm with whomever it was upthread that said they were p.o.'d that Fleiss, right to the bitter end, went on too long with the drama instead of allowing us to share in Andy and Tessa's elation for longer. But in the big picture, I'm so happy it turned out as it should have that I can't be too upset. I have a feeling that tonight's night's show will give us all the warm fuzzies we didn't get last night. I remember Mer and Ian's ATFR and how warm and engaging and totally in love they were and it dispelled the whole picture Fleiss had painted of Ian being the reluctant fiance. Ian pulled out the ring and proposed all over again and it was terribly moving. I can see Andy doing something like that and Tessa being very open about her love and being very excited to wear his ring proudly.

[KareyR2]

Yep--I want dogtags, I want dorky song, I want giddiness, I want about 25 "likes" and "amazings," and I don't want--sorry Bevin fans, no irreverence intended, but I don't want--Bevin to take center stage like she did in Tahoe. I want to know she's doing well and then I want to move on to Tessa and Andy! And I want to know if they're going to wait 5 years to start having those beautiful babies.

Hi bamabrain
I am with you. I want everything we missed from the proposal last night, and I DON'T want Bevin to be centre stage at the ATFR! I feel like we were already cheated out of a lot of the proposal, due to the time spent on Bevin. I need and want to see the ATFR be dedicated to Andy and Tessa. No disrespect to the Bevin fans either, but this should be about Andy and Tessa and their love. Give Bevin a chance for some closure, then lets move it on quickly to Andy and Tessa, and focus on them. We were just cheated out of so many of their conversations, and their love story, and I want them to be centre stage. I wonder how Tessa is doing after having viewed this episode...I pray everything is alright with them. I just love, love, love Andy and Tessa, and think they will make the most wonderful family.
Karey

[KareyR2]

ICAM. He was just giddy when Tessa told him how he felt. His eyes opened with shock when he read the line in her note about not wanting to go back to her life the way it was before she met him and he repeated it out loud. You could tell that hit him where he lived. It was really sweet.

However, I did feel bad for Bevin, because I think he loved her, just not in the same way he loves Tessa. I don't think he meant to lead her on, and I think his tears at the not-RC were proof of that. I felt horrible for both of them. It was nice to see Bevin be so classy, although she should probably get some therapy to figure out why this pattern seems to repeat itself in her romantic relationships.

Moving on . . . it was easy to see why the producers wanted the sunset to be the star of the proposal scene. It was every bit as brilliant and gorgeous as Chris Harrison promised.

I thought my face was going to crack from smiling during the proposal. It was so nice to finally see All of the Fless manipulation end and just watch Andy finally get to be completely honest about his feelings for Tessa. The moment that killed me was when he said that what was so special about the day was the fact that it was just the two of them, and she asked him if he meant it. Hee! Gee, what gave it away, Tessa, his huge ass grin or all the smooches?

They are too cute, and I love them. Despite this show's poor track record, which tells me I should know better, I hope they get married and have a little navy armada of children.

Hey Archer
Have I ever told you how much I enjoy your posts. I am with you. I think I should know better as well, but I just can't wait to hear Andy and Tessa have set a date, gotten married and most especially are having that little navy armada of children! ICAM!! I just think they will have the most beautiful babies and feel they will make an *amazing* family. Andy and Tessa will just make the most loving parents. I know...I am giddy. I adore these two together, and am excited for their future. Thanks again
Karey

[Secret]

NOW, the happier topic. For all the build-up of this season...as soon as Andy read the note, I knew he was a goner. This was what he had been waiting for for soooo long - this was why he wooed her, chased her, courted her, dazzled her, and pleaded with her to stay - for those very special words: "I am in love with you." And as frustrated as I became at times by Tessa's reluctance, I can't complain any longer, because it's true - when she said those words, you could hear in her voice and see in her eyes that she meant it. And you could hear the little hitch of hope and joy in Andy's voice when he read the line about Tessa not wanting to go back to the way her life was before she met him.

He stares at Tessa whenever he's around her, he always touches her in one way or another, he gets this goofy grin on his face whenever she talks about how happy she is to be with him, his face lights up when she laughs, and there is truly something sweeter about his demeanor when he's around her. I think that Andy was truly surprised to feel so vulnerable - after all, he was THE bachelor and the women were supposed to be fawning over him. Yet, here was a woman who had completely captured his heart, and he couldn't let that go. By the end, it wasn't even the thrill of the chase...there was just something magical about their relationship, and I think it changed him.

Yes, I do see Andy as a very confident (and probably egocentric) self-made man, but I believe that Tessa is very much his equal. I think he's proud to have her as his fiancee/wife, and I honestly believe that he'd consider himself to be the luckier one of the two. That, in a sense, validates this entire season for me - that was the love story I've been wanting to see for so long. That was why I was squealing for joy the second Tessa stepped out of the limo (by Dad thought I'd gone insane), that was why I was waiting for the realization to strike Tessa, that was why I wanted to sun to shine through the clouds...

Um, okay, I'm done. Sleep sounds like a good idea. Now I am actually excited to see tomorrow's show, because I hope that Bevin has been able to pick herself up and look forward - and of course I want to see Andy and Tessa glowing.

P.S. How much did TPTB strike gold with Tessa and Andy's storyline? To have Tessa be so doubtful in the beginning, have Andy chase her, have Tessa wait until the last second to tell him her feelings, have Andy be waiting for those words, and to have Tessa regret having wasted all that time in the beginning. Well, if she hadn't, Fleiss would have had NO chance concealing the love story...they might as well have performed the FRC in Tahoe.

Great post, MadisonL! It's good to read this after how conflicted I felt the first time I watched the show last night - and then how much better I felt when I fast-forwarded through the Bevin scenes. (Don't worry, I've been doing that upon re-watch since Tahoe).

All season, well definitely since the Cinderella date, to borrow a term others have used 'it was Tessa's to lose.' He was just SO different around her. I guess 'smitten' or 'awe-struck' are probably pretty accurate. But, I was really really worried that she would never just completely let go and let herself be in the moment with Andy and not worry about the 'what ifs'.

I agree, that after he read her note and saw the present (even if I hadn't shouted A-HA. It's Tessa!!! after the first preview when I saw the near complete lack of sunset with Bevin @ FRC) - it was a foregone conclusion. HOWEVER, having said that I DO think he was very upset at letting Bevin go at the FRC which is why he fumbled that soooooo badly. Someone else on another message board quoted one of his lines as "there's a fine line between love.. and love". Uhhh... 'kay? Someone off camera should have provided something more like "I love you, but I'm IN love with someone else..".

Oh well, I just think they're adorable and fabulous and well-matched and I think the show 'machine' must be feeling very proud of themselves since they basically acted as 'matchmakers' this time around with two people who were initially very skeptical of 'the process.' I can see why there would be crying and cheering in the control room... probably once she said yes!

While I know this next comment is one reason why quite a few people could NOT see Tessa and Andy together at the end, I think the fact that she went from wanting to RUN in the opposite direction to grabbing Andy with both hands and 'jumping off that ledge' makes this one of the more special seasons, for me. Why? Because I saw it happen! The progression was subtle to most, but it was sooo there.

I cannot wait for tonight's show.

[KareyR2]

Rant Warning:

This is the flip side of what those who were Fleisserized by the edit into thinking that Bevin was F1 must feel. Please hear me out. But as a Tessa and Andy fan, and one who thought that Tessa was F1 from early on, I was Fleisserized too.

I'm POed that TPTB devoted more time to Bevin's farewell than to Tessa's hello, frankly. I'm stunned. I never thought that what Andy and Bevin had was genuine, and now I believe. HOWEVER, I think Tessa and Andy are a much better fit, and are truly in love, and I'm POed to high heaven that Fleiss let the farewell take center stage to the point that the FRC seemed tacked on at the end, even with the SPECTACULAR sunset. Now I know why there's an ATFR. I would be personally knocking on Fleiss's door if there weren't one scheduled.

Hi bama again. I am reading these posts backwards, which I probably shouldn't be doing. ICAM with what you said here. While I loved the proposal, I did feel the focus of almost the entire series was on Bevin, let alone the FRC. Andy and Tessa's proposal seemed like an add on, an after thought, whereas it deserved to be, and should have been centre stage. That is how it seemed to me. So much more time and attention should have been focussed on Andy and Tessa's love story, and less on the farewell to Bevin. JMHO. This saddened me, and I feel a bit cheated that we got to a proposal with not one real conversation of Andy and Tessa's future, and their wishes for family and children. What their hopes and dreams together were/are. We never saw the dogtags given out, and I think that would have been special and meant a lot, it is not a small thing, but we were cheated out of it...we were cheated out of the song. I can only pray that Andy and Tessa's love story is the focus of the ATFR, and we get some of what was stolen from us of their love story then. Thanks
Karey