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Thread: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

  1. #4201
    FORT Fogey sueb1961's Avatar
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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Yes, cbs did such a better job with Amber and Rob than abc did with Trista and Ryan. I hope Tessa/Andy know better than to have a tv wedding, especially if Fleiss is going to play his games with it.

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    FORT Fanatic toni's Avatar
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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Sorry for the off topic conversation. It would have been nice if Fleiss included more "fun" moments with Andy and Tessa instead of all of the serious talk that took place. I would have loved to see the "snow angels" moments and now i'm wondering if that took place before or after the serious talk.
    Last edited by toni; 06-06-2007 at 05:07 PM.
    What's the Great Conjunction? You tell me!

  3. #4203
    FORT Fogey sueb1961's Avatar
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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Yeah, I think I would have enjoyed that much better. I always thought the doubt edit was so boring. I wish he would come up with some more creative editing.

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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    I would still like an explanation on why Andy always asked Tessa (well, from Tahoe on, I think) if she would "please" accept this rose. Was that some hidden communication Fleiss allowed them, or something Fleiss asked Andy to throw in to keep us confused?

  5. #4205
    Leaning Forward cantstopwatchin's Avatar
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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by bamabrain;2429418;
    Although the Bach 11 contract stipulations regarding editing latitude are, I agree, troublesome--because these are real people TPTB have the right to humiliate--the fact that this was a Fleiss production was perhaps a significant bonding aspect of Tessa's and Andy's relationship. I'm not suggesting that Andy's and Tessa's relationship wasn't/isn't real, but rather that it was maybe more real because they together seemed more self-consciously aware of the fact that The Bachelor is a formulaic tv show--to the point that T&A de-constructed it on Fleiss's own cameras. I think that's one reason this has been my favorite season of the show.

    I'm still mulling over those darned bootleg videos. The main reason, fandango, is that those vids created multiple narrative levels we could view, as did SpoilerBob’s photos of the Tahoe filming. We always knew the Wizard-of-Oz curtain was there, but for the first time to my Bach-knowledge, we had visual proof. I daresay Bevin’s videos show a bit of naïveté on Bevin's part. She is filming even when they are ostensibly off-camera--to perhaps prove that the Fleiss-hyped romance was real. Or maybe just the opposite--she is remarkably savvy and was recording for future leverage against Fleiss? (I don’t believe for a minute that her computer was hacked.)

    It's impossible to know whether Tessa and Andy would’ve been as boring as Bevin and Andy clearly were in the bootleg videos. (I can’t say "off-camera" because there was still an additional overlay of “production” in the videos even though they were filmed by a participant rather than a film crew. Somehow, I can’t see Tessa having further documented their dates, given her aversion to cameras.) Indeed, there was some spoiler information posted on another board about TPTB asking Tessa and Andy during the Cinderella date to “heighten” (or, my preferred verb, “fleissen”) their romantic talk. But my point here is not to debate which woman—Bevin or Tessa—shared the great cinematic romantic “love of his life” experience with Andy. My point is that we have tons of evidence that one of the women—Tessa—attempted to strip away the Fleiss trappings. To a degree, Fleiss gave her license.

    Contrast the “sanctuary” elevator scene between Andy and Bevin with the snow slopes get-away between Tessa and Andy. Both in Tahoe, the elevator scene (filmed) and the snow slopes interlude (unfilmed) are important to the narrative. Perhaps the elevator scene was Andy’s (albeit drunken) attempt to get Bevin to deconstruct the fantasy. I’m sure he’s spoofing the spa ad on the wall, as we’ve discussed before. But Bevin tries to turn that into reality. “That’s actually really romantic,” she says, in reference to his line, taken from the ad (how meta-cinematic can you get?) that she’s his sanctuary. Although we’ll never know what happened when Andy and Tessa got lost skiing, it’s really telling, I think, that that important bonding experience occurred off-camera (with Tessa as his sanctuary, I might add) and yet probably included some meta-conversation about what was going on on-camera.

    That important de-constructive layer (important, I should say with the caveat that it was important this season with a bachelor with a presumably high IQ; I hope we’ll get that lucky as viewers again) was not apparent in Andy’s relationship with Bevin but was one of the integral aspects of his relationship with Tessa.

    Take the fantasy date, for example. There’s the scene where Andy—and it seems to me from his facial expressions that it’s in mock-seriousness—presents Tessa with the fantasy suite invitation and she says, “I don’t know,” and we cut to a commercial. I really think that was pure spoof on Tessa's and Andy’s part. But they were in complicity. Although I do think that Andy and Tessa had an “amazing connection” to the point that they often finish each other’s sentences, the element I’m talking about is an awareness of the production and editorial aspects of the show. There are many instances when Tessa seems to already know what’s going to be said or what’s going to happen next—Andy’s explanation about happy hour when they’re on the mountain at sunset is a good example—that suggest to me that the crew may have brought Tessa more into the inner workings of the show—the Fleiss formula, so to speak. That, combined with Tessa’s hyperawareness of the cameras (again, I’m particularly referencing several scenes during the fantasy date when it’s clear that she’s self-conscious of the cameras) may have been one of the magic bullets for their relationship.

    Both Tessa and Andy have commented in recent interviews that they relied heavily on each other while they were in the bubble of filming the tv season. In multiple ironies, what we fault Fleiss most for—his fabrication of romance—may have actually backfired this season into Fleiss’s best, truest most goofballiest romantic comedy. Andy got the girl. The girl got to question and even critique reality tv. And Fleiss got his ratings back.
    W-O-W!!! I'm in awe of this truly eloquent and for-lack-of-a-better-word, "AMAZING" post!!!!!

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    Premium Member pajamasam's Avatar
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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    She's good isnt she? I'm glad you read it and brought it forward.

  7. #4207
    Leaning Forward cantstopwatchin's Avatar
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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by 59hawaii;2431523;
    I couldn't agree with you more, Di24. I, too, pegged Tessa that first night after listening to the Inca Trail story and watching the expressions on both their faces. Because it was so early in the process, neither one of them had their guard up and their faces showed their true emotions ... just sheer incredulous joy at finding someone who struck a nerve in each other. And I, too, struggled with the same obstacle week after week ... it can't be Tessa because it's too obvious ... and, as we got to know her better, it can't be Tessa because she's too good of a match for Andy. The master sleuthers' support for Bevin and their outstanding success rate could not be ignored, but, ultimately, no one other than Tessa made any sense to me.
    Add me to this list! You could just *see* the lightning striking the two of them on the balcony! I admit, there was always that little ounce of doubt that wouldn't seem to go away b/c I figured, like you mentioned before, that it *couldn't* be that easy for us to see people struck by Cupid's arrows... could it?

    That's why I thank my lucky stars that I found this site. If I hadn't seen the post where someone drew the arrows of where the sun would set in relation to where the girls were standing, I think I would've had an ulcer by the time of the finale!

  8. #4208
    Leaning Forward cantstopwatchin's Avatar
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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by 59hawaii;2431526;
    The likelihood of a televised wedding has been on my mind lately ever since the Competitor Radio interview aired. After listening to that interview, I realized how unmaterialistic both Tessa and Andy are, yet they are realistic and pragmatic. They know that it takes money to be able to live out their dreams of being philanthropic ... yet they each have jobs that do not compensate them well enough to live out their dreams. Andy is using his newfound fame to promote his charities, as well as to seek more sponsors for his triathlon endeavours, but that will only last as long as public interest continues which can be fickle.

    Accepting a large nest egg from ABC for televising their wedding and investing it wisely will ensure that they can live out their lives holding true to their ideals ... having a large family, Tessa staying home to raise the kids, establishing an endowment fund to sponsor humanitarian activities, etc. I think the sensible pragmatic side of them may push them to seriously consider an offer. The fact that Andy was able to hold his own against Fleiss and not let himself be produced bodes well for a Fleiss-produced wedding. Andy will not be a push-over for his own wedding. I'm sure he's going to hold his ground (as long as he gets a good attorney to review his contract ). Fleiss knows he's got a cash cow in Tessa and Andy, so if they have demands, he's going to pay serious attention to them.
    I've been thinking the same thing. I would've placed a bet that Ryan would NEVER have agreed to a public wedding, but the large amount of $$ they were offered was worth it to them. I could see T & A definitely using a wedding for furthering their causes. Who knows, we might just see a lot of promos for the Navy, gatorade, etc. during the commercials.

  9. #4209
    Leaning Forward cantstopwatchin's Avatar
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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by toni;2431949;
    Sorry for the off topic conversation. It would have been nice if Fleiss included more "fun" moments with Andy and Tessa instead of all of the serious talk that took place. I would have loved to see the "snow angels" moments and now i'm wondering if that took place before or after the serious talk.
    You know, I've just got to believe that if ABC released the first season of the Bachelor (anyone remember Alex-lol!), they're gonna cash in on not only Andy and Tessa, but the renewed interest in Trista and Ryan.

  10. #4210
    Life is GOOD! Lifeisgood2's Avatar
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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by cantstopwatchin;2432071;
    Add me to this list! You could just *see* the lightning striking the two of them on the balcony! I admit, there was always that little ounce of doubt that wouldn't seem to go away b/c I figured, like you mentioned before, that it *couldn't* be that easy for us to see people struck by Cupid's arrows... could it?

    That's why I thank my lucky stars that I found this site. If I hadn't seen the post where someone drew the arrows of where the sun would set in relation to where the girls were standing, I think I would've had an ulcer by the time of the finale!
    Ok, I am totally new to this so I will give it a shot. I too knew that Tessa was the one from the beginning. But as you have all said it was just too obvious. Apparently it was obvious to a lot of the girls, Stephanie KS is quoted saying that she knows it will be Andy & Tessa, they just clicked and were right for each. Always giving Tessa certain looks. I have been so intrigued by this site I can't get enough. Something else I wanted to see if anyone else noticed on the fantasy dates that Tessa is really the only one who had a fantasy "suite", looks like Danielle just had a regular room and Bevin maybe had an "upgraded" regular room. Even the producers knew at that point that Tessa was the one and didn't want to fork over the dough for actual fantasy suites for F2 and F3.

    Also, would love to see all Andessa footage, come on ABC release it!

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