Thread: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Bama- My FBI brother-in-law has extended an official offer of employment based on your "Lost" spoilers, and your hyper-astute tendencies. (Bows in deference)
    Go Tigers!

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    FORT Fanatic blasie's Avatar
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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Would someone be so kind as to direct me to the entry which reveals Andy and Tessa escaping together during the Tahoe episode.

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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by blasie;2429858;
    Would someone be so kind as to direct me to the entry which reveals Andy and Tessa escaping together during the Tahoe episode.

    one sec blasie...just checking....

    ok...in the media thread, post #2095 is the transcript from their first conference call...andy talks about it there.....

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    Summer Break bamabrain's Avatar
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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    If I didn't have such a shady past , I'd love to work for the FBI.


    Quote Originally Posted by singintune114;2429812;
    I'm still very puzzled by Bevin's videos as well. I don't understand how she was allowed to record anything within full view of show staff, and if she didn't actually record the footage herself, how did she manage to get her hands on it? We'll probably never know, but I'm guessing the producers will be even more careful on future installments. By the way, since I'm such a latecomer to all the spoiler vids/pics, could someone possibly point me in the direction of SpoilerBob's photos?
    I still haven't answered definitively why she was allowed to shoot the videos, but shoot them Bevin did. We know this because (a) She's rather uninspiringly narrating them in the tone of someone holding the camera. As they pass the cows: "Do you eat beef, Andy? Do you eat beef, Crewperson X? Do you eat beef, Crewperson Y?" and (b) the vids are of amateur quality; when she inadvertently begins the kayak video with a shot of her foot, it's taken from the angle of a handheld camera or cellphone.

    If you search on SpoilerBob's posts in the Bachelor 10, Part 2 - Spoilers, Speculation & Screencaps ***SPOILERS*** thread, you'll find the photos. The particular one I was referring to is the "romantic" shot of Andy and Stephanie T and about 8 crew. (Post #523).

    I think Tessa and Andy did indeed have some crucial conversation off-camera at Tahoe. What we did see was the two of them sitting in the snow, discussing quite seriously the tension and atmosphere of the situation. Andy tells Tessa, "I really feel a connection with you...I hope you stick with it." From that point on I clearly felt that A/T were on a different level than everyone else.
    Many FORTers at the time that the Tahoe episode aired focused on the "electricity"/"sanctuary" Bevin story. But because, in the midst of that drama, Andy said that he felt most at ease with Tessa, I was pretty sure that in addition to the genuine sanctuary she probably offered him from the melodrama, TPTB must have edited something pretty important out (i.e., the "electricity" that prompted Andy to request a pretty hot Cinderella date) with Tessa. Again, I think Tahoe was the crucial episode where the Bevin-Andy edit peaked, with TPTB showing most of the Bevin-Andy love story (too soon for her to be F1) and where the Tessa-Andy love story was hidden and delayed (pacing-wise, just about the right editorial trajectory for Tessa as F1). At the time, SpoilerBob's crucial information overheard in the bar (Post #568 in the Bachelor 10, Part 2 - Spoilers, Speculation & Screencaps ***SPOILERS*** thread--Crew: "The stakes are high." Other women on the group date: "It doesn't matter; Tessa is going to win.") made us think that Tessa had won SQT because of some sort of skiing competition. Instead, she had won Andy's heart and they were sneaking off so that she could claim her prize.

    Andy has talked in interviews about the process and how he asked for changes or directly refused to do some things asked of him by the producers when he negotiated to do the show. The fact that Tessa struggled so much with the the process as well was a component unique to their relationship. They were on the same page.

    This is precisely why I believe there was never much, if any, "damage control" for Andy to do, despite what he has laughingly said in interviews. I think Tessa was well-versed in the machinations of the filming and editing.

    I highly doubt they will get so lucky again any time soon, unless Fleiss and co. really did learn a few lessons from this experience. Time will tell!
    Although early sleuthing information about the casting doesn't bode well for Season 11, who knows? Maybe Fleiss has wisened up and will recruit smarter bachelors (and I'm not just talking with higher IQs but with higher EQs (emotional smarts) as well). And maybe he will give the smarter bachelors more latitude if things seem to be going well. Then again, we may be in for a next season of mind-fluff and melodrama and I'll get my sustenance from snarking.
    Last edited by bamabrain; 06-04-2007 at 11:30 PM.

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    FORT Fan singintune114's Avatar
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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    bamabrain, thanks for the help!

    Quote Originally Posted by bamabrain;2430095;
    Then again, we may be in for a next season of mind-fluff and melodrama and I'll get my sustenance from snarking.
    As much as I would like to see another good bachelor, I'm rather excited at the thought of getting lots of bama snark!

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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Bama, I made a similar post yesterday on the Final Thoughts thread on the main Bachelor board #1109. While my main point was to support my theory that F1 knows they are F1 in the successful seasons, the evidence I used supports your theory that Andy and Tessa were given a lot of leeway.
    So, in support of your theory, I'll add that on Tessa's HT date they were allowed to leave her house together and talk more in a hotel room, which is not part of the normal "process". Also Andy was allowed to choose Tessa for the Cinderella date just as Byron chose Mary for the same date. Hopefully Fleiss has learned that he has to "go with the flow" when his bachelor is falling in love, and that's a good thing for us. If Fleiss stuck strictly to his process, we'd wouldn't have as many happy endings (not that we have many).

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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by singintune114;2430121;
    bamabrain, thanks for the help!
    As much as I would like to see another good bachelor, I'm rather excited at the thought of getting lots of bama snark!
    Glad to oblige, but Ms.Froggy is the queen of unmitigated, equal opportunity snarking. I like to mix it up a bit. Serious or snarky--depending on my mood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Housewren;2430137;
    the evidence I used supports your theory that Andy and Tessa were given a lot of leeway.
    Hopefully Fleiss has learned that he has to "go with the flow" when his bachelor is falling in love, and that's a good thing for us. If Fleiss stuck strictly to his process, we'd wouldn't have as many happy endings (not that we have many).
    When Chris Harrison's Fox interview aired the weekend before the FRC, I think it was, he said as much--almost outright. At the time, some FORTers were insistent that what Chris was saying applied only to the proposal--not to the whole process. But I really believe they were desperate this time for ratings and when they saw a good thing, TPTB encouraged it. Chris even said the outcome restored his faith a little bit. And if you want some good snark, Chris is Da Man.

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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by momsunshine;2429724;
    The skeptic in me wants to know if they planned the end in Tahoe. Maybe he said I will pick you because there isn't anyone else.............
    "Picking" in that case we have seen fake relationships, but Tessa and ANdy are engaged and just aren't the type of people that would FAKE a relationship as far as I've seen. WHY would they do such as thing? Sorry, I understand some people liked Bevin better, but Andy CLEARLY chose Tessa and they would have no reason to lie about being in love. Why would these two very earnest people do this? Imo, that would make NO sense. We've never seen a couple get engaged on the show who are faking it. Sorry, but Andy didn't choose Bevin, he chose Tessa. Some other lucky guy will get Bevin.

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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by girlsmom;2430353;
    "Picking" in that case we have seen fake relationships, but Tessa and ANdy are engaged and just aren't the type of people that would FAKE a relationship as far as I've seen. WHY would they do such as thing? Sorry, I understand some people liked Bevin better, but Andy CLEARLY chose Tessa and they would have no reason to lie about being in love. Why would these two very earnest people do this? Imo, that would make NO sense. We've never seen a couple get engaged on the show who are faking it. Sorry, but Andy didn't choose Bevin, he chose Tessa. Some other lucky guy will get Bevin.
    Well said! I can be skeptical myself (and naive at other times ) but I see NOTHING fake in their relationship. Long term, who knows? Engagements in the real world sometimes don't work out, so it's WAY TOO SOON to know if they'll actually get married, but in my wildest imagination I do not see this being a set-up of any kind. I think they're very happy and I actually believe Tessa will move to Hawaii and find out if they're really meant to be together. I wish them the best together and individually (as well as Bevin, who appears to have moved on nicely and will have a rich life herself).

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    Re: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by bamabrain;2429418;
    Although the Bach 11 contract stipulations regarding editing latitude are, I agree, troublesome--because these are real people TPTB have the right to humiliate--the fact that this was a Fleiss production was perhaps a significant bonding aspect of Tessa's and Andy's relationship. I'm not suggesting that Andy's and Tessa's relationship wasn't/isn't real, but rather that it was maybe more real because they together seemed more self-consciously aware of the fact that The Bachelor is a formulaic tv show--to the point that T&A de-constructed it on Fleiss's own cameras. I think that's one reason this has been my favorite season of the show.

    I'm still mulling over those darned bootleg videos. The main reason, fandango, is that those vids created multiple narrative levels we could view, as did SpoilerBob’s photos of the Tahoe filming. We always knew the Wizard-of-Oz curtain was there, but for the first time to my Bach-knowledge, we had visual proof. I daresay Bevin’s videos show a bit of naïveté on Bevin's part. She is filming even when they are ostensibly off-camera--to perhaps prove that the Fleiss-hyped romance was real. Or maybe just the opposite--she is remarkably savvy and was recording for future leverage against Fleiss? (I don’t believe for a minute that her computer was hacked.)

    It's impossible to know whether Tessa and Andy would’ve been as boring as Bevin and Andy clearly were in the bootleg videos. (I can’t say "off-camera" because there was still an additional overlay of “production” in the videos even though they were filmed by a participant rather than a film crew. Somehow, I can’t see Tessa having further documented their dates, given her aversion to cameras.) Indeed, there was some spoiler information posted on another board about TPTB asking Tessa and Andy during the Cinderella date to “heighten” (or, my preferred verb, “fleissen”) their romantic talk. But my point here is not to debate which woman—Bevin or Tessa—shared the great cinematic romantic “love of his life” experience with Andy. My point is that we have tons of evidence that one of the women—Tessa—attempted to strip away the Fleiss trappings. To a degree, Fleiss gave her license.

    Contrast the “sanctuary” elevator scene between Andy and Bevin with the snow slopes get-away between Tessa and Andy. Both in Tahoe, the elevator scene (filmed) and the snow slopes interlude (unfilmed) are important to the narrative. Perhaps the elevator scene was Andy’s (albeit drunken) attempt to get Bevin to deconstruct the fantasy. I’m sure he’s spoofing the spa ad on the wall, as we’ve discussed before. But Bevin tries to turn that into reality. “That’s actually really romantic,” she says, in reference to his line, taken from the ad (how meta-cinematic can you get?) that she’s his sanctuary. Although we’ll never know what happened when Andy and Tessa got lost skiing, it’s really telling, I think, that that important bonding experience occurred off-camera (with Tessa as his sanctuary, I might add) and yet probably included some meta-conversation about what was going on on-camera.

    That important de-constructive layer (important, I should say with the caveat that it was important this season with a bachelor with a presumably high IQ; I hope we’ll get that lucky as viewers again) was not apparent in Andy’s relationship with Bevin but was one of the integral aspects of his relationship with Tessa.

    Take the fantasy date, for example. There’s the scene where Andy—and it seems to me from his facial expressions that it’s in mock-seriousness—presents Tessa with the fantasy suite invitation and she says, “I don’t know,” and we cut to a commercial. I really think that was pure spoof on Tessa's and Andy’s part. But they were in complicity. Although I do think that Andy and Tessa had an “amazing connection” to the point that they often finish each other’s sentences, the element I’m talking about is an awareness of the production and editorial aspects of the show. There are many instances when Tessa seems to already know what’s going to be said or what’s going to happen next—Andy’s explanation about happy hour when they’re on the mountain at sunset is a good example—that suggest to me that the crew may have brought Tessa more into the inner workings of the show—the Fleiss formula, so to speak. That, combined with Tessa’s hyperawareness of the cameras (again, I’m particularly referencing several scenes during the fantasy date when it’s clear that she’s self-conscious of the cameras) may have been one of the magic bullets for their relationship.

    Both Tessa and Andy have commented in recent interviews that they relied heavily on each other while they were in the bubble of filming the tv season. In multiple ironies, what we fault Fleiss most for—his fabrication of romance—may have actually backfired this season into Fleiss’s best, truest most goofballiest romantic comedy. Andy got the girl. The girl got to question and even critique reality tv. And Fleiss got his ratings back.

    bamabrain you really know how to strip down TB and get at the guts of it!
    I loved reading your posts this season, and was just checking-out this thread ,when I came upon your "gem" of conclusions regarding how Andy and Tessa went about "being," on TB. I think a big part of what made this season my personal favorite was Andy and Tessa's inside track of deconstructing the "process."
    Thanks for the great recap.

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