Thread: Editing: Is Fleiss messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

  1. #1041
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    Re: Is Fleiss & Co. messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by Truewriter;2364786;
    Lol! My pleasure, talldede.

    I actually hope we get a televised wedding, too. Someone needs to explain to Andy and Tessa that Fleiss owes us bigtime.
    Agreed! All us long suffering Bachelor fans, who still believe in romance deserve a wedding!

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    Re: Is Fleiss & Co. messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by tabby cat;2364789;
    Originally Posted by Ms.Anthrope (330 under the Tessa thread)
    … She is actually an heiress, and her family is politically very well connected. I'm not talking about local congressman. I'm talking about 2 name brand high-profile politicians in the family! She went to top schools, but eventually chose to becomes a social worker. She was working with abused women before she quit after having kids. I always found her so interesting because she comes from such a prominent family with so much money.

    Re. the above post in the Tessa thread, does anyone actually know Tessa has her own money or will inherit lots of money; or, is this a really big assumption? (And, I’m confused about who had children; not Tessa I gather.)
    Sorry for the confusion. If you read my post again, I mention that Tessa's background is similar to my friend. I just read that Tessa's family is wealthy but I don't know how wealthy. My friend, not Tessa, is the one from an extraordinarily wealthy who decided to become a social worker. My friend is no longer working because she has kids. Hope this makes my earlier post clearer.

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    Re: Is Fleiss & Co. messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    I hope no one minds if I make a few remarks about editing in general before I get to the Cinderella date and its editing.

    First, there's no such thing as a one-camera shoot, at least not at the network level of standards. The cameras are on wheels, and so they can get different angles, but sometimes the editors honestly need to get past some boring conversation or when someone excuses him/herself to go to the loo. So, for show purposes, to keep the action going, they will use material that's been captured by the second camera. When they "roll tape," one camera is designated the "B" camera and the other the "A camera." Typically, the A camera gets the face shots, head on. While the A camera is doing that, the B camera is usually shooting the backs of the characters' heads, or 3/4 shots where you can see their mouths moving but not make out what words they are saying. What happens (and this is totally honest editing) when they want to make the scene flow (have you ever seen anyone excuse herself and leave the table to pee, no pun on "flow"?) they cut to pictures on the "B Roll" to splice in so that the conversation seems to be one smooth and sensible scene. There is absolutely no effort to trick the audience by using B roll. There just ARE truly boring parts or irrelevant parts to any dinner that would put us to sleep. So, that's why you might occasionally see the angle change while the conversation keeps going.

    That bit where Andy keeps looking over to his left while Tessa is saying really important stuff is from B roll -- he's looking for the waiter. You can actually SEE the edits here. Look for where the brown napkins are: when Tessa and Andy first start talking after they are seated at the garden restaurant, the napkins are on the plates, standing up straight; a bare second later, the napkins have disappeared (presumably into laps), but the next shot shows the napkins upright again. That was done merely to get an important talk out to us without us having to listen to a bunch of stuff about Andy ordering wine or the waiter interrupting to bring the bread plates (you'll see the many changes on the table during what appears to be ONE conversation but is not). You're seeing a mix of A and B rolls. The words may get to us out of the order they were spoken, but there really is no intention to fool us. The intention is to give us a good, tight scene without a bunch of wasted verbiage.

    What can complicate editing and our perceptions is something like the fact that Tessa owns and wears at least three different black dresses. So you might notice some talk stew if you look for earrings or other accessories. But, generally, if a scene is presented as happening at a particular restaurant, it IS. It's a bad and clumsy editor who should be fired who cannot find enough on the B roll to use between A roll shots. He or she should not need to go to a scene that took place on a completely different day just to knit together the shots he wants from the A roll. I'd sure fire such an editor, because that's really unscrupulous and untalented. I'm going to make a second post so this one won't be too long.

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    Re: Is Fleiss & Co. messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    That is interesting Forestpal!! I can't wait to read more. It's nice to have a inside view of production.

    I believe Fleiss purposfully puts in interviews from other times as long as they move the "story" he is putting together in the direction he wants to lead us.

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    Re: Is Fleiss & Co. messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by Ms.Anthrope;2363137;
    Warning! Long post


    The following “analysis” is from a couple of viewers still not jaded by the so-called Fleiss editing.



    DH & my F1 pick is Tessa. People can obsess over every little detail, but Bevin is NOT getting the F1 edit. Some people think that the edit is to throw people off, but Andy is actually on the press junket now and declaring that the viewers will see love story unfold. Do people realize how much the PR agents control what’s said at these press junkets? DH was in the entertainment industry for a long time, and some of the PR agents/studios wouldn’t let people cough without going through them first. Unless Fleiss was absolutely desperate to hide the true F1(Bevin/Danielle?), he wouldn’t let Andy talk about this “love story”. Another thing that makes me believe that Tessa is F1 is because Fleiss most likely needs to edit Andy’s fiancé as someone who is really likable for the benefit of Andy and F1’s family and the viewers because Andy is such a nice guy. If I were Andy’s family and saw Bevin’s edit, I would be very concerned about Andy’s choice of someone who he is physically attracted to but seems so desperate from the get-go. By the way, if Tessa is indeed the F1 she and Andy like need to join like Toastmasters together.

    !
    Ms.Anthrope, I love your posts! You have very eloquently articulated my thoughts exactly. This is also my second installment of the show, the last being Meredith/Ian season.

    For what it’s worth, my analysis is also non-sleuth, non-jaded (yet) point of view. With all the deceptive editing, I also watch this show as a work of fiction, loosely based on actual events (lol).

    I agree with your assessment that Bevin cannot be the F1, for all the reasons you have pointed out. Additionally, her edit has been so unfavorable, that she cannot possibly be redeemed sufficiently for the viewers to embrace her as the F1. One thing that’s been puzzling me, as well as many on the board, is why the scathing edit for Bevin? What purpose does it serve to cast a potential F1 in such unflattering light? This may be far fetched, but this is the only thing that’s plausible:

    Now we know that there is a successful love story – as another poster mentioned, “this is a gold mine for Fleiss”. If Bevin is the F1, I think it would be ridiculously stupid of the producers to slaughter the leading lady and the love story just to hide her as the final one. What a waste of a great love story.

    In the past, the “who will it be?” guessing game has been the lure to draw the audience, week after week. But maybe this time, they really do want to give us a love story - Andy and Tessa’s. But the story still needs the prerequisite drama and the doubt mixed in, to keep the audience interested. So, maybe the bait to snag the audience is Bevin. Think about it, it’s been The Bevin Show, from the very beginning. She’s been the buzz since the show started. She provides the drama, controversy, and the tvBevin can be manipulated each week to add to the guessing game. This would be a win-win situation for Fleiss, he can tell a love story, and still get the ratings he needs. So it could be that the “most shocking Final Rose, ever” might be shocking in that there is no shock! .

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    Re: Is Fleiss & Co. messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Regarding the Cinderella date: I think the two lovers say very important things and it's important that we trust the editing or we can't trust what they are saying. I've looked at that scene maybe 35 times, and I see NOTHING that would indicate a dishonest intention on the part of editing.

    Important talk:

    Tessa: I'm not jealous of the other dates . . ." That is SO important because here there IS an edit and she obviously has said something like "I'm not jealous of the other dates because I know how you really feel about me." But they can't use that A-roll quote in its entirety, for obvious reasons, so they have to chop a bit off what she says. But they do not put words in her mouth. She actually says what you hear. You just don't hear all of it.

    Andy, in the voice over (I think, but I'm not going to watch again, god!) says something I've never heard before on the bachelor. "I requested this particular date because of [sic] she doesn't want to go the distance unless she knows that I truly am interested in HER. Tonight I need to convince her that I'm a man that she wants and I'm going all out to prove it . . ."

    THEY DO NOT REQUEST DATES. They do what the producer says, usually. In extraordinary circumstances, they will honor requests -- remember when Mary and another former bachelorette entered Byron's season halfway through? They brought them in because Byron could not find anyone in the original 25 who interested him. Andy must have really wanted this date with Tess to have requested any change in the production schedule. It's so obvious that the slot for that date had been scheduled; just not so obvious who was planned to fill it. Andy wanted Tess, for the reason he gave. He had to convince her because "Tessa hasn't told me yet that she's 100% in this and willing to go the distance with me."

    That quote is so magical because OTHERS among the women have also not told him such a thing, but they didn't get the diamonds and the Koi fish. He was saying near the end of the episode that some of the women "had not put themselves out there," so he doesn't know where they stand. But, that's fine. He can eliminate them. Eliminating Tessa was not an option for Andy because, as Tessa says, "tonight will really be the night to make or break it."
    Wow. She KNOWS that they are going to decide on this date, together, if they are going to go the distance -- or she's going home. That's why she can afford not to be jealous of his other dates -- she's sure of him.

    Andy ends up "in a blissful state of mind," because Tessa "makes this whole process worthwhile." Andy "achieved what he set out to do," which was to convince Tessa that he is the man she wants.

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    Re: Is Fleiss & Co. messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Lol! Fleiss's newest twist...no twist!

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    Re: Is Fleiss & Co. messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    And, finally (I won't post again for three days, honest), Andy has some very interesting words in this scene.

    He says Tessa is not like other women who could be jealous because he "is receiving affection from other women."

    Wow. He sure doesn't talk about his having GIVEN affection. This might be a moment where Andy is thinking "damage control."

    Andy sees himself as having RECEIVED advances from women. He does not see himself as having initiated advances. Do we agree with him?
    Last edited by forestpal; 05-03-2007 at 02:43 AM. Reason: rotten spelling

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    Re: Is Fleiss & Co. messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    But honestly, this is my last word for 4 weeks:
    Someone asked why Bevin would be receiving such a nasty edit. Well, if that is the material she gave them, they don't have anything else to use. And I doubt Bevin thinks she's doing anything wrong. How many of us monitor our own behavior with perfect vision? Bevin is living by her standards, not mine. She may well like the edit she's got. She did do all those things seen on the screen. That's not some double filling in for her on a bad day.

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    Re: Is Fleiss & Co. messing with us regarding the editing? **SPOILERS**

    Er, one more thing, really important: before the rose ceremony, when Tessa tells Andy that she had a great time on their date, she says, "I've decided to trust and keep going." And Andy beams and looks joyful.

    I'm outta here.

    A repentant forestpal.

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