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Thread: And the final rose goes to. . . **Possible Spoilers**

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoria View Post
    Some sharp observer here pointed out that T & SS's fantasy suite kissing was one shorter kissing sequence re-looped 3-4 times. I was like, "OMG" when I re-watched it and saw it for myself, but that kiss isn't really what it appears upon first viewing. Have to give it to Fleiss on that --- pretty sneaky, Mikey! Then, I went and re-watched T & SS kissing after her parents left his place in Nashville. There are 2 kissing sequences at the end of that date --- one when they first get up from the couch and one at the door just before she leaves. Wouldn't ya know....the kissing when they get up from the couch is also re-looped (or the same exact moment in time is shown more than once from different camera angles). Gotta hand it to the editors for how they get the most possible mileage out of their footage (they make 6 seconds of kissing appear to be much more).

    I posted on this before but got no responses (post #690, page 35 of Spoilers/Speculation thread). I still think Travis ultimately chooses Sarah, but it just completely seems as if they are trying desperately to make it appear as if there's more b/t T & SS than there really is.

    I remain very skeptical that there's a love story here. Thank goodness I don't actually watch the show for romance anymore, just for laughs & sleuthing and playing with friends here at the FoRT. In all of my reviewing of scenes, I also found another editing gem. During Moana's hometown date, Travis comments that "it was the most uncomfortable 30 minutes I've had in a long time." The kicker? It wasn't voiceover --- T was shown speaking on camera and he was wearing clothes from an earlier 1-on-1 date that took place BEFORE he'd even visited any of the girls' homes. So since he made the comment BEFORE even going to the hometowns, it's impossible it relates to his time in SoCal. Even though I'm fully aware of the editing and comments being inserted out of context, I did intially believe his comment related to Mo's hometown date. It aggravates me to no end that Fleiss can still make a sucker outta me on occasion!
    Victoria, that's very interesting the Fleiss editing thing...
    With Sarah winning, the question will always be why couldn't they show more of Sarah, make her more likable, not one that seems to win by default. Instead they fill up the screen with someone with a strong and colorful personality like Moana. Not only Moana becomes the real heroine of the story but she the one who makes the success of this Bachelor. Obviously they couldn't find among the rolls of films enough to sustain our interest with Sarah's personality alone (not to mention Travis). If it was a hollywood movie everyone would be cheering for Moana. Of course it isn't a movie and certainly Travis is no hero...

  2. #252
    His Peace after the Storm cafegirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlsmom View Post
    There's another conclusion and that is that in real life the best part of the kiss was loped off and replaced by the recycled beginning. This would make the kiss seem like a kiss, but make it look awkward. The theory that the kiss was actually much better in real life is at least as strong as it being not as good in real life. Since there's so much evidence that he chose Sarah I would say that it is MORE likely that the later part of the kiss was the best part.
    Well, girlsmom, that may be case for the fantasy date, but not the hometown as Victoria has stated. Our sweet Sarah was the one to confirm that, when in a PI on her fantasy date, she stated she and Travis has shared some nice little kisses but she was hoping for more (during the fantasy date). Now, we can speculate until the shows over about what kind of kissing and "such" went on after the cameras clicked off during their overnight, but what's the point? .
    Since, I've accepted that the 'evidence' has Travis picking Sarah for the final one, I would hope that those kisses get a lot more serious!
    However, since this is a SHOW and a partially fabricated one at that, I would still love to see Travis take the ball and run with it and select the girl I can see him with for "one hell of a ride", Moana!
    "I can do all things through Him who strengthens me!"

  3. #253
    Premium Member jelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomer lady
    Victoria, that's very interesting the Fleiss editing thing...
    With Sarah winning, the question will always be why couldn't they show more of Sarah, make her more likable, not one that seems to win by default
    Actually, I suspect that the footage showed too much of S & T interactions and they couldn't show it without giving away the story. (Other than Fleiss has a heavy editing hand)
    I also think that Moana, by this time, is fully cognizant of the situation with T and S (whether spoken or not). I think she is intuitive enough to at least wonder. Krisiley said the same about Charlie.

    This of course is all supposing that Sarah is the one he chooses and that the helicopter is to take them bungie jumping from the Eifel Tower before they leave Paris.

    PS
    I think that it is interesting that the last three bachelors - a fisherman, a B actor, a boring doc - who have all gotten terribly snarking reviews from the boards, actually were taking the process seriously and, currently are still with their chosen one.
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  4. #254
    FORT Fogey HotMomma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by natashapierre View Post
    This makes sense from what I've seen, but I don't know that the producers craft things to produce this kind of sense. Sarah talked a lot more than Moana -- that we saw, plus Moana went out of her way to say, well, Travis, all I'm thinking about is just you and me not the other stuff -- and we do know that Travis seems not to like the talking about other people. But in the past I don't think the producers have been too interested in portraying the winner as matching any criteria expressed by the chooser. Seems to me they've just wanted to depict the winner as bad enough to make you wonder but not bad enough to turn everybody off them completely, and aside from that they mostly picked voiceovers and so on to show because they advanced the story line in some other way. I don't know if they're thoughtful enough to pick up on this talking-about-people thing with Sarah. Seems kind of subtle, compared to their usual. It would be interesting if this did turn out to matter, though.
    I still think that if the doc chose SS with him watching this show would be quit dissappointed with her. As with Moana he would respect her more going thru everyone picking on her and never said a bad word about them... ANd if you remember on SS over night date he told SS that he was impressed that she said nothing ill about the other 2 women. And now he wouldn't say that.
    Also with Moana he liked her from day one remember their one on one time outside they were really into each other than, He told her that he was happy that she was there.I think everything kept building for those two from the wine date(which we didn't see them talking) to the yacht date... ANd I think on the hometown date is where they fell in love with each other.
    and as 2observe said about the doc saying it was the longest 30min of my life that outfit he wore on the 1 on 1 date with SS.. so that was probably when they had to sit to get that stupid pic done! ANyway I would be totally surprised if he picked SS, Which I really feel that Moana is the one and has been for a very long time, He knows how she feels ever since the hometown date and if he wasn't going to keep her to the end I think he would have cut her loose at that R/C.
    But I guess we will know for sure come Monday!

  5. #255
    FORT Fanatic victoria's Avatar
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    Actually, I suspect that the footage showed too much of S & T interactions and they couldn't show it without giving away the story.
    This makes me b/c I can be the absolute WORST of the editing conspiracy theorists and in the past I would've agreed with you utterly and completely. But I've overthunk this show so many times and been totally burned. So I finally quit all that and just go with what's obvious in the screencaps. I'm 110% (loving quoting Susan LOL) certain that Sarah is Travis' final choice. And I've also said that, IMO, SS & T are a better match than T & M based on how all 3 characters have been presented.

    Where I'm skeptical is when it comes to a real lurrrrrrve connection. And I think the post I originally replied to upthread perfectly illustrates my point. My sense is that all of these looped T & SS kisses are intended by the editors to make it look like T & SS are totally into each other b/c if you don't realize they're looped, that's how it looks. Here's part of what the poster I responded to said:
    3rd clue: And he looked REALLY into that kiss. They couldn't stop kissing, smiling, and holding each other.
    5th clue:Major kissing going on in the suite. Did anyone else think that their kiss was one of the longest in bachelor history? It seemed to go on and on that I was embarrassed staring at them.
    If that's how it's coming across, then I think that's exactly how the editors intend it to come across. Since it seems they're trying to make less seem more, why leave out stuff? That just makes no sense to me at all Seriously, it's no skin off my nose if everyone sees it differently. I'm truly at peace agreeing to disagree, but I'm just callin' 'em like I see 'em. FLEISS is my sworn enemy/my nemesis/the man I love to hate, not all of you guys here in the FoRT. Personally, I like to think we're all on the same team....the BEAT FLEISS Team.

  6. #256
    FORT Fogey Noreen's Avatar
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    Ah Victoria, How can you want to BEAT a man that has brought us the most entertaining Real Reality ever. Just look at his fine Emmy worthy shows.
    The Will - oops, not that one, it was cancelled after one episode.
    The Starlet, Big Man On Campus, High School Reunion, (my favorite, Are You Hot) And the scandalous winner, Who Wants to Marry a Multi-Millionaire. His cousin Hedi is so proud.

  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoria View Post
    Where I'm skeptical is when it comes to a real lurrrrrrve connection.
    Yeah, no kidding. If you have to look for clues with a microscope and "read into" things that's never a good sign. Personally I think there's nothing there between Doc and Sarah Kindergarten except a strong desire to go to McDonald's together once a month for a couple of months.

    If that's how it's coming across, then I think that's exactly how the editors intend it to come across. Since it seems they're trying to make less seem more, why leave out stuff? That just makes no sense to me at all Seriously, it's no skin off my nose if everyone sees it differently. I'm truly at peace agreeing to disagree, but I'm just callin' 'em like I see 'em. FLEISS is my sworn enemy/my nemesis/the man I love to hate, not all of you guys here in the FoRT. Personally, I like to think we're all on the same team....the BEAT FLEISS Team.
    Sadly, this is where you and I part ways, LOL. See I luuurve Fleiss, although I frequently make fun of him around here, that's just out of luuurve . I think he's a genius! Just imagine Dr.Phil in charge of this crap show and you'll be able to see that we're way, way, way better off with Fleiss . Imagine how much worse it would be if this show started to take itself seriously and actually, honestly aimed to help people find luuuurve. What would we be snarking about?
    I say, don't bite the hand that feeds us, victoria.
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  8. #258
    FORT Fogey girlsmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brightcryptic View Post
    Moana in the main broadcasts may not have said much, but they did show several clips on the WTA with her observations.
    In real life Moana is probably nothing but pseudo intellectual SNARK. You know it. To make Moan out to be a total innocent is ludicrous, she'd be spitting out her drink guffawing if she read this carricaturization of herself. She may be many things, but naive little wallflower she's not. She doesn't take s### off of anybody. She writes her own rules and to heck with what anybody else wants. Trying to turn her into a poor little victim is hilarious. This doesn't mean she couldn't be a nice person, but please, she doesn't give a rip. She gives as good as she gets and gets even, not mad. She just knows how to play the game. But, unfortunately she loses this game.

  9. #259
    FORT Fanatic victoria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsFroggy View Post
    Sadly, this is where you and I part ways, LOL. See I luuurve Fleiss, although I frequently make fun of him around here, that's just out of luuurve . I think he's a genius! Just imagine Dr.Phil in charge of this crap show and you'll be able to see that we're way, way, way better off with Fleiss . Imagine how much worse it would be if this show started to take itself seriously and actually, honestly aimed to help people find luuuurve. What would we be snarking about?
    I say, don't bite the hand that feeds us, victoria.
    Froggy --- you're right, you're right, you're ABSOLUTELY right. I to you. Allow me to put on my Susan hat once more and explain what I meant in case it was misinterpreted......what I meant is.....I just wanna sniff out the "winner" at least 4 weeks prior to the FRC and Fleiss is my sworn enemy in that endeavor. But I do actually luuuurve him, too, b/c he keeps me interested enough to inspire little fits during my sleuthing akin to Shiloh's stomping/towel throwing fit during the S. of France date. GOOOOOOD TIIIIIIMES!

  10. #260
    His Peace after the Storm cafegirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlsmom View Post
    In real life Moana is probably nothing but pseudo intellectual SNARK. You know it. To make Moan out to be a total innocent is ludicrous, she'd be spitting out her drink guffawing if she read this carricaturization of herself. She may be many things, but naive little wallflower she's not. She doesn't take s### off of anybody. She writes her own rules and to heck with what anybody else wants. Trying to turn her into a poor little victim is hilarious. This doesn't mean she couldn't be a nice person, but please, she doesn't give a rip. She gives as good as she gets and gets even, not mad. She just knows how to play the game. But, unfortunately she loses this game.
    Well, my friend, girlsmom, we seem to agree on something! What I've hi-lighted is the only thing, though, I'm sad to say I can adamantly agree with. Geez, To characterize Moana as someone who 'doesn't give a rip'... 'gets even, not mad" "writes her own rules and to heck what everyone else wants" is basically caricaturing the "persona" of an individual I wasn't aware that you knew personally, but more importantly, is basically the reverse slam of what all the Sarah fans are crying out 'foul' in generalizing Sarah!!
    We can scrutinize, snark and flame-ho all these girls, but it goes two ways. I don't see Sarah or Moana in their "real" life existence being capable of living up to the parody of labels we have heaved on both of them.
    I've said, personally, I like both girls and have had a heck of a good time snarking about both (in the context of this show), but for me and mind you, it's just my opinion, it's a large leap to characterize either girl as stereotype of the character we've come to assign them on the boards and the show.
    Personally, I think either girl would be fun to meet and have some interesting conversations with.. but that's just me!
    "I can do all things through Him who strengthens me!"

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