1/30 Bachelor 16 Show Thread Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers*

[KatesMom]

Yes, but if you'd just gotten engaged to Mr. Rattus and a video of him skinny dipping with a woman that he barely knew was showing on national TV, and it turned out that that "episode" had happened only two weeks before you got engaged.... Well, I know that I would be upset. And, embarassed. And, my family would have a FIT.

It sounds like you & the hubby had a non-exclusive relationship for the first year or so. Completely different (and much more REAL) situation.

To be honest, I have to disagree with the characterization. Because the reality is, even if you are engaged to this person - you know HOW it happened. You, and all your family members, knew you were on a reality show. You all knew your intended was dating other women. You all knew they had to make for good TV. The phrase "don't have the player, hate the game" comes to mind. I have repeatedly heard final couples from this show who made it for any substantial length of time after the show wrapped say that the show is a fantasy and the relationship started once the cameras stop rolling. You would have to look at it that way - or else you shouldn't be on the show and your post-show relationship will not stand a chance.

[Fanny Mare]

To be honest, I have to disagree with the characterization. Because the reality is, even if you are engaged to this person - you know HOW it happened. You, and all your family members, knew you were on a reality show. You all knew your intended was dating other women. You all knew they had to make for good TV. The phrase "don't have the player, hate the game" comes to mind. I have repeatedly heard final couples from this show who made it for any substantial length of time after the show wrapped say that the show is a fantasy and the relationship started once the cameras stop rolling. You would have to look at it that way - or else you shouldn't be on the show and your post-show relationship will not stand a chance.

You make way too much sense

[AlwaysVeg]

To be honest, I have to disagree with the characterization. Because the reality is, even if you are engaged to this person - you know HOW it happened. You, and all your family members, knew you were on a reality show. You all knew your intended was dating other women. You all knew they had to make for good TV. The phrase "don't have the player, hate the game" comes to mind. I have repeatedly heard final couples from this show who made it for any substantial length of time after the show wrapped say that the show is a fantasy and the relationship started once the cameras stop rolling. You would have to look at it that way - or else you shouldn't be on the show and your post-show relationship will not stand a chance.

Even though the show is a fantasy, we still can see qualities and characteristics of a person that they also have in real life. If not, certain people wouldn't be remaking about how it's no wonder that a contestant doesn't have a relationship in real life because she's boring or complaining or a crybaby, or that the lead is a jerk and then we see that to be true after the show is over (Jake the Fake comes to mind), etc. Nobody held a gun to Ben's head and made him strip in front of the cameras so he could rub up against Courtney naked in the ocean, and whatever else they did. That was his choice, pure and simple, and it was disrespectful to the other women still in the running, as well as just plain bad taste and a big clue to his character.

[Fanny Mare]

To be honest, I have to disagree with the characterization. Because the reality is, even if you are engaged to this person - you know HOW it happened. You, and all your family members, knew you were on a reality show. You all knew your intended was dating other women. You all knew they had to make for good TV. The phrase "don't have the player, hate the game" comes to mind. I have repeatedly heard final couples from this show who made it for any substantial length of time after the show wrapped say that the show is a fantasy and the relationship started once the cameras stop rolling. You would have to look at it that way - or else you shouldn't be on the show and your post-show relationship will not stand a chance.

I think there has been more talk about this show, than any other this week.Which I am sure The model and Ben ( love ya Ben) are loving I saw polls that really like him, and others that didnt. I dont like polls, they are snapshot in time . The only ones I look at with real interest are political, bachelor polls not so much.

[sweetpea]

I really could care less about the skinny dipping, and if it had been on one of the fantasy dates, well I could kind of see it. But this early? It just seems tasteless to me, and thoughtless as well considering how many girls are still in the running and essentially they were 'sneaking away' to do this behind the other girls' backs. Was it exciting for them? Oh, I'm sure it was! But it was also tasteless imo and something I could see Jake or Blob do, but honestly not Brad or Byron or Travis.

[KatesMom]

Even though the show is a fantasy, we still can see qualities and characteristics of a person that they also have in real life. If not, certain people wouldn't be remaking about how it's no wonder that a contestant doesn't have a relationship in real life because she's boring or complaining or a crybaby, or that the lead is a jerk and then we see that to be true after the show is over (Jake the Fake comes to mind), etc. Nobody held a gun to Ben's head and made him strip in front of the cameras so he could rub up against Courtney naked in the ocean, and whatever else they did. That was his choice, pure and simple, and it was disrespectful to the other women still in the running, as well as just plain bad taste and a big clue to his character.

We don't know these people and we have no idea what part of this is really them vs. what part of it is edited. Jake is an absolutely perfect example. How many people (maybe not on this board) were absolutely in love with him during Jillian's season? Then we saw a different side of him on his show. Based on what has happened and what we have seen since, we know which is the real Jake. Same with Jillian, Ashley, Aly, Jason, etc., etc., etc. Ben is just the most recent. The Ben we are seeing this season is different from the Ben we saw last season. Who is the real Ben? My guess is somewhere in the middle - but we don't know - all we know is what the producers choose to show us. I, for one, refuse to take anything on see on TV as gospel as to who and what a person really is - I know all the wonderful editing games the producers can play.

[Annastasia B]

I think the biggest difference with Ben is that he got naked on national tv. Something the other bach's haven't done. I think it definitely an new low for this show (and for Ben). Ben's in a class now all his own... and it isn't a good one.

[Fanny Mare]

We don't know these people and we have no idea what part of this is really them vs. what part of it is edited. Jake is an absolutely perfect example. How many people (maybe not on this board) were absolutely in love with him during Jillian's season? Then we saw a different side of him on his show. Based on what has happened and what we have seen since, we know which is the real Jake. Same with Jillian, Ashley, Aly, Jason, etc., etc., etc. Ben is just the most recent. The Ben we are seeing this season is different from the Ben we saw last season. Who is the real Ben? My guess is somewhere in the middle - but we don't know - all we know is what the producers choose to show us. I, for one, refuse to take anything on see on TV as gospel as to who and what a person really is - I know all the wonderful editing games the producers can play.

I know he skinny dipped, I also said when he came back, and saw the other women.I dont think he felt that good about it. Too late , move on Ben. Enjoy the short time this show offers you, with whoever you want to. Life is short, have fun! its pure entertainment. I dont know if I would continue to watch if I hated Ben. I am so glad I do not

[Midol]

We don't know these people and we have no idea what part of this is really them vs. what part of it is edited. Jake is an absolutely perfect example. How many people (maybe not on this board) were absolutely in love with him during Jillian's season? Then we saw a different side of him on his show. Based on what has happened and what we have seen since, we know which is the real Jake. Same with Jillian, Ashley, Aly, Jason, etc., etc., etc. Ben is just the most recent. The Ben we are seeing this season is different from the Ben we saw last season. Who is the real Ben? My guess is somewhere in the middle - but we don't know - all we know is what the producers choose to show us. I, for one, refuse to take anything on see on TV as gospel as to who and what a person really is - I know all the wonderful editing games the producers can play.

I for one did not like Jake from the first 1:1 date with Jillian and everything after just further confirmed my opinion. Most of them I just found boring, rather than liking or disliking them. I found Ben boring and unattractive last season and this season is no different. He is still the same guy who made the "Cream Dreams" video...tasteless, immature, with bad judgement. The skinny dipping just further confirmed that. I don't care about what he did so much as how and when he did it. As Kyptin said they can only work with what you give them and Ben clearly has given plenty. Those are his choices and he will have to live with the consequences.

[ButterflyFaery]

I don't hate Ben...but I do think he has made some bad decisions that will probably follow him for a long time