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Thread: 3/12 Bachelor 16: The Finale and ATFR **West Coast Spoilers**

  1. #241
    Live-Love-Laugh Fanny Mare's Avatar
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    Re: 3/12 Bachelor 16: The Finale and ATFR **West Coast Spoilers**

    I did LOL at the AFTR audience, were they the same as TWA? Did they leave and come back., or just stay? all the gasps and the hands to their faces. I find everything so well orchestrated including the boos and the oohs and aahs, its very telling how controlled this whole thing is
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  2. #242
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    Re: 3/12 Bachelor 16: The Finale and ATFR **West Coast Spoilers**

    It seems like I say the same thing at the end of each season -- this show just illustrates why all these people are still single.

    They show up, each with their own wagonload of issues and they leave with the same wagonload of issues. Nothing is resolved, nobody matures, no lightning bolt epiphanies. The challenge is to find the person whose wagonload of issues is compatible, or even complimentary, to yours.

    What are the chances? One in a million? Billion?

    Next.
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  3. #243
    Anachronism before Noon Cat Bowling Champion Anemic Dog's Avatar
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    Re: 3/12 Bachelor 16: The Finale and ATFR **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Mare View Post
    I did LOL at the AFTR audience, were they the same as TWA? Did they leave and come back., or just stay? all the gasps and the hands to their faces. I find everything so well orchestrated including the boos and the oohs and aahs, its very telling how controlled this whole thing is
    Not to mention the frowns and the nods and angry glares. I think they borrowed the audience from Kacie's home-town church. In fact, if you look closely, you'll see batons tucked neatly under a few seats.
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  4. #244
    9/11/2001 NEVER FORGET. Ten Pin Bowling Champion, Bookworm Champion Eastcoastmom's Avatar
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    Re: 3/12 Bachelor 16: The Finale and ATFR **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Anemic Dog View Post
    Not to mention the frowns and the nods and angry glares. I think they borrowed the audience from Kacie's home-town church. In fact, if you look closely, you'll see batons tucked neatly under a few seats.
    -- funniest post of this entire thread!
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  5. #245
    Reformed Perfectionist G.G.'s Avatar
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    Re: 3/12 Bachelor 16: The Finale and ATFR **West Coast Spoilers**

    After watching TWTA and ATFR, I had some thoughts about Courtney. They may be incorrect but for some crazy reason, I'm feeling like playing devil's advocate.

    In school, there was always a girl who was tall, slender, maybe kind of geeky-looking or at least awkward-looking, and everyone teased or picked on you, the boys and the girls. When that happens you learn to build up defense mechanisms so it doesn't hurt that you don't really have any friends because they all pick on you. You sit alone at lunch, you walk home from school or sit on the bus alone. Every day you steel yourself for the taunts you know will come your way. You're alone and lonely and you don't know why.

    Later on...maybe you blossom. You become pretty, you mature into your height and the awkward phase is gone. Some people suddenly do want to be your friend...and others still treat you horribly because they are a bit jealous. Some of the people who want to be your friend don't really want to be your friend because they like you - they want to be your friend because of what you can do for them, or maybe even so they can go back to their cliques and gossip about you, etc. Boys may ask you out but are they asking because they like you or because they like what you look like? You've been friendless so long that now people think you're stuck up...and aren't shy about saying it. Why do these people who treated you poorly in the past all of a sudden want to be your friend?

    Now you're an adult. You're successful and attractive. You're in a business where looks are everything - you gain or lose jobs because of how you look. Other people in your same business are catty, jealous and gossipy because of how you look (and what job you got instead of them based on those looks, etc.) Men ask you out, and some may be sincere, but I'm sure many ask because you're "a model". You build up more defense mechanisms (some inappropriate) and maybe feel pretty insignificant as a person. You spent your formative years learning to not trust people and insulate yourself against being hurt. You don't learn how to be gracious or trusting or how to accept friendship.

    Fast-forward to The Bachelor. You're in a house with 24 other women, all competing for the same guy. You don't know how to be friends with these women because you've not really had true friends before. Your inappropriate defense mechanism come out to play. You're snarky, childish, mean...but also falling in love. Maybe you know the things you're doing or saying to the other women are hurtful, or maybe you're oblivious because it's what past experience taught you would protect you. And then there's the guy: he's nice, he's sweet, you find him attractive and maybe you start to feel like you deserve something good.

    I do think Courtney watched herself on TV and realized how terribly she behaved - there were times that she looked shocked, hurt, defeated, even sorry. She didn't have to put herself in the line of fire with those women like she did. I think Ben was rightfully upset at what he saw...but I do think he fell in love with a totally different woman than we saw on TV. I think underneath "the mean" is a woman who is really vulnerable, extremely insecure, hasn't a clue how to accept friendship and really is desperate to be loved. I think for all her bravado about how immature some of the women were, Courtney herself is still a little girl in many ways. It almost made me sad to watch. I don't think she played the villain or tried to "win" in order to boost her 15 minutes - it would appear she is a successful model without all that.

    Ben's not my type...but I could see how he and Courtney could be compatible. Every season people become upset when their favorite isn't chosen but at the end of the run, but the lead has to choose whom he thinks is right for him. I don't like how Courtney treated the other women...but then again, I didn't like how most of those same women treated Shawntel either. Blakeley wasn't exactly nice to the others either. I just have a feeling that Courtney's behavior hints at some really deep-rooted growing-up trauma.

  6. #246
    FORT Fogey nanarama's Avatar
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    Re: 3/12 Bachelor 16: The Finale and ATFR **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Anemic Dog View Post
    As we've heard from past contestants, it can be obvious who the favorites are.

    It's entirely possible, not that I'd know, that Ben made it clear Courtney was a favorite from very early on. Which would mean that she would be rebuffed if she tried to act normally in the cathouse. She might not be lying when she says that she initially tried to be friendly, in her quirky way. We only saw the highlights of her catty-ness, because Fleiss has a story to tell.
    Actually, it has where the lead was obvious at the beginning - and just recently. Emily Maynard in Brad's season was highly favored and it did cause some controvery with the other girls calling Brad on it. However, Emily continued to be her sweet, likeable self. (Though I am among the many who felt she was boring.) I still think Courtney needs to honestly "own" her unnaceptable behavior. And not just cry because "Ben wasn't there for her," or she didn't know how to behave in this "stressful situation." "Maybe I could have behaved a little differently but the others were mean to me, too."

    I don't know Courtney, but she clearly behaved badly - as Ben finally witnessed. If she'll own up to it personally and try to do better relating to others for her sake, she'll be a happier person throuoghout her life.
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  7. #247
    FORT Fogey mesachick's Avatar
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    Re: 3/12 Bachelor 16: The Finale and ATFR **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by G.G. View Post
    After watching TWTA and ATFR, I had some thoughts about Courtney. They may be incorrect but for some crazy reason, I'm feeling like playing devil's advocate.

    In school, there was always a girl who was tall, slender, maybe kind of geeky-looking or at least awkward-looking, and everyone teased or picked on you, the boys and the girls. When that happens you learn to build up defense mechanisms so it doesn't hurt that you don't really have any friends because they all pick on you. You sit alone at lunch, you walk home from school or sit on the bus alone. Every day you steel yourself for the taunts you know will come your way. You're alone and lonely and you don't know why.

    Later on...maybe you blossom. You become pretty, you mature into your height and the awkward phase is gone. Some people suddenly do want to be your friend...and others still treat you horribly because they are a bit jealous. Some of the people who want to be your friend don't really want to be your friend because they like you - they want to be your friend because of what you can do for them, or maybe even so they can go back to their cliques and gossip about you, etc. Boys may ask you out but are they asking because they like you or because they like what you look like? You've been friendless so long that now people think you're stuck up...and aren't shy about saying it. Why do these people who treated you poorly in the past all of a sudden want to be your friend?

    Now you're an adult. You're successful and attractive. You're in a business where looks are everything - you gain or lose jobs because of how you look. Other people in your same business are catty, jealous and gossipy because of how you look (and what job you got instead of them based on those looks, etc.) Men ask you out, and some may be sincere, but I'm sure many ask because you're "a model". You build up more defense mechanisms (some inappropriate) and maybe feel pretty insignificant as a person. You spent your formative years learning to not trust people and insulate yourself against being hurt. You don't learn how to be gracious or trusting or how to accept friendship.

    Fast-forward to The Bachelor. You're in a house with 24 other women, all competing for the same guy. You don't know how to be friends with these women because you've not really had true friends before. Your inappropriate defense mechanism come out to play. You're snarky, childish, mean...but also falling in love. Maybe you know the things you're doing or saying to the other women are hurtful, or maybe you're oblivious because it's what past experience taught you would protect you. And then there's the guy: he's nice, he's sweet, you find him attractive and maybe you start to feel like you deserve something good.

    I do think Courtney watched herself on TV and realized how terribly she behaved - there were times that she looked shocked, hurt, defeated, even sorry. She didn't have to put herself in the line of fire with those women like she did. I think Ben was rightfully upset at what he saw...but I do think he fell in love with a totally different woman than we saw on TV. I think underneath "the mean" is a woman who is really vulnerable, extremely insecure, hasn't a clue how to accept friendship and really is desperate to be loved. I think for all her bravado about how immature some of the women were, Courtney herself is still a little girl in many ways. It almost made me sad to watch. I don't think she played the villain or tried to "win" in order to boost her 15 minutes - it would appear she is a successful model without all that.

    Ben's not my type...but I could see how he and Courtney could be compatible. Every season people become upset when their favorite isn't chosen but at the end of the run, but the lead has to choose whom he thinks is right for him. I don't like how Courtney treated the other women...but then again, I didn't like how most of those same women treated Shawntel either. Blakeley wasn't exactly nice to the others either. I just have a feeling that Courtney's behavior hints at some really deep-rooted growing-up trauma.

    You have it backwards though... Courtney was the one that was picking on other people as she grew up, including special ed kids (which I find even more disgusting). She was labeled the mean girl in her school, and hung out with a similar crowd. Courtney is just a mean girl, and from her comments all season, one can see that she still behaves as one.
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  8. #248
    Reformed Perfectionist G.G.'s Avatar
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    Re: 3/12 Bachelor 16: The Finale and ATFR **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by mesachick View Post
    You have it backwards though... Courtney was the one that was picking on other people as she grew up, including special ed kids (which I find even more disgusting). She was labeled the mean girl in her school, and hung out with a similar crowd. Courtney is just a mean girl, and from her comments all season, one can see that she still behaves as one.
    That's the first I've heard of that. Is there a credible source I can check out?

    I'm not saying my opinion is 100% true (or even 50% true) and I surely won't try to argue my point. People will think what they want to think and believe what they want to believe. I don't know Courtney - I don't know if she was a mean girl. I don't know if she was the girl the mean girls picked on. I wanted to offer up one possible alternate scenario.

  9. #249
    FORT Fogey Longhornfan's Avatar
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    Re: 3/12 Bachelor 16: The Finale and ATFR **West Coast Spoilers**

    I just read on EW's website that Ben's finale was the lowest ever in the franchise's history. It dropped 36% from the Bachelor's finale from last season. LOL.
    BTW, NEPASue and Nice'n'Easy like this.

  10. #250
    Resident "tyrant" JavaJo's Avatar
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    Re: 3/12 Bachelor 16: The Finale and ATFR **West Coast Spoilers**

    G.G., Courtney wasn't the awkward girl in school. She was a cheerleader and quite popular. And there are photos out there that prove that. There have also been numerous interviews with people she attended high school with, as well as with her friends. If you look, you can find them.

    I believe that she was just a snot then and is just a snot now. Because the thing is...I was poor growing up and with chain smoking parents, I often smelled like I spent the night in a bar. Growing up wasn't much fun for me. However, as an adult, I know the right way to treat people. I'm not nasty to them just because once upon a time someone was nasty to me. So I can't give her a pass even if she was picked on as a kid.
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