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Thread: An excellent article

  1. #11
    FORT Newbie Avg John's Bro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skwadim
    That's fine, but I think he is still making the claim that the "hook" is something that shouldn't be used as a "hook." And I think its a rather convenient assumption you've made to say he's seen the first and/or second episode prior to writing the article.
    So he just made up his article based on previews? He's not writing for a small town paper, this is the Washington Post. I guarantee he's seen the first episode, why would we read a review he's written about it otherwise?

    As for the hook, I completely agree that the hook may be wrong to use for the show. And I agree that was his basic statement. But to review a show and see it at only the surface level, especially for a premiere, is very amateur for a major newspaper reviewer. Why did he ignore the friends introducing the babe to the quiter fellows? Or Dennis washing a friends shirt? Was that a freak show? I just don't like the complete disregard of the show as gimmick, when within the first episode there is a lot of motion away from the gimmick towards connection with the audience. That was ignored in this article.

    Quote Originally Posted by skwadim
    There's a big difference between you insulting yourself, and having someone do it to you.
    Damn straight! And that's my whole point! Most of what is "insulting" are just things the guys did aired for the public. The worst the show does to "insult" the guys directly is claim it's more like "Beauty and the geeks". For most of the guys on the show, I bet they wouldn't mind that statement all that much. So how did the show insult them by airing them saying the wrong thing? It might be embarrasing, but it's not a public flogging, as Cowell's remarks often are in AI. The "insult" is made either by other contestents on the show (which is what reality TV is all about... social interaction) or it's apparently made within the viewer themselves who make value judgements based on what they see. So perhaps what's happening is that throughout the show some viewers do become emotionally connected with some characters, and then become angered about how they reacted earlier on to their favorite character, and they blame the producers for "forcing" this. Possible theory...

    Quote Originally Posted by skwadim
    Don't take this the wrong way, but I personally don't see how you can have an objective view on this issue. From your username, its obvious that you have a vested interest in supporting the show.
    I totally agree. That's why I prefaced my first statement in this thread with just such a disclaimer. But at the same time, if this article is to be believed, and the show was nothing but a joke about the guys, then shouldn't I be lambasting it and talking about how cruel it was to my poor brother or his newfound friends? I certainly agree that I likely have a very subjective view of this show, but it nevertheless is an interesting discussion about the makeup of a reality TV show. I find the struggle for a producer to transition from the hook to the emotional drama within one episode to be a fascinating venture. Then again, I am a Communication Arts major, and this sort of critical viewing of media has always been kind of fun for me.

    So I guess I understand the need for the hook. A show like the bachelorett or Temptation Island has it fairly easy to land the first show ratings. People are pretty eager to tune in and watch a bunch of sexxy singles parade around. This show could not use sex as a draw, so it had to move to other options. I believe in the end the core of the show will be a lot like the bachaloret, where drama and empathy rule. But without sex appeal, people just would not tune in to watch a bunch of average guys hang out with a babe and vie for attention, at least they would not make a point to see the first episode.

    So the hook was needed. Was it wrong... perhaps, but it was necessary to be sure that people gave the show, and the guys a chance. At first people may be laughing at them, but before long, most will replace that with empathy, and a hit show is made. And with a group like this, the comic relief is already built in.

    I think it will make for a very entertaining run.
    Last edited by Avg John's Bro; 11-05-2003 at 07:03 PM.

  2. #12
    FORT Regular babydog's Avatar
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    Avg John's Bro, you managed to say very cogently what I wanted to say but didn't have the time to. I live in a super-geeky area and many of these guys remind me of co-workers, friends, and men that I have had relationships with. I agree that the hook is necessary and IMHO not particularly harsh; in fact is quite amusing to the geeks I know.

    I might add that I find these men so much more interesting than the usual pretty boy casts.

    Long live Average Joe!

  3. #13
    Caged Mah Jongg Solitaire Champion Maveno's Avatar
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    crybaby author

    quoted from the author of the article:
    That would be a reality one could cheer. The loser would be NBC, and not the 16 schnooks lured into the scam, or the victimized viewers seduced into tuning in to this swill.




    ::::sniff:::: DAMN IT MAN!!!!! I'M....I'm..a...::sniff:: a VICTIMMMMmmmmm!!!!!!!


    Wow, and I was even seduced into being a victim.

    blah blah blah..he's just upset cause nobody called him to be on the show and he'll NEVER get an opportunity to date the hotty.
    Last edited by Maveno; 11-07-2003 at 08:59 PM.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maveno

    blah blah blah..he's just upset cause nobody called him to be on the show and he'll NEVER get an opportunity to date the hotty.
    Way to go Maveno.....nailed it!!!!!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avg John's Bro
    I just don't like the complete disregard of the show as gimmick,
    Haven't we already agreed that his disregard is for what you are calling the hook and not the entire show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avg John's Bro
    So perhaps what's happening is that throughout the show some viewers do become emotionally connected with some characters,
    Well its kinda hard to gauge that from someone who is already emotionally connected with the characters before hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avg John's Bro


    shouldn't I be lambasting it and talking about how cruel it was to my poor brother or his newfound friends?
    Well I assume that your brother didnt have a revolver pointed to his head when joining the cast, and entered the show voluntarily. So any sort of criticism of the show on your part would seem like a conflict of interest, and possibly even hypocritical.

    No one is debating the need for a hook. But this bait and switch routine would and should vex most viewers. Imagine seeing the trailers for '24' being about a biological attack in Los Angeles, and then having the next 23 hours be about a knitting circle in Duluth? Not exactly establishing trust in the viewer.

    Going back to your AI comparison, I think outright insulting of the participants while maybe initially hits hard, does in fact wear off, but you have to understand that the subtext of a show like AJ is that these guys are sub-par, that they are lacking in character and self worth.

    Anyway instead of a comm major I'd consider law. Your responses are well thought out, but not concise to say the least.

    Good luck to you and any other future reality ventures youmay pursue

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maveno
    .. he'll NEVER get an opportunity to date the hotty.

    Neither will any of these guys, they'll just get to be on camera with her to sell a show, if they or you think otherwise... well.. I have a couple bridges to sell you.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by skwadim
    Neither will any of these guys, they'll just get to be on camera with her to sell a show, if they or you think otherwise... well.. I have a couple bridges to sell you.
    Could someone please explain just what a "BABE" is? Is it just her appearance that makes this girl a "BABE"? The only thing we know for sure about this girl is that she is attractive to the eye. What about character, sense of humor? Who know's, she might be (heaven forbid) a dog hater.

  8. #18
    FORT Fogey Noreen's Avatar
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    I got a feeling she is a DOG hater (smile)

  9. #19
    FORT Newbie GhostWriter's Avatar
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    Thoughts?

    I agree that the show isn't ALL bad. It will be a real eye-opener for some if they can read between the lines and not pay attention to the hype.

    The Joes on the show may be naive to the fact that they will actually end up with Malana, but they should expect going into it that they could get a lot of flak but at the same time get a lot of praise and support too.

    Why would NBC want to alienate the vast majority of its viewers by doing a show that does nothing but bash and humiliate geeks?

    Malana's been very sweet and honest about her feelings, and like you say, it's a true test of her character as well.


  10. #20
    FORT Newbie Lu 1970's Avatar
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    So I can't believe I've lurked on this site for at least six months and watching the premiere of Average Joe tonight has finally prompted me to come out of the shadows..

    Regarding the Post article, my first impression was that the author was at least as cruel as he seems to think the viewers are, if not more. He seemed to think we should just "leave the poor geeks alone and quit poking our fingers through the bars" IMHO.

    I watched the show with my husband and although there were some signs of nerdy behavior, I LOVED these guys. Loved them and would be friends with them, and would have dated some of them had I met them. I actually don't feel like NBC is being too mocking...they certainly allow the good sides of these guys to shine through.

    I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but when watching your average show involving several guys (B'ette, FLOM2) I found I had to try to get past the good looks in order to find the depth and lovable characteristics underneath - to find what I would connect with. In this case with Average Joe, the good stuff is right out there on display! The sexy dry sense of humor, the kindness, the good communication skills, whatever.

    Anyway, my two cents, but I'm actually VERY engaged in this show so far compared to the typical premiere.

    Nice to finally speak!

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