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  1. #21
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    Jonas strikes me as an intelligent person, eager to learn. I find it a pity that he never got a chance to actually go to school and study.

    He also seems smarter than the city-kids, who fall over their own words and can't formulate a decent argument.

  2. #22
    FORT Newbie libra2680's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cairon
    Jonas strikes me as an intelligent person, eager to learn. I find it a pity that he never got a chance to actually go to school and study.

    He also seems smarter than the city-kids, who fall over their own words and can't formulate a decent argument.

  3. #23
    "Amish In The City" JonasIsTheMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cairon
    Jonas strikes me as an intelligent person, eager to learn. I find it a pity that he never got a chance to actually go to school and study.

    He also seems smarter than the city-kids, who fall over their own words and can't formulate a decent argument.
    you are my new best friend for this post..i agree with you 100%. Jonas does seem like someone who is eager to learn. He stressed that back when they went out to lunch at that Cafe. He was talking about how he knew that a lot of Amish kids if they were given the opportunity to go on in school they could do well as doctors and lawyers...He probably has double the brain capacity of ANY of the city kids and he presents himself as a strong, intelligent, decent person. Unlike the city kids who continously whine and cry to get their way and voice their opinion...WAY TO SHOW THEM UP JONAS!
    "After all the backstabbing they've done, those PANSIES can't handle backstabbing themselves." - Jonas P. Kurtz

  4. #24
    Congrats Chip and Kim! Kai5925's Avatar
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    Oh, please.

    Jonas says that EVERY other culture is weird. But when the city kids disagree with the Amish ways (or even comments negatively about it), Jonas gets pissed.

    He's a hypocrite.
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  5. #25
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    hehe...I take it, Kai, that from your posts, you're firmly in the "City Kidz" camp?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by galliard
    hehe...I take it, Kai, that from your posts, you're firmly in the "City Kidz" camp?
    Not really. Ruth and Mose are two of my favorite cast members. I just REALLY don't like Jonas and Randy. But I don't like Meagen or Kevan either, so it doesn't really have to do with the whole "fued".
    Shows I'm Watching: The Real World/Road Rules Challenge: Battle of the Sexes 2, Survivor: Vanuatu, The Apprentice 2, The Real World: Philidelphia

  7. #27
    "Amish In The City" JonasIsTheMan's Avatar
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    yea Jonas does stay stuff is weird because its different to him. But he's never bad mouthed it...but still he looks at it with a different view..like with the Indian clothing..he said it was weird, but he found it comfortable and a lot of fun.
    "After all the backstabbing they've done, those PANSIES can't handle backstabbing themselves." - Jonas P. Kurtz

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai5925
    Oh, please.

    Jonas says that EVERY other culture is weird. But when the city kids disagree with the Amish ways (or even comments negatively about it), Jonas gets pissed.

    He's a hypocrite.
    He's not a hypocrite.

    To you the headhunters down in the Amazone will strike you as weird, because they live in a culture that has very little similairities with your own culture. Their collective background and their motivations for doing certain things in a particular manner might not fit into any category that is logical or reasonable within your culture. If you only have so much information you can easily say that another culture is weird, because you can't fathom their motivations, or even the creation of that other culture.

    You associate weird with negative emotions, to you it's judgemental in a negative way.

    Jonas was raised in a very closed environment, he has never had the opportunity to learn more about the world, while his cognitive abilities developped themselves he was confronted with a lack of challenge from his surroundings.
    Jonas might have focussed his thought-patterns in the same way that Mose has utilized his, by creating and inventing. But I suspect that Jonas' interest lie in a far more abstract plane than those of Mose, who, with his inventions, shows a very practical, focussed on physically creating something, attitude.

    The fact that you label Jonas as a hypocrite is remarkable, because in your eyes, from your cultural background, he probably is a hypocrite, he seems like an judgemental ignoramus from your perspective.

    But Jonas was raised in a completely different culture, we're raised with the idea of tolerance, Jonas was raised with a different set of ideals, imposed on him by a very strict religious group.

    I find it remarkable that Jonas is so eager to break free from his upbringing and is willing to learn more. It might be a rebellious streak, going against the wishes of his father because he can, but this is more, he's taking a very fundamental step away from his cultural upbringing by expressing his desire to study.
    The Amish are luddites, they almost fear technology, they shun further education and live life as close to how they did three hundred years ago. They're unwilling to change, you might say, unwilling to learn and develop on an academic level, so for Jonas to want to learn and develop on that level is a very big step away from the values and lessons he was raised with.

  9. #29
    Congrats Chip and Kim! Kai5925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cairon
    To you the headhunters down in the Amazone will strike you as weird, because they live in a culture that has very little similairities with your own culture. Their collective background and their motivations for doing certain things in a particular manner might not fit into any category that is logical or reasonable within your culture. If you only have so much information you can easily say that another culture is weird, because you can't fathom their motivations, or even the creation of that other culture.
    What are you talking about? You don't know me. For all you know I could be FROM the Amazon. Maybe that is what YOU do, but then I guess that would make you a hypocrite as well.

    I don't care how much information Jonas has. He still called them weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cairon
    You associate weird with negative emotions, to you it's judgemental in a negative way.
    And you associate the word "weird" with positive emotions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cairon
    Jonas was raised in a very closed environment, he has never had the opportunity to learn more about the world, while his cognitive abilities developped themselves he was confronted with a lack of challenge from his surroundings.
    So? Still a hypocrite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cairon
    Jonas might have focussed his thought-patterns in the same way that Mose has utilized his, by creating and inventing. But I suspect that Jonas' interest lie in a far more abstract plane than those of Mose, who, with his inventions, shows a very practical, focussed on physically creating something, attitude.
    And how does have to do with ANYTHING we were just talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cairon
    The fact that you label Jonas as a hypocrite is remarkable, because in your eyes, from your cultural background, he probably is a hypocrite, he seems like an judgemental ignoramus from your perspective.
    How exactly is me labeling as a hypocrite "remarkable"? Of course it's from my perspective, who else's opinion would it be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cairon
    But Jonas was raised in a completely different culture, we're raised with the idea of tolerance, Jonas was raised with a different set of ideals, imposed on him by a very strict religious group.
    ...And? That just means he was RAISED as a hypocrite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cairon
    I find it remarkable that Jonas is so eager to break free from his upbringing and is willing to learn more. It might be a rebellious streak, going against the wishes of his father because he can, but this is more, he's taking a very fundamental step away from his cultural upbringing by expressing his desire to study.
    Yeah. Study for SCHOOL. Again, this has nothing to do with what we were talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cairon
    The Amish are luddites, they almost fear technology, they shun further education and live life as close to how they did three hundred years ago. They're unwilling to change, you might say, unwilling to learn and develop on an academic level, so for Jonas to want to learn and develop on that level is a very big step away from the values and lessons he was raised with.
    Um.....I don't care what the Amish do. He calls other people's cultures weird, yet gets mad when people calls his culture weird.

    THEREFORE, HE IS A HYPOCRITE. I really don't understand how you can try to get around it. I don't care if his family rasied him as a hypocrite, he is still a hypocrite. It's obvious that you like Jonas, but stop being so biased.

    I'm sorry if that sounded rude but your post was very obviously biased and didn't really have good points.

    EDIT: Jonasistheman did have a good point, though. She said that he eventually adjusts to the culture. That makes more sense to me, I guess.
    Shows I'm Watching: The Real World/Road Rules Challenge: Battle of the Sexes 2, Survivor: Vanuatu, The Apprentice 2, The Real World: Philidelphia

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai5925
    What are you talking about? You don't know me. For all you know I could be FROM the Amazon. Maybe that is what YOU do, but then I guess that would make you a hypocrite as well.
    It was an example, you took it far too literal. An example of how something from a radically different culture than your own will strike you as weird.

    Also I never claimed that I wasn't a hypocrite, I never claimed to be one. In my eyes all cultures are alike. One is different from the other, but unlike you I acknowledge the differences between those cultures and that those differences lead to a non-understanding. We are the product of our upbringing, we filter the world through our cultural glasses, the ones grafted on us while being raised in a culture.

    I don't care how much information Jonas has. He still called them weird.
    Is every child a hypocrit then? People call something weird because they don't understand it. It matters a great deal how much information Jonas has, because information is a cornerstone of understanding. Without enough information and only one cultural point of view you could call your neighbour weird.

    And you associate the word "weird" with positive emotions?
    I associate the word "weird" with the context in which it was given. To me the word is neither positive or negative, it can take either shape, or neither, the word itself is neutral, a synonym is strange, but weird is more popular, strange and weird are both words tied to your upbringing and your opinion.

    Culture plays a part in how you as a person use weird.

    So? Still a hypocrite.
    Ignorance, not hypocracy. Also, calling something weird isn't the same as calling something stupid, or redundant, or lame. If you call Jonas a hypocrit for using the word weird and at the same time defending his culture from people who throw a barrage of other words at it, mostly negative, than you don't really understand the what a hypocrit is.

    Jonas would be one if he called the Hindu faith and followers stupid freaks, and defended his own faith and culture from the city-kids calling the Amish stupid freaks.

    And how does have to do with ANYTHING we were just talking about?
    Before your remark, the most prominent topic was Jonas' desire to study. He expresses the wish to study quite often, it's an integral part of who he is.

    How exactly is me labeling as a hypocrite "remarkable"? Of course it's from my perspective, who else's opinion would it be?
    an example, again you take things too literal. You call someone a hypocrit, based on your own cultural upbringing. Whatever judgement you pass on someone else is born from your upbringing, your own personal culture.
    You call someone a hypocrit because he says that another culture is weird, while defending his own culture, that's mighty judgemental, and not at all tolerant.

    ...And? That just means he was RAISED as a hypocrite.
    He wasn't raised a hypocrite, he was raised in a sheltered community. His oppinions are a result of that upbringing.

    I fear that you haven't understood the point I'm making here.

    Yeah. Study for SCHOOL. Again, this has nothing to do with what we were talking about.
    You think you learn only facts and figures in school?



    Um.....I don't care what the Amish do. He calls other people's cultures weird, yet gets mad when people calls his culture weird.

    THEREFORE, HE IS A HYPOCRITE. I really don't understand how you can try to get around it. I don't care if his family rasied him as a hypocrite, he is still a hypocrite. It's obvious that you like Jonas, but stop being so biased.
    I'm not biased. I'm seeing the world through a different perspective than you. In my eyes there are differences between the groups and the individuals. I do not generalize in the same way you do. I acknowledge the difference between me and Jonas and the difference between culture.

    Me calling Jonas a hypocrit is like me calling a child a hypocrit. A child, like Jonas, lacks information, the information that I've gained through my years in school and being around other cultures.
    The experience is what Jonas lacks, and I'm not going to accuse him of being ignorant when he clearly wants to learn and develop himself. I'm not going to call him a hypocrite because the guy isn't even in a position to be a hypocrite. You judge him as if he's one of us, but he isn't.

    I see him as an alien, something different from me, his entire background is different from me. If Jonas would have had the same upbringing as I received, in the same culture, then I would call him a hypocrit. But as it stands now, the boy is on the same level as a fourteen-year-old, raised in a very closed community, with a very dominant religious influence.

    He is ignorant of the world around him, but he's willing to learn, he's willing to see things from a different perspective, because he never has had to look at things from a different perspective, he's spent his entire life in one room, and now he's discovering the rest of the house, for chrissakes, give the kid some room to breathe, he doesn't know any better, but at least he's willing to learn, which is more than I can say about the others in that house.

    I'm sorry if that sounded rude but your post was very obviously biased and didn't really have good points.
    And yours did?

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