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Thread: Who Do You Think Shocked Fox/19E The Most?

  1. #61
    FORT Regular
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    Jul 2003
    That explanation does not hold water.

    First of all, there has been no suspense during the entire run of this show. Build-up to the finale? Everyone knows AJ or Chantel will get in next week. In AI2 it was obvious by the second week that it was a two-man contest between Clay & Ruben.

    As far as keeping the results confidential, they could just show the vote totals on the results show AFTER everyone has voted. They already announce to the world which three kids got the most votes. I'm sure being one of the kids who got the least votes every single week isn't too much fun either.

    Keeping the results secret on AI makes even less sense since everyone knows who got the least votes who was in the bottom three. Also, being the lone person voted off can't be a real thrill.

    If they showed vote totals it may spur fans on to vote even more for their favorites.

    Sorry, they can explain all they want. They haven't come up with any reasonable explanation for hiding the results.

  2. #62
    FORT Fogey zippy's Avatar
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    Apr 2003
    Pacific Northwest
    Quote Originally Posted by stlouischili
    From the start, they have never shown vote totals on any of their shows, which clearly indicates that they have something to hide.
    I've seen the vote totals for the German version of the show. I wonder if Germany has a law that required them to reveal the votes.

  3. #63
    The race is back! John's Avatar
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    Sep 2002
    On the mat
    If the voting was accurate they would show the results. End of story. Checkmate.
    I *really* hate that I have to have this argument over and over every time Fox runs a show where people can vote.

    That's complete BS, and you know it. "Checkmate" doesn't make it any less wrong.

  4. #64
    FORT Fanatic
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    Jun 2003
    Virginia (but raised in SoCal!)
    One final thing: was I the only one shocked that AJs couldn't advance at least one African-American power/soul type female singer?
    No, I've wondered this issue myself. I think that's why I was THAT shocked Kristiania didn't make it. Of course she wasn't African American, but definitely your token in a group of blondes and brunettes.

    I think at the beginning, they were really pushing for AJ to be their token minority.

    They definitely wanted the sisters, and they made that clear from the beginning. The way they introduce them everytime lets you know that--even from the auditions, they always wanted you to question "would they be separated." They announced Taylor last in the semi's to add suspense--who would turn away when there were two teary-eyed sisters holding the Good Luck carebear? When Tori was sent back to her seat--they made it clear before they sent her that it was "a Thompson"...

    I'm betting they were completely prepared for Tori not Taylor to win week one and didn't really think Taylor would make it in at all.
    Which is something I knew from the semi's, but have kept to myself. A lot of people don't understand how it happened, which is when rumors of "it's fixed!" first started flying. Let me explain.

    I think Tami's comment about Taylor was overplayed, and is the only reason Taylor is in this group. I think Taylor is a great singer, but do you really think I voted her in first because she wowed me that week? Absolutely not. I, like the majority of older viewers, thought it through. I knew I didn't want to see these sister's separated, because to a child--it may not really mean anything--but once you get a little older, it's kinda disheartening.

    But older, adult (females) also knew Tori would get in, no doubt and no questions asked--we knew that in the semi's. She's good, she's got the "cute" factor, and the younger viewers knew that. Fox did not think Tori and Taylor would be #1 and #2 in this group. Fox thought Tori would be #1 and Taylor would be one of the last ones--#4 or #5. I think Fox knew for sure Chantel and AJ would be in before Taylor. And they wanted them to. They wanted to build up the suspense.

    Fox never thought that their fans would go for the underdog first. And I think it ruined a lot of their marketing plans, and I think it may have had an effect on their ratings as well. People who found this show channeling surfing have no need to watch it anymore--the element of suspense I think Fox had in mind from show 1--gone.

    Voting people in, instead of off, worked in Fox's favor--and worked against them as well.

    I also think Chantel was pushed from the start, and I'm not going to be surprised if she has a blockbuster of a performance Tuesday night--I'll be shocked if she doesn't to tell you the truth. The way they promoted her from the auditions--"Bias aside, Chantel Kohl's dad has reason to be proud..." or something similar to that. I think they're a bit nervous that she is not in the group as of now.

    But honestly? I don't think Fox wanted Chantel because of her talent--because Lucy has one up on Chantel in that category. They wanted Chantel because she's got the crying dad who, at first, just smiled and made your heart melt (and now, is kinda annoying). Imagine the amount of press that man alone could grant this group...

    That's why Fox showed the entire "proud parents" segment. They wanted to make sure you knew Todd Kohl.

    To me, Chauncey was a shock, but one they dealt with and had no problem dealing with. What did Fox want in AJ? Three things. He was supposed to be their token--a male, he's a minority. And they expected him to add (a very juvenile) "hearthrob"--what did they get in Chauncey? A minority male who is a cute. Heartthrob, cute--Fox was happy either way.

    That being said, I don't think they expected Lucy to be in this group. I think they thought Chantel would have Lucy's spot. I think Fox expected viewers to overlook Lucy's talent and age--and question how she fit into this group. Thus, save her from looking extremely out of place--and think--she'll go somewhere one day anyways.

    I also think Fox is sly, and put children in this competition that they knew had no chance in hell. Case in point: Lauren Klena, and that unforgettable rendition of love. And why would Fox do that? They wanted to make sure they got exactly who they wanted.

    Did it work? No, I don't think Jordan was supposed to make it past the semi's--I think she took Canyon's place. Fox didn't care if he could sing or not, they knew most older people associated him with--Leif Garret. That, in itself, added a nice bonus for them. Sex appeal.

    But again, they forgot that all their viewers aren't pre-teens. There's nothing sexy (to me) about an 11 year old.

    Spare me.

    And thus, Canyon didn't get in.

    I also think a lot of people are missing the point of this show. There's all this talk of "will this group last" and other questions about their success. I highly doubt it was ever an issue. That's why I never thought Fox or 19E gave a d*mn what happened on this show. No matter how bad the ratings, guess what they're getting?

    Money (and a nice filler until American Idol 3).

    And that's all they wanted. This show was not created to make a mega-superstar group. If they do, it'll be an added incentive for perhaps making another season.

    Do I think they're expecting a hit group?

    Absolutely not, and I really don't think they care.

    I don't see this show coming back for a second season. This show has been a marketable nightmare.
    Last edited by Dani321; 08-03-2003 at 02:05 AM.
    Congratulations Tori and Taylor!

  5. #65
    Dani321, nice post and well thought out. That is why I hope anyone except AJ or Chantel makes the final spot, which would make the show seem legit in the eyes of people who are speculating it may be rigged.

    If AJ or Chantel does make the final spot though, then the "fixed" speculations will continue or even be greater for those who already think it's rigged.

  6. #66
    I'm thinking that they have no intention of marketing the band here but instead will take them right to Europe where S-Club took off. Europeans seem to be less forgiving when it comes to odd ball groups. Also many of the execs are British, I'm sure they would like an excuse to go home for a while.

  7. #67
    Hillary 08! lamonte's Avatar
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    Jul 2003
    San Diego, CA
    Thats exactly what I think they are going to do showbizkidz. Its really a shame though, for the people who tuned in to see talent and see a good group formed, but like Dani321 said FOX doesn't give a flying pickle about the quality of the group they just wanted to put a little more money in their pockets. I personally would want to see what the group is going to do after the show ends, though I dont like all the members in the group(the sisters) I dont want them to just break up and be forgotten, It would be a waste of great talent to put Lucy, AJ and Morgan in a group that FOX planned to have no real success. Its a shame and Im upset, but hey Im just a kid, what can I do?
    "Be confident in your abilities, be true to your beliefs, work hard for your benefit, accept your responsibilities, and never settle on being average."

  8. #68
    I think I have a clue 1083's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    New York

    wait, it all makes sense now

    Having finally wandered over to S Club 8 website I finally get a clue what AJs was supposed to be all about. Dang, 19E is pretty much a painnt by numbers marketing machine and they obviously thought they would simply replicates S club's REAL success in the UK here and have a HUGEEEEEEEE moneymaker - that's why they had a group, not one single champion and why they keep having the incipient group perform S Club 8 songs.

    Boy did they screw up BAD BAD BAD. Obvoiously I have never seen the S Club 8 "formation" shows which apparently took place just about two years ago, but just from the (painfully bad) website I can already tell where they went wrong on AJs

    1. Five is not enuff - The SC8 was for 7 members, not five, which seems like the perfect number (they ended up with 8, but that's a different story). If you do anything like a competent job picking the original 20 you are guarenteed a decent distribution by gender, ethnicity, vocal skills, looks and demographic appeal - at this point the group would add AJ the AJ (sorry couldn't resist the bad joke), Chantel and probably Danielle - forming a fairly decent group that was still female top heavy but featured real talent. Instead for reasons unknown they went with five- just another bad decision by a production team that was lost from day one.

    2. It's not about the adults you dolts- The British approach clearlyyyyyyyy made it all about the kids from the first, here they NEVER did. Someone decided on the bone head strategy of highlighting the stage parents so you end up seeing almost more of mom then you do of the kid in the audition shows. This backfired completely when it appears that they had no stage parent moments to show on the Semis shows so you get these pointless interviews with parents who are too nervous and uptight to say anything interesting. One huge element of their "marketing strategy" died right there. There is almost NO interaction with the kids, Ryan says two sentences of meaningless nothing to them and then we hear what the adult judges have to say - thus airtime has been dominated by Deborah Gibson,Glady Knight and Ryan Seacrest; yeah that's gonna sell some records for sure. . They probably should have had one male and one female judge period and found someone with more demo appeal (not that Ryan has ANY) to those over 12 to be the host. Maybe say a comedian who could tell truly funny jokes and command the camera and make the viewership truly enjoy themselves - imagine if they got Margaret Cho. I'd watch just to see that!

    3. Two groups of ten is not the way to make yen - They probably should have had two groups of eight and made the two Semis selections show two hours each and had short vids of each competiter and talked with them for a minute or so BEFORE they performed so people felt like they knew these kids from the start and would invest in the show. It really could have been something of a marketing commodity because you get families sitting around the TV every week arguing who should get in- it sure worked for STAR SEARCH. Ten kids means that there was too much time taken by too short of songs and wayyyyy too much time taken up by the judges- I also think that it made it too hard to keep track of who was who and to remember how well each person sang- it's no accident that the people who sang later statistically advanced more often than those who sang earlier in the semis.

    4. Nine is not fine - the British group from what I can tell never had members younger than 11 and maybe even 12 depending on when it was chosen. When you look at the publicity still of the group that's on the top page of the website they look pretty good together- 2 years age difference at most, relatively same heights and weights,etc. They LOOK like a pop group, I can see why they are selling cd's at a pretty good clip (I think they have at least four above average selling singles to their credit). The US version allowed much younger performers I think (as someone else suggested) to get precious cute moments for the audition shows, not a bad idea at that stage but then........you get two adorable pre-teens with lots of pizzaz and ZERO vocal strength or depth in a group that is basically trying to be a carbon copy of a successful british TEEN group and they are 2/5 of the group, not 2/7, and they are the first two in forcing you to make two "vids" that TURN OFF the very demographics you are trying to sell too. You also have a group that will simply look bizarre when pictured together and nothing about seeing them pictured as a group yells out these are pop music stars , buy this single or you will miss out. Sweet, give whoever made this brilliant decision a big salary increase.

    5. Here's a hint, if you give the kids bad songs they sound bad- I am convinced whoever picked the songs (and they were OBVIOUSLY picked for the kids) has ZERO experience with kids before and has no ear at all for pairing young voices with what matches them. Let me just take Canyon as an example but you could pick almost any of the 20- they want the kid to get in because he starts the Semis with a fan base, he's obvious heart throb material and he kinda looks like what you think a white male pop star should look like. Fine, but the painful fact is the kid has almost no real singing experience and probably little time on any stage so you need to pick an EASY song that requires little vocal range, thats easily identifiable to the audience so the song itself and not his singing gets votes, one that lends itself to a pre-pubescent voice and will make him feel calm and confident when he sings .... Or you could choose a difficult signature 70's song that at least 30% of the audience hasn't ever heard before done by a truly talented but somewhat gravel voiced singer who sold the song because he knew how to put feeling and nuance (two of the most sophisticated and difficult things to ask of a teen singer) into what it is musically not the most upbeat song or exciting song made. He was INCREDIBLY nervous, never found what little voice he has and bombed badly - gee, who knew. On the female side consider Kristina Debarge, a fairly good looking and good sounding kid who lacks a ton of stage presence and needs a song that will force her to show personality. She seems to have vocal range and good pitch so you have a relatively wide range of choices - it seems like the two best ideas are a power song with a couple runs that make her get the diva votes or the yang to AJ's ying and dress her up somewhat exotically (a GOOD exotic) and have her sing latin soul - both display vocal talent and require some personality to sell, but don't demand any moving around ... Or you could choose a fairly vanilla song that I'm betting most of you don't even remember the title of, dress her in nothing that helps her demonstrate personality,put her on early and show off little of her vocal skills. Stunningly she didn't get enuff votes. The musical selections time and again betrayed the kids, putting them out of their element and did NOTHING for the audience.

    I am more convinced than ever that AJ 2 would do very well if they had anything like competent producers.
    everybody has the right to speak their mind, so don't shoot me if I speak mine- ray davies

  9. #69
    1083 said:
    The fact that Tori in particular gets little camera time and solo action in group performances tells you all you need to know about the fact that talent wise they aren't high on 19's opinion list.


    nice one 1083...

    They would have had a nice group, assuming I have to pick out of the top ten, if they chose:

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