Bo Bice - Page 144

razorbacker · 07-11-2005, 09:12 AM

Hey Bell, I think you are right about the tactics with Bo & Carrie. These two are different artists in different genres than any of the previous contestants & I foresee 19E taking new paths with them. Maybe 19E has learned something from the past seasons & will let the careers of these two progress a little more naturally rather than pushing the Pop star issue so much. I haven't followed Bo nearly so much, but I do hope he makes a go of his career. He certainly deserves it. Carrie, made her debut in Nashville & even sang at the Grand Ole Opry. She has a Nashville publicist, & has held meetings with Nashville producers & song writers. These two will do well in their chosen areas if 19E backs off & lets it happen. If they don't they will lose them to other companies & other contracts just as they have seen with Clay & Kelly.

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Grisabella · 07-11-2005, 11:32 AM

I left out another big reason Bo didn't initially make as big a splash as Carrie:

Bo spent two critical weeks shortly after the AI finale tending to himself, friends and family, and -- oh, yeah -- GETTING MARRIED, instead of continuing on the talk show circuit! I didn't follow Kelly or Fantasia's post AI talk show gigs, but both Ruben and Clay were on almost twice as many TV talk shows in May and June, 2003, as Bo was this year, partly because Bo spent 12 days back home in Alabama out of the spotlight except for a few radio interviews in June. That's prime promo time he devoted to his personal life instead of hyping his single. (And that's part of what I love about Bo!)

Bell, one reason "nobody buys singles nowadays" is that you can't find them except online. Retail stores like Fred Meyer (Pacific Northwest chain where I bought Clay's single in 2003) and Circuit City no longer carry singles at all.

The other big reason is probably the increasing availability of individual songs at iTunes and other legal, paid download sites. It costs half as much to get the 2 "sides" of a single at iTunes as it does to buy the CD. And "Vehicle" wasn't available at iTunes till almost the end of the debut week for Bo's single, so he didn't get much help from paid internet downloads when it came to the Billboard Singles Sales chart. (You have to buy both sides for it to count. There's a separate internet download chart now for paid downloads of individual songs.)

This is also why comparing the chart positions of Kelly, Clay, Ruben, Diana, and Fantasia to those of Carrie and Bo is a bit "apples to oranges." I believe paid internet downloads did not count towards the Billboard chart positions of Kelly's, Clay's, Ruben's and Clay's first singles. I'm not sure when they started counting towards the Singles Sales Chart -- sometime in 2004, I think -- but I'm pretty sure they did not count towards the Hot 100. And now the Billboard charts formulas have been revised, including the addition of a "Hot 100 Airplay" and "Pop 100 Airplay" chart for the first time. I'm not sure how high any of the previous "Idols" would have placed on the airplay-only Billboard charts with their first singles, but I doubt any of them would have debuted in the top 20 - maybe not even the top 40.

(Interestingly, it was Carey (Mariah), not Carrie (Underwood) who knocked Bo's "Inside Your Heaven" down to #2 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart for its debut week.)

Grisabella · 07-11-2005, 11:56 AM

Bell and razorback, I certainly hope you are right about how RMG*/19M plan to nurture the careers of Bo and Carrie, but in Bo's case I'm a bit skeptical. I think Clive Davis at RCA does have big plans for Bo, and we've already learned of collaborations with Richie Sambora (of Bon Jovi), Carlos Santana, and Willie Nelson (at a concert where Willie was performing). But having Bo record "Inside Your Heaven" and producing the single the way it was done was not, IMO, giving Bo a good start. That single isn't the kind of song or the kind of sound that won Bo so many fans on AI, nor is it the SugarMoney type music so many of Bo's fans love. I have to say that, as big a fan I am of Bo, I bought a copy of the single but don't really feel like playing it very much -- especially IYH. (I play lots of Bo's songs from AI, from Purge, from Recipe For Flavor, and from his recent TV appearances all the time, but I don't like the recorded version of IYH as much as most of these other songs.) I really hope Bo gets to do more of his own thing on his first RCA album.

*The parent corporation for RCA, Arista, and J-Records.

Uncle David · 07-11-2005, 02:16 PM

I think everyone is missing a big point here. IMHO I don’t think Bo is as driven as other AI finalists. If Bo fans are looking for him to compete with Carrie, I think they’re in for a letdown.

Grisa eluded to it earlier, I think you can expect this laid back southern gentleman to put family and friends as well as his own happiness above the quest for glory.

razorbacker · 07-11-2005, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grisabella

Bell and razorback, I certainly hope you are right about how RMG*/19M plan to nurture the careers of Bo and Carrie, but in Bo's case I'm a bit skeptical. I think Clive Davis at RCA does have big plans for Bo, and we've already learned of collaborations with Richie Sambora (of Bon Jovi), Carlos Santana, and Willie Nelson (at a concert where Willie was performing). But having Bo record "Inside Your Heaven" and producing the single the way it was done was not, IMO, giving Bo a good start. That single isn't the kind of song or the kind of sound that won Bo so many fans on AI, nor is it the SugarMoney type music so many of Bo's fans love. I have to say that, as big a fan I am of Bo, I bought a copy of the single but don't really feel like playing it very much -- especially IYH. (I play lots of Bo's songs from AI, from Purge, from Recipe For Flavor, and from his recent TV appearances all the time, but I don't like the recorded version of IYH as much as most of these other songs.) I really hope Bo gets to do more of his own thing on his first RCA album.

*The parent corporation for RCA, Arista, and J-Records.

I think the one thing that will be a limiting factor to Bo's success & the one thing I have shouted loud against in Carries case is the participation of Clive Davis. Clive has said that Bo would be doing a pop album with a rock edge. I agree that isn't what Bo is all about & I hope to see a change in direction here. There has been little mention of Clive being involved with the production of Carrie's album & articles have even pointed toward a Nashville producer. I truly hope he isn't involved with her at all & only on an extremely limited basis with Bo. 19E needs to rethink the continued participation of Mr. Davis with all of their artists & not just Bo & Carrie.

Uncle David · 07-11-2005, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razorbacker

Clive has said that Bo would be doing a pop album with a rock edge. I agree that isn't what Bo is all about & I hope to see a change in direction here.

I can't agree with that one. The songs that caused us to fall in love with Bo, with rare exception, were not 'rock' songs. They were primarily 'pop' songs that Bo put his own edge to. That's what I hope to find on his upcoming CD.

bell · 07-12-2005, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pillbeam

Thanks for the video clip. I enjoyed Bo's performance of Gavin DeGraw's "I Don't Want to Be" song a great deal. By the way, DeGraw's CD "Chariot" is awesome. Check out the guy Bo was smart enough to cover: http://www.gavindegraw.com/

degraw's live set of chariot is way better than the studio version. way better. i really didn't care for his i don't want to be but loved the live version better. and belief is awesome.

but yeah. bo was smart enough to cover this song for the top 40 week...not only because its by a great musician, its also well known by many teens due to being the theme song for one tree hill. gosh...i got so tired after hearing i love bo cause he sang the one tree hill song. made me hate it for a while.

Grisabella · 07-12-2005, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle David

...The songs that caused us to fall in love with Bo, with rare exception, were not 'rock' songs. They were primarily 'pop' songs that Bo put his own edge to. ...

It depends on which fans you're talking about. There were many, many Clay fans who first discovered him on AI2 and then discovered and fell in love with his pre-Idol CDs -- especially songs like "I Know How The River Feels," "Still The One," and "Not Supposed To Love You Any More." There were also many Constantine fans who discovered him on AI4 and then bought the "Pray For The Soul Of Betty" CD, which generally sounded very different from the AI Constantine. Similarly, a lot of people who were intrigued by Bo on AI4 then dowloaded songs from "Exgratia" (Purge) and bought Bo's SugarMoney CD "Recipe For Flavor," in addition to downloading his Alamaba live performances with Skynard and SugarMoney. These fans seem to be fans of Bo's rock, funk, and blues songs more than they are of his "rock-edged pop songs" a la AI4. Plus, I don't think "Inside Your Heaven" is anything like even the mellower pre-Idol songs Bo wrote and/or recorded. It's hardly "rock-edged pop," IMO.

Did Bo gain some new fans via AI4 -- fans who generally don't like rock, funk, and blues? I think so. But I still recall the powerful impact Bo's "Whipping Post," "Spinning Wheel," "Remedy" (the reprise), "For The Love Of Money," "Vehicle," and "I Don't Want To Be" had on AI4. I think it was that kind of song where he really stood out from the crowd.

When all's said and done, much as I love hearing Bo sing mellow songs like "I'll Be," "In A Dream," and "Time In A Bottle," I have to say that the recorded version of "Inside Your Heaven" kind of leaves me thinking "Meh."

Uncle David · 07-12-2005, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grisabella

But I still recall the powerful impact Bo's "Whipping Post," "Spinning Wheel," "Remedy" (the reprise), "For The Love Of Money," "Vehicle," and "I Don't Want To Be" had on AI4. I think it was that kind of song where he really stood out from the crowd.

Which is EXACTLY what I was referring to.

Whipping Post was the ‘rock’ exception. The rest were ‘pop’ or ‘funk/soul’ tunes.

Grisabella · 07-13-2005, 01:29 PM

It's a matter of semantics. "Rock" and "pop" are broad categories that overlap, but I think most people would put songs like "Remedy," "Vehicle," "Satisfaction," "For The Love Of Money," and "I Don't Want To Be" (Bo's rendition) in the "rock" category more than "pop." As for "soul" music, that category includes a lot of slow ballads.

My point is that I think where Bo usually wowed the audience was when he was using his growly, edgy rock voice on a song with a powerful rhythm backup (and not the bouncy rhythms of Madonna and Britney Spears) and belting it out -- not so much songs like "Long, Long Road," "Heaven," "Inside Your Heaven," "Great Day To Be Alive," or the group numbers like "When You Tell Me That You Love Me," "Bridge Over Troubled Water," "He Ain't Heavy," "You Can Shine," etc. (Bo's "In A Dream" was an exception, because doing it a cappella was such a gutsy move and the dramatic lighting helped make it a memorable moment. But had he done something like that in the semi-finals, I doubt it would have been received anywhere near as well as "Whipping Post" was.)

FWIW, I'd say Bo's take on "Corner Of The Sky" is a prime example of bringing a "rock edge" to a ballad (in this case, a show tune, but not all that distinguishable in structure from many "pop" ballads). I liked that performance (except for the slightly flat penultimate note), but I seem to have been in the small minority. Anyway, I'd hardly call that one of Bo's best AI songs.

Whatever you may call it -- Southern rock, classic rock, funk, blues -- I really think Bo is more outstanding on the kinds of songs he did before AI (with Purge and SugarMoney) than on the kinds of stuff you hear from Maroon 5, Train, 3 Doors Down, Hoobastank, and others that I think of as "rock-edged pop."

That said, Bo's eclecticism and versatility are a lot of what makes me a fan. His original song "Changing For The Better" is what I'd call "country/folk," and his other compositions and covers range from slow blues to funk to Southern rock to slow ballads to power ballads. He can do many genres credibly, but I'm still most impressed when he uses his lower register and belts and growls it out.

07-11-2005, 11:32 AM	#1432
Grisabella On My Way Here Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,328	I left out another big reason Bo didn't initially make as big a splash as Carrie: Bo spent two critical weeks shortly after the AI finale tending to himself, friends and family, and -- oh, yeah -- GETTING MARRIED, instead of continuing on the talk show circuit! I didn't follow Kelly or Fantasia's post AI talk show gigs, but both Ruben and Clay were on almost twice as many TV talk shows in May and June, 2003, as Bo was this year, partly because Bo spent 12 days back home in Alabama out of the spotlight except for a few radio interviews in June. That's prime promo time he devoted to his personal life instead of hyping his single. (And that's part of what I love about Bo!) Bell, one reason "nobody buys singles nowadays" is that you can't find them except online. Retail stores like Fred Meyer (Pacific Northwest chain where I bought Clay's single in 2003) and Circuit City no longer carry singles at all. The other big reason is probably the increasing availability of individual songs at iTunes and other legal, paid download sites. It costs half as much to get the 2 "sides" of a single at iTunes as it does to buy the CD. And "Vehicle" wasn't available at iTunes till almost the end of the debut week for Bo's single, so he didn't get much help from paid internet downloads when it came to the Billboard Singles Sales chart. (You have to buy both sides for it to count. There's a separate internet download chart now for paid downloads of individual songs.) This is also why comparing the chart positions of Kelly, Clay, Ruben, Diana, and Fantasia to those of Carrie and Bo is a bit "apples to oranges." I believe paid internet downloads did not count towards the Billboard chart positions of Kelly's, Clay's, Ruben's and Clay's first singles. I'm not sure when they started counting towards the Singles Sales Chart -- sometime in 2004, I think -- but I'm pretty sure they did not count towards the Hot 100. And now the Billboard charts formulas have been revised, including the addition of a "Hot 100 Airplay" and "Pop 100 Airplay" chart for the first time. I'm not sure how high any of the previous "Idols" would have placed on the airplay-only Billboard charts with their first singles, but I doubt any of them would have debuted in the top 20 - maybe not even the top 40. (Interestingly, it was Carey (Mariah), not Carrie (Underwood) who knocked Bo's "Inside Your Heaven" down to #2 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart for its debut week.) __________________ Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. §;-D Last edited by Grisabella; 07-11-2005 at 11:44 AM.

07-11-2005, 11:56 AM	#1433
Grisabella On My Way Here Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,328	Bell and razorback, I certainly hope you are right about how RMG/19M plan to nurture the careers of Bo and Carrie, but in Bo's case I'm a bit skeptical. I think Clive Davis at RCA does have big plans for Bo, and we've already learned of collaborations with Richie Sambora (of Bon Jovi), Carlos Santana, and Willie Nelson (at a concert where Willie was performing). But having Bo record "Inside Your Heaven" and producing the single the way it was done was not, IMO, giving Bo a good start. That single isn't the kind of song or the kind of sound that won Bo so many fans on AI, nor is it the SugarMoney type music so many of Bo's fans love. I have to say that, as big a fan I am of Bo, I bought a copy of the single but don't really feel like playing it very much -- especially IYH. (I play lots of Bo's songs from AI, from Purge, from Recipe For Flavor, and from his recent TV appearances all the time, but I don't like the recorded version of IYH as much as most of these other songs.) I really hope Bo gets to do more of his own thing on his first RCA album. The parent corporation for RCA, Arista, and J-Records. __________________ Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. §;-D

07-13-2005, 01:29 PM	#1440
Grisabella On My Way Here Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,328	It's a matter of semantics. "Rock" and "pop" are broad categories that overlap, but I think most people would put songs like "Remedy," "Vehicle," "Satisfaction," "For The Love Of Money," and "I Don't Want To Be" (Bo's rendition) in the "rock" category more than "pop." As for "soul" music, that category includes a lot of slow ballads. My point is that I think where Bo usually wowed the audience was when he was using his growly, edgy rock voice on a song with a powerful rhythm backup (and not the bouncy rhythms of Madonna and Britney Spears) and belting it out -- not so much songs like "Long, Long Road," "Heaven," "Inside Your Heaven," "Great Day To Be Alive," or the group numbers like "When You Tell Me That You Love Me," "Bridge Over Troubled Water," "He Ain't Heavy," "You Can Shine," etc. (Bo's "In A Dream" was an exception, because doing it a cappella was such a gutsy move and the dramatic lighting helped make it a memorable moment. But had he done something like that in the semi-finals, I doubt it would have been received anywhere near as well as "Whipping Post" was.) FWIW, I'd say Bo's take on "Corner Of The Sky" is a prime example of bringing a "rock edge" to a ballad (in this case, a show tune, but not all that distinguishable in structure from many "pop" ballads). I liked that performance (except for the slightly flat penultimate note), but I seem to have been in the small minority. Anyway, I'd hardly call that one of Bo's best AI songs. Whatever you may call it -- Southern rock, classic rock, funk, blues -- I really think Bo is more outstanding on the kinds of songs he did before AI (with Purge and SugarMoney) than on the kinds of stuff you hear from Maroon 5, Train, 3 Doors Down, Hoobastank, and others that I think of as "rock-edged pop." That said, Bo's eclecticism and versatility are a lot of what makes me a fan. His original song "Changing For The Better" is what I'd call "country/folk," and his other compositions and covers range from slow blues to funk to Southern rock to slow ballads to power ballads. He can do many genres credibly, but I'm still most impressed when he uses his lower register and belts and growls it out. __________________ Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. §;-D

07-11-2005, 09:12 AM	#1431
razorbacker FORT Fogey Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,050	Hey Bell, I think you are right about the tactics with Bo & Carrie. These two are different artists in different genres than any of the previous contestants & I foresee 19E taking new paths with them. Maybe 19E has learned something from the past seasons & will let the careers of these two progress a little more naturally rather than pushing the Pop star issue so much. I haven't followed Bo nearly so much, but I do hope he makes a go of his career. He certainly deserves it. Carrie, made her debut in Nashville & even sang at the Grand Ole Opry. She has a Nashville publicist, & has held meetings with Nashville producers & song writers. These two will do well in their chosen areas if 19E backs off & lets it happen. If they don't they will lose them to other companies & other contracts just as they have seen with Clay & Kelly.

07-11-2005, 02:16 PM	#1434
Uncle David I bwoke by doze! Join Date: May 2005 Location: On the edge Posts: 3,712	I think everyone is missing a big point here. IMHO I don’t think Bo is as driven as other AI finalists. If Bo fans are looking for him to compete with Carrie, I think they’re in for a letdown. Grisa eluded to it earlier, I think you can expect this laid back southern gentleman to put family and friends as well as his own happiness above the quest for glory.