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Thread: 5/25 Season Finale Part 1 *Spoilers*

  1. #171
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: 5/25 Season Finale Part 1 *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by pillbeam;3914592;
    Sorry, Lee can't use the sound system as an excuse for his bad notes. There were too many other contestants who had consistenly good pitch throughout the season.




    For Lee, this was not just "now and then." This was throughout entire songs, and it's not acceptable to me, even for a rocker.
    I think that is a really good point. Lee has been consistently off-key this entire time. But the judges never really called him on it. Crystal has had some issues too but the judges were usually too afraid to say anything and they opted for the "That wasn't my favorite but I still like you." As much as I would like to blame the contestants, aren't the judges supposed to notice these things.

    Neither of these contestants are "my type." That didn't stop me from enthusiastically voting for David Cook. I have a hunch that people will only vote for "their type" and that's why we've had the same-ish guy winning three years in a row (if Lee wins tonight). Stop voting for the same person every year, people! Vote for who sings well and vote for someone who is a true idol! Having said that, Crystal isn't remarkable either and she belongs singing in a subway in the 1990s. I wish we could start over from the top 24.

  2. #172
    Leaning Forward cantstopwatchin's Avatar
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    Re: 5/25 Season Finale Part 1 *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by TopCatDC;3914325;
    Don't hate on your reporter; s/he is just reporting what's out there. I said pretty much the same thing the other day in the Crystal / Lee Matchup thread. Also, yesterday we started discussing the disconnect of hearing the Crystal diss coming from women who would never in a million years want to themselves be judged by that standard (over in the Crystal Thread). Feel free to chime in to those discussions.
    No, no hating on the reporter. Just sad that what he was saying is true -- and I hate that people are so superficial when it comes to things like this; that they'd rather choose someone who can't sing in tune consistantly rather than pick the single mom whose back is covered in tattoos and wears her hair in dreads. That whole realization just makes me sad.
    "We must overcome the notion that we must be regular...it robs you of the chance to be extraordinary and leads you to the mediocre." - Uta Hagen

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  3. #173
    Ruben is "Soulful" pillbeam's Avatar
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    Re: 5/25 Season Finale Part 1 *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by TopCatDC;3914566;
    Bob Dylan, (to use the extreme example) has an even looser relationship with pitch than Lee - but he influenced a generation. Some people will give Mr. Dewyze some wiggle room to get the warm, sincere performance that they enjoy.
    Interesting reference to Dylan. I think Dylan and Leonard Cohen are the exceptions that prove the rule. They are such brilliant writers and sing with so much passion, vitality and intelligence, that you lose awareness of how odd their notes are. Plus, they are consistent throughout their songs with their inconsistency. Lee, on the other hand, is just a guy with a great voice sorta aiming to reach a vocal target and it hitting sometimes, and other times, not. More important, Lee seems totally unaware of the lyrics he is singing, unlike Dylan and Cohen, who are (properly) hyper aware of the lyrics.

    ----
    Last edited by pillbeam; 05-26-2010 at 01:08 PM.
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  4. #174
    FORT Fogey Bonbonlover's Avatar
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    Re: 5/25 Season Finale Part 1 *Spoilers*

    Once again I thought it was out of place for Crystal to chime in during the judges critique. She would have her time to thank Simon and all of the judges after Simon critiqued and Ryan asked for her thoughts. This is just one quirk of Crystal which really bothers me.
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  5. #175
    Leaning Forward cantstopwatchin's Avatar
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    Re: 5/25 Season Finale Part 1 *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Krom;3914492;
    Honestly, its Allen over Lambert all over again.

    It proves that Bland is where this show inevitably leads now. Really, from Taylor Hicks onwards its been true, with the possible exception of David Cook (and even he's a bit vanilla, for all that he's "a rocker").
    Sorry, have to disagree here. I started last season firmly entrenched in Adam's corner. But, as the season went on, I got tired of his consistently needing the theatrics (theatricality anyone-LOL!) and got tired of hearing Kris's just-as-good performances not get the due they deserved. And then Kris had a week where he completely outperformed Adam and the judges ignored him, so I switched camps. Not that I couldn't appreciate Adam and dislike his singing but I preferred Kris' more.

    This season, Crystal has been consistently good/great. Lee has had his moments but, dang, when he's off, he's OFF. (And for the person who recommended the mute button, I've fast-forwarded his voice off my screen more than a couple times this season!) Heck, last night I thought he forgot the words to one of the songs -- he backed away from the mike and there was a pause -- I had to replay it b/c it was so off. That's not someone who deserves to be an Idol!

    But back to your cookie cutter mold implication -- only speaking for myself but that's definitely not how I base my votes.
    "We must overcome the notion that we must be regular...it robs you of the chance to be extraordinary and leads you to the mediocre." - Uta Hagen

    “I don’t want my pain erased! As wretched as it is, I need my pain… It makes me who I am. It makes me Grumpy.” - Grumpy, Once Upon a Time

  6. #176
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    Re: 5/25 Season Finale Part 1 *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityLovesMe;3914609;
    ...Neither of these contestants are "my type." That didn't stop me from enthusiastically voting for David Cook...
    I would have been enthusiastic too, voting for Cook. Unfortunately, I only had numbers for Crystal and Lee.

  7. #177
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    Re: 5/25 Season Finale Part 1 *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by TopCatDC;3914644;
    I would have been enthusiastic too, voting for Cook. Unfortunately, I only had numbers for Crystal and Lee.
    Wait. Who is Lee? I thought it was Jason Castro vs. David Cook! No?

  8. #178
    FORT Fogey razorbacker's Avatar
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    Re: 5/25 Season Finale Part 1 *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by TopCatDC;3914325;
    Don't hate on your reporter; s/he is just reporting what's out there. I said pretty much the same thing the other day in the Crystal / Lee Matchup thread. Also, yesterday we started discussing the disconnect of hearing the Crystal diss coming from women who would never in a million years want to themselves be judged by that standard (over in the Crystal Thread). Feel free to chime in to those discussions.




    Why, yes! I was curious about that myself and happen to have those statistics at my fingertips (thanks to What Not to Sing for their meticulous record keeping!)

    In 8 seasons, the person who has sung second has won 6 times. Impressive! But is the reason they won BECAUSE they sang second? ("Correlation does not imply causation", if I remember my college statistics class correctly.)

    So, some more figures (performance scores are based on WNTS research and available in the database on their site):
    • Contestants who performed second and won (remember, there are six total), but also outperformed their competition at the finale: 3 (Kelly, Fantasia, and Taylor) So, these people had a good reason to win anyway.
    • Contestants who performed second and won, but outperformed their competition over the season as a whole: 4 (Kelly, Fantasia, Taylor, Jordin) These people also may have won anyway if people voted on who they liked over the whole season instead of just the finale performances.
    • Contestants who performed second and won, but tied the competition in the finale (there was no clear performance winner): 1 (Jordin)
    • Contestants who performed second and won, and did NOT outperform the competition at the finale and did not score higher in the season as a whole: 2 (Carrie, Kris)

    Those last two may be the strongest argument for going last in the finale, but I'm sure that I would be whacked by a certain Arkansas native (hopefully Razorbacker is still asleep) for even positing that Carrie and Kris won because they performed second on the last show. Everyone who lived through those two seasons knows that there was a strong competition and a whole lot of factors going on.

    So, I guess if I won the coin toss, I would probably choose to go second. But if I won, I don't think I'd want to have to attribute my success to that factor.
    The only quibble I have is your placement of Carrie. She was NEVER in danger of not winning that season. Still don't understand why people continue the disbelief that she was. Remember Amanda Avila? She was once quoted in an atricle where she stated that from the Top 12 onward, everyone knew they were singing for second place. And even Nigel Lythgoe confirmed the fact that the finale count was not close, if it was they would have announced it as so.

    So, I suggest a a new category, It didn't matter where they sang, they were going to win regardless. In this one I'd place bith Carrie & Fantasia.
    Last edited by razorbacker; 05-26-2010 at 01:51 PM.

  9. #179
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    Re: 5/25 Season Finale Part 1 *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by razorbacker;3914707;
    The only quibble I have is your placement of Carrie. She was NEVER in danger of not winning that season.
    I'm sure that is true. I wasn't watching that season; I've only seen it on Idol Rewind.

    I was speaking purely from the WNTS performance scores. And the fact is that Bo's run of performances were more highly regarded as a whole than Carrie's. (Assuming the accuracy of the WNTS team's work - which is the best we have.) Of course there are tons of other factors, but I don't have the time, interest, or ability to compile them. But reports from people like you who were there at the time can shed a lot of light on the intangibles. Thanks.

  10. #180
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    Re: 5/25 Season Finale Part 1 *Spoilers*

    I know What Not To Sing claims to be an authority but I don't think it is always accurate. I really think it measures something that doesn't really matter. Performance ratings isn't predictive of who you will vote for.
    Plus, Jordin totally wiped the floor with Blake. I don't think they tied. Blake had a stronger internet fanbase that season and I think that is reflected in these data. It seems like What not to sing is only a measure of what the internet fans think.

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