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Thread: 4/13 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

  1. #171
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: 4/13 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    First of all these kids are incredibly young. Historically they know who Elvis is, but I bet they don't have a collection of Elvis songs in their heads from which to choose which would best suit their voices and personalities.
    The first thing I would have done is to have given each one of them ELvis CDs and told them to listen to him, or at least gotten them together and played some of his songs.

    Next, why doesn't somebody give these kids some direction? I am not a musician, but as an educator, I recognized the principle that a previous poster ( who must be one) espoused when that person gave particular songs as being suited for particular contestants.
    Why couldn't somebody on the show have said to the contestant: "This is only a suggestion, but these are some examples of Elvis' songs that I think are particularly suited for your voice and style because....."
    "You might want to consider staying away from such and such because......"

    If each contestant is helped a little in this way, there is no undue favoritism shown. In addition, their efforts will be better showcased, and i will be better entertained - which ostensibly is at least part of the purpose for this show.
    If grace is an ocean, we're all drowning.

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  2. #172
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    Re: 4/13 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm MEL;3876918;
    I'm wondering about the contestants doing their own arrangements. I have a fairly strong musical background, but I couldn't do some of the arrangements, or re-arrangements, that we hear on the show. Sure, slow the tempo down, speed it up, take the key up or down, but some of the things the band does, in my opinion, are beyond what most of these contestants are able to come up with. If all these kids are THAT talented, they need to be using their skills somewhere besides American Idol!
    Point taken. Few contestants actually dictate their own arrangements. Kris Allen did. I wouldn't be surprised if Crystal and Casey have a strong hand in what the band does. The others probably come to Ricky Minor with a direction they want to go, and then Ricky works it out with them.

    I think the question that the original poster was asking was whether a contestant is in control of the arrangement - and the answer to that is yes. If the singer wants to start slow and then work up to a big finish, that's what the band does. No one is dictating to them what it has to sound like. Heck, Bo Bice even famously dismissed the band entirely and did one of his songs a capella.

    So, yes, the contestant has control over the arrangement. Whether that does them any good, however, will depend on how good they are at producing and / or arranging music. If they have no talent in that area then they will probably end up taking whatever the band comes up with.

  3. #173
    Ruben is "Soulful" pillbeam's Avatar
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    Re: 4/13 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloomers;3876987;
    Next, why doesn't somebody give these kids some direction? I am not a musician, but as an educator, I recognized the principle that a previous poster ( who must be one) espoused when that person gave particular songs as being suited for particular contestants. Why couldn't somebody on the show have said to the contestant: "This is only a suggestion, but these are some examples of Elvis' songs that I think are particularly suited for your voice and style because....."
    Actually, song choice is considered part of the contest that the singers are judged on. The music directors, including Ricky Minor and the contestants' vocal coaches, are specifically directed not to help the contestants with song choice. The producers may insist on that because song choice is so crucial to success on the show, and it might be unfair to give some folks a leg up on it behind the scenes.

    Typically, the more experienced performers are better with song choice. This year, Crystal, Casey and Mike are showing their chops pretty well in that area.
    --
    "Tons of surprises, but it wouldn't be 'American Idol' without it, would it?" Cowell told MTV News. "At the end of the day, I could go out and find 12 great singers, but that's kind of boring. The fact that there's people there who shouldn't be there makes it 'American Idol.' "

  4. #174
    FORT Fogey norealityhere's Avatar
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    Re: 4/13 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    I just heard that Ricky Minor is heading over to the Tonight show come June.
    Kevin Eubanks just announced he's leaving the show and Ricky will be replacing him.
    To Thine Own Self Be True

  5. #175
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    Re: 4/13 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by norealityhere;3877000;
    I just heard that Ricky Minor is heading over to the Tonight show come June.
    Kevin Eubanks just announced he's leaving the show and Ricky will be replacing him.
    Yeah - definitely a loss for Idol. There is some discussion on this going on in the AI Media Articles thread.

  6. #176
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    Re: 4/13 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by liedenfrost;3876745;
    April 13, 2010: the Top Nine Again


    6. Lee Dewyze. I was tempted to promote Tim Urban here but couldn’t. Lee owns a million dollar voice but that doesn’t mean much without a heart and personality. Every song, no matter the genre, is performed and presented exactly the same. A Little Less Conversation is about a man in need but true to his nature, Lee shouted the lyrics and walked center stage to collect weekly accolades. The real world will require a lot more Lee; a lot more. Would you actually navigate two hours traffic and shell out hard-earned bucks to watch this boring dude?
    I am less inclined to shell out those kinds of hard earned dollars to watch anybody. I don't care how many tricks and how much emotion are thrown in to make the parting of the dollars less sorrowful.

    However, he has the kind of voice that tempts me to part with some of those bucks to buy a CD to listen to while stuck in the car. I like the voice even if he just stands there.

    BTW, Crystal has the same situation. She has an incredible voice as well, and I don't see her as physically entertaining. Sometimes when you have a voice like those two and Carrie Underwood ( who didn't do anything either), all you have to do is sing, and that is enough.
    If grace is an ocean, we're all drowning.

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  7. #177
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    Re: 4/13 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloomers;3877021;
    I am less inclined to shell out those kinds of hard earned dollars to watch anybody. I don't care how many tricks and how much emotion are thrown in to make the parting of the dollars less sorrowful.

    However, he has the kind of voice that tempts me to part with some of those bucks to buy a CD to listen to while stuck in the car. I like the voice even if he just stands there.

    BTW, Crystal has the same situation. She has an incredible voice as well, and I don't see her as physically entertaining. Sometimes when you have a voice like those two and Carrie Underwood ( who didn't do anything either), all you have to do is sing, and that is enough.
    I agree with your surmation bloomers...I think both are "recording" artists (not performers), Casey is a performer, he makes me want to get up and dance..drink or buy whatever he is selling...that is a performer. As for the rest of this seasons "crew" I am not sure they will go anywhere far post their 30 minutes of idol time just my opinion...

  8. #178
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    Re: 4/13 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by pillbeam;3876996;
    Actually, song choice is considered part of the contest that the singers are judged on. The music directors, including Ricky Minor and the contestants' vocal coaches, are specifically directed not to help the contestants with song choice. The producers may insist on that because song choice is so crucial to success on the show, and it might be unfair to give some folks a leg up on it behind the scenes.

    Typically, the more experienced performers are better with song choice. This year, Crystal, Casey and Mike are showing their chops pretty well in that area.
    --
    There is a principle that if you keep doing something the same way, you are going to keep getting the same results. If you want a different result, you therefore have to change something you are doing. If no one helps them with song choice and they continue to do poorly, it does not do one bit of good for the judges to continually harp at them about bad song choices. They don't know how to change what they are doing to get a different result because they don't know how to make the right song choice. They don't really know the singers/band or the songs.
    Either they all can get help with the song choices ( the playing field is level), or the judges need to shut up about making poor song choices.
    If grace is an ocean, we're all drowning.

    - John McMillan

  9. #179
    FORT Fogey norealityhere's Avatar
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    Re: 4/13 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    I thought that part of having the mentors' in is for them to provide guidance to the Idols'?

    Doesn't that guidance extend to song choices?
    I find it hard to believe everything is left up to these kids (there are several who are pretty young this year). Although, I'm sure there are some Idols who are going to insist on doing songs that may not be in their best interests and that they still decide to do them thinking they can put their own spin on it or "tey just really liked the song and wanted to have fun".
    The latter has been the death knoll for many singers on AI.
    To Thine Own Self Be True

  10. #180
    Ruben is "Soulful" pillbeam's Avatar
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    Re: 4/13 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloomers;3877067;
    There is a principle that if you keep doing something the same way, you are going to keep getting the same results. If you want a different result, you therefore have to change something you are doing. If no one helps them with song choice and they continue to do poorly, it does not do one bit of good for the judges to continually harp at them about bad song choices. They don't know how to change what they are doing to get a different result because they don't know how to make the right song choice. They don't really know the singers/band or the songs.
    Either they all can get help with the song choices ( the playing field is level), or the judges need to shut up about making poor song choices.
    The producers will never give the contestants help with song choice, because seeing a kid flame out with a bad song is part of the eternal drama of the show. The producers assume that their ratings, above all else, depend on drama.

    I agree tho, it would be interesting to see the contestants routinely perform good songs. It would make for better entertainment.
    "Tons of surprises, but it wouldn't be 'American Idol' without it, would it?" Cowell told MTV News. "At the end of the day, I could go out and find 12 great singers, but that's kind of boring. The fact that there's people there who shouldn't be there makes it 'American Idol.' "

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