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Thread: Tell Me What You Think - To Win Or Not To Win? That Is The Question

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    Staying Afloat speedbump's Avatar
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    Tell Me What You Think - To Win Or Not To Win? That Is The Question

    We're coming to the end of the seventh season and many former contestants are receiving all kinds of airplay and record sales awards. The biggest question which seems to have been underlying this whole season is: is it just as beneficial to not win than to win?

    There are many arguments for and against. Me personally, I don't think winning has any advantage over whether a contestant can become successful. Carrie, Kelly and even rising Jordin Sparks have surely reaped the benefits of being winners but Yamin, Daughtry, Aiken, Pickler, Hudson and Gracin have saw success as well.

    What do you think?
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    Likes Scottish Vikings! talldede's Avatar
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    Re: Tell Me What You Think - To Win Or Not To Win? That Is The Question

    I think it is an advantage to win, so better.

    However, I don't think winning AI is a factor at all in determining success in the marketplace, even with all the hype and promotion.

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    Total Gleek BuckeyeGal007's Avatar
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    Re: Tell Me What You Think - To Win Or Not To Win? That Is The Question



    My two cents: I obviously want David Cook to win (and will be voting as such) but, to me, he doesn't need to win to have a great career. Winning would be more of an advantage for Archie because he needs to guidance more. However, both will have careers, win or 2nd place. Both want to win and will bring their A-Game on Tuesday. The one that does it better, will win. From interviews I've seen, it seems like both want to win very badly, but both are also okay with coming in second to the other. For each, it's a win-win situation.

    That being said....Cook for AI champ!
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    Crazy Shutterbug Harmony2000's Avatar
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    Re: Tell Me What You Think - To Win Or Not To Win? That Is The Question

    I think it depends on the contestant. One that just needed national exposure will do fine whether they win or not. For others? They need the win because its the only way they will ever get a record deal and sell a fair amount of records.

    David A needs the win because I feel that a majority of his fans are what I like to call fair weather fans, the same ones who got behind Hicks to make him win but didn't stay behind him when it came to buying his CD. Without the win? David A will not sell very many CDs.

    David C? Just needed the national exposure and will do just fine whether he wins or not. Of course the win has many benefits to it and I want him to win but he doesn't need it. I believe that a vast majority of his fans are the ones who will purchase whatever he puts out regardless of the outcome of this competition. Also, many of these fans aren't ones who vote with phone calls....they vote with dollars at the sales counter when it comes time to purchase their music.

    That's just my take on it and also my take on why in the past winners haven't done that well while runners-up or even further down have done so well.

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    FORT Fanatic calamari's Avatar
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    Re: Tell Me What You Think - To Win Or Not To Win? That Is The Question

    What bothers me about this question -- and my botheredness isn't aimed at anyone particular in this thread -- is it always ends up boiling down to the argument that "So-and-so is so great that he doesn't need to win" -- which basically translates to "So-and-so is really good and actually better than the competition, so let's handicap him right at the start of his career 'cause he can handle it."

    If you heard someone apply that reasoning to your child or your sibling or your friend, would you nod and agree?

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    Total Gleek BuckeyeGal007's Avatar
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    Re: Tell Me What You Think - To Win Or Not To Win? That Is The Question

    Quote Originally Posted by calamari;3005950;
    What bothers me about this question -- and my botheredness isn't aimed at anyone particular in this thread -- is it always ends up boiling down to the argument that "So-and-so is so great that he doesn't need to win" -- which basically translates to "So-and-so is really good and actually better than the competition, so let's handicap him right at the start of his career 'cause he can handle it."

    If you heard someone apply that reasoning to your child or your sibling or your friend, would you nod and agree?
    Absolutely not! David Cook will be fine whether he wins or not (and I want him to win whole-heartedly). David Archuleta is the exact opposite, IMO. I think that's what Harmony is saying. David Cook wants to win, so hopefully people won't get complacent and not vote because I would hate to see him lose based solely on that fact. David Archuleta will be handicapped by not winning, David Cook won't. That being said, vote vote vote!
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    FORT Fanatic calamari's Avatar
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    Re: Tell Me What You Think - To Win Or Not To Win? That Is The Question

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeGal007;3005974;
    David Archuleta will be handicapped by not winning, David Cook won't.
    See, this is where I think there's room for disagreement. There's a very solid pattern of winners getting more resources than runners-up and doing better in the marketplace. The only exceptions are Clay (whose contest with Ruben was so close that it's still disputed) and Daughtry (which was a weird season in so many ways). "Doesn't need to win" came up with both Bo and Blake, and they just haven't done as well as the winners from their seasons.

    Do I think DC is capable of being that exception who overcomes the non-winner's handicap of being second-in-line for resources and promotion? Absolutely. He's smart; he's persevering; he knows music better than any of the past expected exceptions; his fan base will crawl across broken glass for more music; and he's attracted industry attention. But that's all the more reason why he should simply have all the privileges of winning (which I know you don't disagree with me about!).

    Does anyone know -- do Archuleta's fans say he's so assured of a career that he doesn't need to win?

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    Total Gleek BuckeyeGal007's Avatar
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    Re: Tell Me What You Think - To Win Or Not To Win? That Is The Question

    Quote Originally Posted by calamari;3005979;
    See, this is where I think there's room for disagreement. There's a very solid pattern of winners getting more resources than runners-up and doing better in the marketplace. The only exceptions are Clay (whose contest with Ruben was so close that it's still disputed) and Daughtry (which was a weird season in so many ways). "Doesn't need to win" came up with both Bo and Blake, and they just haven't done as well as the winners from their seasons.

    Do I think DC is capable of being that exception who overcomes the non-winner's handicap of being second-in-line for resources and promotion? Absolutely. He's smart; he's persevering; he knows music better than any of the past expected exceptions; his fan base will crawl across broken glass for more music; and he's attracted industry attention. But that's all the more reason why he should simply have all the privileges of winning (which I know you don't disagree with me about!).

    Does anyone know -- do Archuleta's fans say he's so assured of a career that he doesn't need to win?
    I totally get what you're saying, and agree to an extent. David Cook's had major artists already completmenting him and wanting to work with him. Even an agent stated that he wanted to represent David, so that's where my argument comes from. Winning would definitely not be a disadvantage to him and might provide additional resources and support, but his career won't tank without it. So, in no way am I saying that David shouldn't win, I'm just saying he (of all the Top 10 contestants) will be the least phased by it, should he not win. Of course, this could be me trying to prepare myself for the worst...

    And a lot of Archie fans on other boards think he has it in the bag and think he will outsell David Cook in a heartbeat.
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    Crazy Shutterbug Harmony2000's Avatar
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    Re: Tell Me What You Think - To Win Or Not To Win? That Is The Question

    Well said BuckeyeGal007 and exactly what I was getting at (thanks). After all we are all just gazing into our own personal crystal balls when we speculate and answer this question. I am also more than likely very colored by my active dislike of all things Archie.

    I keep hearing people say that you can't compare anything to what a success Daughtry has been because that season was a special case, I'm not so sure I agree mostly because of the large number of talent that has come out of that season except for the winner. Which is why I said that I feel that the majority of the power voters who are keeping DA in this and will more than likely give him the win are not the same ones who will go and flood the stores to purchase his CD. Yes, he will do just fine in sales BUT I still feel he needs the win more than DC. He will not sell that many CDs as the runner up because he won't have the backing that DC will get as the runner-up. Does that make more sense?

    AND as I said in my response, I want DC to win. I think it would be an advantage for him to win. I just don't think he necessarily needs it because I do believe he will do just fine without it.

    I disagree with the Archie fans and hope I'm proven wrong for his sake but I do not think he will sell that many CDs.

    What solid pattern of winners doing well? I've been reading on quiet a few entertainment sites that they jokingly refer to it as the AI curse. That more winners have tanked or sold very low numbers than expected *shrugs*. I've never researched the stats or cared enough to find out but I'd be interested in knowing just how successful the last 6 winners have been and if they lived up to the expectations?

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    FORT Fanatic calamari's Avatar
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    Re: Tell Me What You Think - To Win Or Not To Win? That Is The Question

    Yeah, I was going to try, for my own entertainment, to make the argument that Archuleta doesn't need the win... just 'cause that hasn't really shown up on this board, and Archuleta fan sites make me feel too ancient and crotchety to spend any time there. Let's see:

    1. Tween audience is considered so desirable that TPTB are going to be heavily invested in marketing Archuleta regardless of where he finishes, just because he's their best shot at the same 12-year-olds who love Miley Cyrus. His difficulties with fast songs can be worked out in the studio and with further training/practice (which is what I actually expect will happen -- Archuleta's so young that there should be lots of space to grow his skills).

    2. Archuleta's pure voice and pure image have huge mass appeal, particularly to listeners hungry for a wholesome alternative to all the sex-you-up stuff in music today. Parents will want their kids to listen to him. Should a troubled record industry lead to weak sales of a first, mass-market album, Archuleta's second album would be a natural Wal-Mart exclusive, and I mean that in a marketing-savvy, non-insulting way. Established artists are releasing Wal-Mart exclusives these days.

    3. Archuleta's father is so committed to his son's career that he's certainly going to knock on every door. That brings up stage-daddy visions -- but leaving aside Jeff Archuleta's particular reputation, that is what a dedicated parent would do with a kid with that kind of talent. It would be surprising if Archuleta, at 17, had the savvy to manage his own career.

    4. When Archuleta ages out of tween-appeal, he's a natural to promote as a grown-up pop ballad singer or something like Justin Timberlake (and here I get kind of stupid because this isn't music I listen to, but you get what I mean, right?).

    That was really tough to compose! I think I'm basically right, though, and that seeing Archuleta as "needing" to win may require underestimating him substantially. Being the precise and exact opposite of Archuleta's target market, I would normally underestimate him all day long... but his sobbing, throbbing fan base is sure coming from somewhere.

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