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Thread: 4/26 Show Discussion **SPOILERS**

  1. #321
    FORT Fogey
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelic_one2002
    AGREED. I have yet to see any personality from this girl...while so many keep bashing Scott.
    Is it really necessary to support one competitor by bashing another?

    Of course Carrie has a personality. Just not a wild, exuberant or outgoing one. Just because you want to be a pop singer on a national stage doesn't mean you have to conform to some viewers' expectations of how one should act.

  2. #322
    FORT Fan liedenfrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remus Lupin
    Another great post, but I do have a few points of debate.

    Regarding Bo's performance, while I loved it too, I could not help but notice that Gavin DeGraw's original is just that much better. Maybe with a lot more practice, Bo's rendition would be as good. As it was, he seemed to miss (or avoid) some of the higher notes in the song.



    I'm not sure how you can say Constantine was wrongly eliminated unless you're saying viewers should be voting based on all of his performances throughout the entire competition, not just this episode. AI is all about middle-America's tastes, and he picked a song that would have been a bad choice even if it was Grunge Rock Idol.



    Well, when a Martina McBride fan tells me this song isn't even close to being one of her best songs, that says something. I don't know about you, but if someone with a beautiful voice that I really like, insists on singing material that bores me, I'm not buying that album, unless she's my little sister and mom tells me I have to buy it.



    I originally thought Scott didn't sing this too well but after listening to the original by Luther Vandross, then re-listening to the audio-only of Scott's performance, I now think that Scott's rendition was quite good.
    Bo: I agree. Gavin McGraw is not only a superb lyricist, but is also a pioneer of musical composition. Bo never goes after high notes, nor should he. His range won't allow it.

    Constantine: I agree with you, there really is no such thing as a wrongful elimination because winners are chosen by the voting public. When I said that he was wrongly eliminated, I meant simply that I disagree with America; I do not think that Constantine's performance was the worst of the evening. It sounds vain, I know, but when it comes to art appreciation (as opposed to historical fact), it's okay to use words like "wrong". Music is art. Constantine's performance was "wrong" for a majority of Americans, but it was "right" for me, probably because I like rock and R&B more than other genres. I thought this was one of Constanine's better performances, but neither the judges nor the voting public agreed with me. I do believe that the judges' opinions matter to the voting public. I also believe that had the judges' panel included a genuine rocker such as a reincarnated Curt Cobain, a healthy Eddie Van Halen, or even a rock enthusiastic like Mark McGrath, the reviews of this performance would have been different; something alongs the lines of (mimicking Randy): "Yo, Dude! You know what? I don't like that song and I don't like Nickelback but that performance was the bomb! You rocked it out, Constantine" (he's done this many times). Voters who base their decisions on judge comments might have responded favorably to such a review. Simon, Paula, and Randy heard a bad song. Middle America heard a bad song (Constantine's miscalculation). Either they didn't like the message or they couldn't relate to the message, so they dismissed both the message and the messenger. I also heard a bad song, but saw a very entertaining, courageous, and ground-breaking rock performance. It was easy for me to separate the two, but as you know well, I am as far from Middle America as it gets. In the end, you are right.: This is not Grunge Rock Idol. That, I'm afraid, is the apt phrase, and the real reason for Constantine's departure.

    Carrie: I like How Far. It works completely for me. Beyonce argued for weeks that Naughty Girl be shelved in favor of a different song. The public loved it. Artists are not always the best judges of public taste.

    Yeap. Scott was terrific this week. Dance With My Father is one of my favorite songs. I know it and sing it all the time. I enjoyed Scott's touching version of this song. Thank you for reading my posts.

  3. #323
    FORT Fogey Misty8723's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jette66
    Between Scott and Constantine, I thought Constantine was worse (especially after hearing him on the radio), but that's beside the point. I'm curious how many of you are "Voting For the Worst" to keep Scott in???
    Personally, the only one I've done any voting for this year is Bo. I love his voice and I enjoy his performances. I've listened and not watched, and still love his voice.

    And I have to add, after listening (and not watching) Carrie, she does have an awesome voice.

    Would truely enjoy a Bo / Carrie final.

  4. #324
    FORT Fan liedenfrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pillbeam
    Thanks, Liedenfrost, for your intelligent post.

    I also agree that the judges didn't get Constantine--or Nadia. After praising them both for taking risks with songs early in the competition, they slammed them later for not doing safer songs. Randy kept telling Connie that he wasn't a rocker--but in Connie's heart, he is. Neither Connie nor Nadia compromised--good for them. Since Connie and Nadia have left the show, it has lost a lot of energy and pizzazz--the only exciting one left is Bo.

    Regarding Scott: I absolutely agree. He did a lovely rendition of "Father," though with a couple of unfortunate bad notes. Scott still conveys more authentic feeling in his songs, for me, than Vonzell, Carrie or Anthony.

    Anthony was super in the pop mode. Not my kinda music, but he is certainly the most improved Idol. I really admire his evolution on this show. He has a great voice, power and warmth.

    Vonzell, as usual, was flat and sharp throughout her song. And her timing is still off. Her survival on the show with voters is more of a mystery to me than Scott's. Thanks, Pook, for saying it better than I can:
    I've watched this show since its debut. The one constant is that pop ballads receive the most votes. Both Nadia and Constantine are risk-takers. They take songs to new and exciting places. Sometimes it works; sometimes it doesn't. Whether it works or no, they get props from me for pushing back the musical frontier of American Idol. It appears that you also prefer rock and R&B to pop. I also enjoy Scott more than Vonzell and Carrie, but Anthony is a toughie. This kid is as real an artist as there is, but the rocker in me sometimes dismisses its value. I will say this: I get Anthony. He's transparent. It's hard for me to knock something so real. Whether I like pop ballads or no, this little nerd's performances are straight from the heart. I salute him for finding the artistic combination to this music form. I've yet to find it. Regarding Carrie, you'd probably need a chromosome change to understand that one. Thank you for reading my post.

  5. #325
    FORT Fan liedenfrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kariann1
    Liedenfrost, I appreciate the positive comments you have made about Anthony!

    Having said that, I am curious why you and others have not given Anthony a higher rating? Some have said they do not like that style of music. When a rapper named 50 cents lands 4 "songs" in the Top Ten, I am a firm believer that we NEED some pop or R&B to soothe our souls. Yes, I am an elder here, but my son and daughters also dislike Rap music.

    You always write so well, even when I disagree with you! If I may ask, do you have a musical background (artist, teacher, DJ,or record distributor)? I have been following the written works of musical coaches and teachers, in addition to music critics. All ranked Anthony as the best or second best performance of the evening. You did not.

    Oh, I do see some hope for Carrie. Starting out with the powerful voice is a great beginning. I anticipate a performance with Carrie wearing a sleek and sexy black dress and her hair in an up-do. With her looks, she could be believable as sex! Just so she doesn't move too much. All she needs is the right song choice to go with this appearance change!
    Anthony: Kariann1, actually, I love rap. I also like Fifty Cents, Nelly and Jay-Z. I used to like Eminem, who is a gifted lyricist (even though his lyrics are quite offensive to women and gays). I concede the artistic license to all artists, without censorship; a public moral code will determine the true value of a product. In a recent interview, Eminem was aksed what's was bothering him. He responded: "I'm white. I'm stupid. I stink. I'm white... and I have a small penis". Huh? His latest cd sold 4 million copies and these are his worries! It's small wonder he is dismissed by Blacks, women and gays. If he continues making sterotypical remarks like this, he will soon be dismissed by the legions of young white males who form the base of his support.

    During the early stages of this competition, I ranked Anthony as high as #2, because of his ability to disappear inside pop ballads and find secrets I could not. Then, his performances shifted, focusing on sex appeal, hip wriggling, and flirting, which diminished his performances (for me). While he is free to do this (this show is, after all, about entertainment) and some of his song selections allow it, I'm a guy, so I didn't like it so much (neither did Simon). I felt that it compromised the music. Lately, Anthony has returned to his roots. For me, I Surrender was his best performnace yet, and I ranked it second, behind Bo. As to why he is ranked below Bo, Carrie, and Scott (Constantine was eliminated this week), I'm admittedly biased. I am partial to rock and R&B, and sometimes have trouble connecting with pop, especially pop ballads (I'd rather be sleeping). When Anthony's right, I get it and I feel it. He is a superb vocalist, but sometimes gets so caught up in the adulation of his rapidly growing female fan base (a natural distration for any healthy red-blooded young heterosexual male), he disengages from the lyrics. When this happens, he becomes mediocre. A few weeks ago, I didn't think the little fellow had a chance in hell of winning this competition. I was wrong. With respect to your other question, l will answer it this once (please don't ask for more). I am a former musician and a college professor, but not of music.

  6. #326
    I love my sailor. Cindirella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remus Lupin
    * Did Scott really say there were a million like him in Cleveland? Not sure if the Cleveland tourism board is all that happy to hear him say that.

    I live in the Cleveland area. It would be pretty scary if there were a million Scotts walking around!!!

  7. #327
    FORT Fogey Kariann1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liedenfrost
    During the early stages of this competition, I ranked Anthony as high as #2, because of his ability to disappear inside pop ballads and find secrets I could not. Then, his performances shifted, focusing on sex appeal, hip wriggling, and flirting, which diminished his performances (for me). While he is free to do this (this show is, after all, about entertainment) and some of his song selections allow it, I'm a guy, so I didn't like it so much (neither did Simon). I felt that it compromised the music. Lately, Anthony has returned to his roots. For me, I Surrender was his best performnace yet, and I ranked it second, behind Bo. As to why he is ranked below Bo, Carrie, and Scott (Constantine was eliminated this week), I'm admittedly biased. I am partial to rock and R&B, and sometimes have trouble connecting with pop, especially pop ballads (I'd rather be sleeping). When Anthony's right, I get it and I feel it. He is a superb vocalist, but sometimes gets so caught up in the adulation of his rapidly growing female fan base (a natural distration for any healthy red-blooded young heterosexual male), he disengages from the lyrics. When this happens, he becomes mediocre. A few weeks ago, I didn't think the little fellow had a chance in hell of winning this competition. I was wrong. With respect to your other question, l will answer it this once (please don't ask for more). I am a former musician and a college professor, but not of music.
    Thank you for your response, liedenfrost! I can appreciate the diversity in music, but I just cannot relate to Rap. You and Pillbeam say that the Pop mode is not your kind of music and I respect your views. Pop music is my favorite genre and contributes to the "soundtrack of my life." As a dancer, I am also very fond of Disco!

    Your analysis of Anthony's style and delivery of song is quite good! I was trying to think of a successful solo artist or lead singer that did not get "caught up in the adulation of his rapidly growing female fan base (a natural distration for any healthy red-blooded young heterosexual male)" early in their career. I WAS UNABLE TO COME UP WITH A NAME!! Constantine and Bo have been in the performance arena, so this admiration may not overwhelm them. You feel Anthony disengages from the lyrics; I find it to be adorable!

    The power ballad has been the most successful songs for several head-banging and rock groups. These songs are often my favorites. Many times, there is a fine line between pop and rock, sometimes called pop rock. My love for music extends a spectrum from R&B to folk. I have presented two written essays on music: "Women in Rock" and "Music as Popular Culture."

    One other thing, I feel Anthony is much more marketable than Scott. Frankly, I can not see Scott as a money making prospect. To each their own.


    Quote Originally Posted by pillbeam
    Anthony was super in the pop mode. Not my kinda music, but he is certainly the most improved Idol. I really admire his evolution on this show. He has a great voice, power and warmth.
    I agree with your assessment and hope he will continue to evolve. My secret wish is that Anthony would sing "Footloose"! I would love to see him let loose and show excitement in his performance!


    Quote Originally Posted by dpiranha
    But for the life of me, I cannot understand why people are voting for Scott Savol.

    I have also questioned this but do realize there are some who are voting for the worse contestant or the average guy! BTW, Anthony's appeal ranges from the pre-teen to Grandmas! Bo and Constantine also gathered admirers in this population of voters!
    Last edited by Kariann1; 05-02-2005 at 02:41 AM.

  8. #328
    FORT Fogey razorbacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cindirella
    I live in the Cleveland area. It would be pretty scary if there were a million Scotts walking around!!!
    I decided to avoid most of Northen Ohio just in case the got the wandering fever & decided to venture south.

  9. #329
    FORT Fogey Kariann1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cindirella
    I live in the Cleveland area. It would be pretty scary if there were a million Scotts walking around!!!
    I am a few hours away from Cleveland but have been there dozens of times! The downtown area is really nice. So many things to do and see. I have been to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame 35 times! Fabulous! Wonder if Scott has been in the area? Maybe he took his son to a ball game or to the Science Center?

    Cindirella, that comment seemed so off-the-cuff, but it did bother me! We usually stay in West Lake.

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