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Thread: Clay Aiken

  1. #781
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway;2470298;
    ... the rest of the world only knows him based upon AI, so that will always be mentioned in any discussion of Clay Aiken. ...
    Well, that's patently false. I've already outlined a number of segments of the population who have learned who Clay is since, and not in connection to, American Idol. But if you choose to believe that, fine. kiss

    (What can you say to someone who basically says all the people on the Clay fan boards who say they never watched American Idol are lying? Who totally write off people who say they discovered Clay in the last year or two because they were symphony lovers and heard him perform with their local orchestra? Who tell someone who is a Clay fan because of his work on behalf of children with disabilities that s/he really only knows Clay as an American Idol contestant? Who never tuned into AI till AI 5 or AI6 but heard Clay on radio and became a fan? Or who were fans of Clay before AI2 because of his local performances in Raleigh, Charlotte, etc.? )

    Or how about people who happened to tune in early to AI2, become smitten with a geeky guy with a big voice, and remain his fans, while never watching an episode of AI again after May 21, 2003?
    Last edited by Grisabella; 07-12-2007 at 01:24 AM.
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    lei
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella;2470215;
    BTW, Lois, to me there's a huge difference between having your name forever linked with possibly the most successful and influential band in recording history and having people forever dismiss you as merely a former TV talent show contestant -- even if it is the biggest talent show in TV history..
    But one was in the most successful and influential band in recording history (despite being well-known for later work) and the other was a former TV talent show contestant (despite much more obscure later work)!

    You are right that there is a huge difference, but should it be ignored? If anything, readers are more need of identification of Clay because of how relatively few people know who he is.

    I have no recollection of the Lennon plane story, but for some reason this is all hilarious.
    Last edited by lei; 07-12-2007 at 02:10 AM. Reason: clarity.

  3. #783
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    It seems to me some people keep changing the subject here.

    I thought the point was being made that somehow Paul and John's forever being linked to The Beatles was comparable to Clay's (or Kelly's or Carrie's, for that matter) forever being linked to AI. Just saying it's hardly the same thing. Being thought of a Beatle is hardly a put down in any sense of the word. In fact, I think it's safe to say it was the pinnacle of success for John, Paul, Ringo, and George, even though they all went on separately to post-Beatle success.

    I don't think Idol is the pinnacle of the success of Kelly, Clay, Carrie, Fantasia, Ruben, Jennifer, Daughtry, Josh Groban, Taylor Hicks, or maybe even Diana DeGarmo and some other less-famous Idol graduates. It may be for Julia De Mato, Christina Christian, Vonzell Solomon, Scott Savol, Ayla Brown, and a few others, but I don't think that holds for the "Idols" who've had success on Broadway or had multi-platinum albums, successful concert tours, etc.

    PS,
    What's "obscure" about being one of only a handful of recording artists in SoundScan history to have a standard (CD) single that goes Platinum? What's "obscure" about one of only a small handful of artist to have his/her first 3 albums debut in the top 5 on Billboard/SoundScan? What's "obscure" about having the fastest-selling Christmas CD since Celine Dion's holiday album a decade ago?

    Maybe none of the records that Clay has matched or broken is earth-shattering music-history news, but being a contestant on American Idol certainly doesn't qualify as such, either.
    Last edited by Grisabella; 07-12-2007 at 02:22 AM.
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  4. #784
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    A little off subject, but still related to Clay. One thing I don't get about this guy is why he doesn't just come out of the closest already. His fans will still be there. I am a gay man and for awhile I thought Clay was just effimine(sp). I know a lot of straight men that are effimine, and I know a lot of gay men who are masculine, I also know a lot of gay men who are effimine.

    What changed my mind was when Diane Sawyer interviewed him and he got got all snotty with her. When you are in the public eye for whatever reason, people are curious about your sexuality. Its part of the downside of being a celebrity, so you take then downsides, because the perks out way them. I don't know why he was so offended that Diane Sawyer asked him. If I were Clay and going to be interviewed I would anticipate being asked that Then we he is asked that he got all huffy and said "I don't know why its any of your business"

    Well, when you don't answer yes or no. The answer usually is a yes. Just like I believe Ricky Martin is gay, because he won't answer it either way.

    Maybe Clay will would be less stressed and have less of an ego, and stop
    putting his feet on other passengers if he came out.

    Nobody really cares that Tr Knight(except Isaiah Washington), Neil Patrick Harris or Lance Bass are gay. So why should Clay care?
    Last edited by snarkattack; 07-12-2007 at 05:24 AM.

  5. #785
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Why should Clay care? Probably because he isn't gay. He has been asked over and over whether he is gay and one can only assume that his "I'm not gay" wasn't the answer they are looking for. Diane Sawyer interviewed him at length in 2003. She asked him then by saying that some people have said that they wondered if he was gay. He told her he isn't. To ask again after getting the answer the first time is just plain rude.

    Somebody strung together the times he has answered in his own words. I don't know if we're allowed to link to it so if you search youtube for Setting the Record Straight...Again he will answer the question over and over in articles and interviews. To keep on and on about it is rude after you know the answer. That is why he is not going to answer any more.

    Lois Lane

    OK, let's say Kelly Clarkson...since she was the first, has won awards, etc. Mr. Lane still wouldn't know who she was either. But my point is that my husband--not being an "American Idol" fan or having seen any of the shows--would have no clue who one of those performers were if they were to sit on his lap on a plane! BUT, he has heard of the show. So for a lot of people, the show is a known entity but the winners/runners up/contestants are not.
    As precious as your husband may be to you, I doubt that he is representative of the 6 billion people world wide. If Clay was such a non entity, why were they reporting this in Sweden, France, England, India, Australia, South Africa, Malaysia, Singapore and Canada among others? Why did over 450 outlets pick it up including CNN, Forbes, ET, The Insider, Extra, E! News, and the major New York, Boston, Washington and LA papers?

    I did a non-scientific experiment on my lunch hour today. I approached 15 random people in the mall where I often go in downtown Toronto. I asked each person If they knew anyone famous named Clay. Just Clay. One person couldn't come up with anything better than Claymation. One person said Clay Walker, the country singer, 5 people said it was the guy that won American Idol a few years ago, 4 people said it was the guy that got robbed cuz he should have won and 3 of the women clutched my arm and swooned. One guy said he's that gay guy that is disgusting and needs to come out. 13 out of 15 didn't even need a last name.

    Broadway

    And it is responsible journalism to detail who the person is that they are talking about to appeal to the mass audience that is reading their report.
    Well you may be right but isn't it interesting that they didn't bother to mention the African American doctor that took it upon herself to accost a sleeping celebrity. Not a word about her, but if the public must be repeatedly spoon fed that he was once a TV star, why aren't they demanding to know who the lunatic was that assaulted him? I'll tell you why. This was not news reporting. This was cheap scandal mongering as evidenced by the deliberate sensationalism and the fact that 3 days later the true story is still not being told by more than a very few outlets.

    The nastiest gossip comes from the gay gossip bloggers and press. It has been that way since January 2005. Clay's publicist was asked to set up an interview with Next magazine. His inept PR guy told the publication that Clay would not do it. Not that he asked Clay or anything. The publicist later said, on the record, that he was misquoted but by then they had released the hounds and didn't want an interview any more.


    Clay Aiken Avoids Gay Press

    01/21/2005

    Dish knows you just love it when Simon Cowell says mean things to those losers who can't sing on "American Idol."

    Maybe Cowell should be yelling mean things at past loser Clay Aiken. Though only a runner-up on the show's second season, Aiken has found more success after the show than any of his cohorts.

    And he's had lots of exposure, including television talk show appearances, magazine covers, a book ("Learning to Sing: Hearing the Music in Your Life") and countless other appearances. But don't count on the fey crooner to end up in the gay press anytime soon.

    According to the most recent issue of the New York gay magazine Next: "We tried to get an interview with the sexually ambiguous pop star - but his publicist told us he'd "never talk to a gay magazine!" Well, why, pray tell, is that?

    Yes, why is that? Listen, Mr. Aiken, everyone has been speculating about your orientation since your first appearance on "Idol." Now, Dish isn't saying that you would prefer the company of Justin Guarini to Kelly Clarkson, but she is warning you not to piss off gay fans.

    We are the first on any bandwagon (and there are plenty on yours, so to speak) and we're the last ones to hop off. We've single-handedly supported Margaret Cho, kept George Michael on the charts and allowed Cher to return more times than Liza Minnelli to an open bar. Now, are you going to trade that lifetime meal ticket for the support of some fickle 14-year-old girls?

    Yeah, Dish didn't think so, and will be expecting your interview offer soon.

    The Washington Blade
    Those feats of Clay - Washington Blade

    That was the warning shot and they are still teaching him a lesson by trying to drive away his fans by portraying him as an unattractive, dishonest, desperate, internet trolling, sex addicted, mentally unstable, drugged out diva and they are trying to force him out of a closet he isn't in by humiliating and ridiculing him. The haters are loving it. The fans are rolling their eyes and occasionally trying to right the wrongs that are constantly being heaped on him.
    Last edited by AllDone; 07-12-2007 at 07:15 AM.

  6. #786
    Scrappy Spartan Broadway's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella;2470562;
    Well, that's patently false. I've already outlined a number of segments of the population who have learned who Clay is since, and not in connection to, American Idol.

    (What can you say to someone who basically says all the people on the Clay fan boards who say they never watched American Idol are lying?


    Superlatives much? Did I ever say "all"? And "all" certainly wouldn't apply, as the majority of the people on the Clay fan boards watched AI, by your own admission.

    Who totally write off people who say they discovered Clay in the last year or two because they were symphony lovers and heard him perform with their local orchestra?
    And how exactly did Clay come to perform with their local orchestra? I'd love to see the promotional material for those appearances to see if they mention AI. I'm betting they do.

    Who tell someone who is a Clay fan because of his work on behalf of children with disabilities that s/he really only knows Clay as an American Idol contestant?
    Again... would LOVE to see the promotional advertising for his charitable appearances. Clay Aiken has been involved in a number of charitable activities, yes, but he doesn't get these appearances because he's Joe Schmoe off of the street. He gets them because of his AI celebrity.

    Or who were fans of Clay before AI2 because of his local performances in Raleigh, Charlotte, etc.? )
    Rare. Rare. Rare.

    Who never tuned into AI till AI 5 or AI6 but heard Clay on radio and became a fan? Or how about people who happened to tune in early to AI2, become smitten with a geeky guy with a big voice, and remain his fans, while never watching an episode of AI again after May 21, 2003?
    I'd say these examples here are the exact opposite of what you're trying to accomplish. These people know who he is because of AI. You made OUR point, not your own.

  7. #787
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella;2469993;
    Miss Thing, you kind of make my point about the AI references not being needed (at least not in duplicate or triplicate) in every article about Clay. You, like most people who know Clay from American Idol, seem totally aware that he was on AI2 and was runner-up. Why mention it so often?

    I hate to compare Clay with Paris Hilton, but in one way this is comparable.
    We all know that Paris would never have gotten a recording contract or TV show or become a fave of the paparazzi if she weren't a filthy-rich heiress (and if that sex tape hadn't made its way around the net). But when the media write up "news" articles about Paris's latest escapades, they seldom mention her being heiress to the Hilton Hotel fortune or the sex tape, much less use up 10%-25% of their words describing that background.
    Hey Gris, the AI references are never going to go away. Just as a reference point I'll bring up Carrie. Her appearances this year are beng advertised as American Idol winner Carrie Underwood. No mention of selling 6 million albums, no mention of 4 #1 hits, no mention of being the Female Voaclist of the Year, or of winning a Grammy for the Best New Artist. Simply, American Idol winner Carrie Underwood. It's sad, but none the less, Carrie hasn't stated any thing negative towards this.

  8. #788
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway;2470771;
    I'd love to see the promotional material for those appearances to see if they mention AI. I'm betting they do.

    I'd say these examples here are the exact opposite of what you're trying to accomplish. These people know who he is because of AI. You made OUR point, not your own.
    Your use of "OUR point" sounds a bit like a gang up.

    Here are some of the promotional posters and billboards. I could upload a lot more but that would be overkill. These are designed by the promoters at the local venues which is why they are so varied. Look closely. Not a word about AI.

















    Last edited by AllDone; 07-12-2007 at 08:01 AM.

  9. #789
    On a cupcake mission! Lois Lane's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by AllDone;2470763;
    As precious as your husband may be to you, I doubt that he is representative of the 6 billion people world wide. If Clay was such a non entity, why were they reporting this in Sweden, France, England, India, Australia, South Africa, Malaysia, Singapore and Canada among others? Why did over 450 outlets pick it up including CNN, Forbes, ET, The Insider, Extra, E! News, and the major New York, Boston, Washington and LA papers?
    I am making an educated guess that the majority of those people would not know who Clay Aiken is. But don't worry--they certainly wouldn't know who Mr. Lane or I were either!

    I'm not sure what you're getting at because not knowing who somebody is doesn't make that celebrity a non entity... And don't be getting all sarcastic about Mr. Lane. Them's fighting words...

    And you missed the point of my post. I never said Clay was unknown or a non entity or not good or fat or gay or ugly or anything that could be construed as a negative. What I did say is that the FBI AGENT who was called in identified Clay as a former contestant from "American Idol," and not as a singer who was performing in Tulsa that evening and who was well known for his philanthrophic work. That's what the CNN story picked up on and went with. What I also said was that there are mere mortals who do NOT KNOW even the most famous contestants from "AI"--not McPhee, Aiken, or even Clarkson (whose name has been screamed in a movie!)--but they have heard of "American Idol." That doesn't make the contestants losers--it also doesn't make the people who've never heard of them any less precious.

    To put things into perspective, pick the name of a good NFL football player. I'm not a football fan and don't pay attention to it. So if you said Joe Football got into a tiff with a woman on an airplane, I'd have no idea who he was. But if you said Joe Football from the Chicago Bears got into a tiff, I'd certainly be aware of who the Bears are.

    Sure, all of US know who Clay Aiken is, and we probably know of a lot of pop culture people, otherwise we wouldn't be hanging out in a forum devoted to television... but to expect the rest of the world to know who he is is misguided, in my opinion.
    Last edited by Lois Lane; 07-12-2007 at 11:34 AM.

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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by snarkattack;2470744;
    When you are in the public eye for whatever reason, people are curious about your sexuality.
    Personally, that's the last thing I want to know about someone. It's their private, personal life and quite frankly I don't feel that it's any of my business.

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