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Thread: Clay Aiken

  1. #771
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    BTW, Lois, to me there's a huge difference between having your name forever linked with possibly the most successful and influential band in recording history and having people forever dismiss you as merely a former TV talent show contestant -- even if it is the biggest talent show in TV history..
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  2. #772
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella;2470215;
    BTW, Lois, to me there's a huge difference between having your name forever linked with possibly the most successful and influential band in recording history and having people forever dismiss you as merely a former TV talent show contestant -- even if it is the biggest talent show in TV history..
    How did we jump from comparing Clay to Justin Timberlake to comparing Clay to Paul McCartney?

  3. #773
    Scrappy Spartan Broadway's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella;2470198;
    Not by mentioning Clay's ties to AI repeatedly and the fact that he was runner up in 2003 twice, while not answering the question, "Why was a guy who lives in Raleigh and records in NY (or LA) flying from Houston to Tulsa?"

    And while not even addressing the question most likely to have been on people's minds: "What the heck happened, anyway?"

    I know I'm repeating myself, but nobody yet has explained why the public would be interested in this story if Clay were merely a runner-up on Idol 4 years ago. Or why it's more "responsible journalism" to cite American Idol several times but not mention anything whatsoever about Clay's post-Idol career. The best journalism gives the most information in the space alloted.

    So I wouldn't take much issue with something like "American Idol singer Clay Aiken, en route from Houston to Tulsa for a concert, was involved in a dispute with a fellow passenger. ... " Or even, "Pop singer Clay Aiken, the 2003 runner-up on American Idol, ... ."
    Grisabella....

    Most of the articles I've read, and that you've cited above, have mentioned that Clay Aiken was on his way to Tulsa for an evening concert. But even if they hadn't... who the heck cares where he was going and why? These weren't intended to be informational articles about Clay Aiken, his current tour, or his nightly activities. These were short articles talking about what is known to have happened on a plane flight. His tour is irrelevant. The fact that he had a concert that night is irrelevant. All that is relevant in these news blurbs is that there was a disturbance on a plane and Clay Aiken, former AI contestant for those that don't know who he is, was involved in some capacity.

    You appear to have, in my opinion, unrealistic expectations of the news media. You're expecting them to be a publicity representative for one of your favorite singers and that's just not right and not appropriate.



    Quote Originally Posted by Veruka
    How did we jump from comparing Clay to Justin Timberlake to comparing Clay to Paul McCartney?
    Paul McCartney apparently once smacked a woman on plane. This discussion is like a really bad game of telephone tag.
    Last edited by Broadway; 07-11-2007 at 10:10 PM.

  4. #774
    On a cupcake mission! Lois Lane's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway;2470258;
    Paul McCartney apparently once smacked a woman on plane. This discussion is like a really bad game of telephone tag.
    It was actually John Lennon and apparently he's got very big feet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella;2470215;
    BTW, Lois, to me there's a huge difference between having your name forever linked with possibly the most successful and influential band in recording history and having people forever dismiss you as merely a former TV talent show contestant -- even if it is the biggest talent show in TV history..
    But I don't think the reports were "dismissing" Clay by referring to him as an American Idol runner up. It was a descriptive factor to help readers connect to who he is. My husband wouldn't know Katharine McPhee from Clay Aiken, but he has heard of "Amercan Idol."

    I found the original CNN story that I read (cut and pasted below, with the link) and the FBI agent was the one who originally identified Clay as a former "American Idol" contestant. Obviously, this FBI agent doesn't know Clay's resume--but that's what stood out to him as well and he used it to describe the "perp." No, Clay's not a "perp"! I just like using that word...makes me feel all "NYPD Blue." Anyhow, CNN was writing the story for its general audience--and most people would know Clay because of his "American Idol" connection.

    BUT, the first two sentences in the story identify Clay simply as "singer," which is what I think you wanted. They did that. They backed into the "American Idol" reference and to me, it makes sense 'cause it sets up the quote from the FBI agent.

    In rereading the story below, I don't see anything that even implies that an "American Idol" connection is bad...

    And not for nothing, but the writer does mention that Clay played a concert that night, so most readers would infer that Clay was on the plane to get to his concert...



    Clay Aiken apparently involved in airplane spat - CNN.com

    TULSA, Oklahoma (AP) -- Singer Clay Aiken apparently got into a dispute with a woman during a flight to Tulsa, drawing some scrutiny from FBI agents but no charges, a newspaper reported.

    Singer Clay Aiken reportedly joked about his airplane altercation while on-stage, concertgoers said.

    The 2003 "American Idol" runner-up
    was on the Saturday morning Continental Airlines flight for a evening show, and concertgoers said afterward that Aiken joked on-stage about being beaten up by a girl earlier in the day.

    FBI Special Agent Gary Johnson told the Tulsa World there was a dispute between a male passenger and a woman on the flight.

    He said the man was a former "American Idol" contestant but did not give his name.

    Johnson said the dispute was over the male passenger's foot resting on the woman's armrest. He said there was an allegation the woman gave the male passenger a "minor shove" during the argument.
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    "At that point the flight crew was able to resolve the situation," Johnson said.

    Tulsa Airport Authority spokeswoman Alexis Higgins said the passengers were held until FBI agents arrived to interview them.

    No injuries were reported and the disturbance did not interfere with the flight of the aircraft, Johnson said. The U.S. Attorney's Office declined to file charges, he said.

    Telephone calls and e-mails from The Associated Press to Aiken's publicist and manager in Los Angeles were not returned Sunday. E-mail to a friend E-mail to a friend
    Last edited by Lois Lane; 07-11-2007 at 10:23 PM.

  5. #775
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway;2470258;
    Grisabella....
    Most of the articles I've read, and that you've cited above, have mentioned that Clay Aiken was on his way to Tulsa for an evening concert. But even if they hadn't... who the heck cares where he was going and why? These weren't intended to be informational articles about Clay Aiken, his current tour, or his nightly activities. These were short articles talking about what is known to have happened on a plane flight. His tour is irrelevant. The fact that he had a concert that night is irrelevant. All that is relevant in these news blurbs is that there was a disturbance on a plane and Clay Aiken, former AI contestant for those that don't know who he is, was involved in some capacity.

    You appear to have, in my opinion, unrealistic expectations of the news media. You're expecting them to be a publicity representative for one of your favorite singers and that's just not right and not appropriate.
    Au contraire. Most of the articles and reports I've seen and heard about this incident have been in entertainment news or entertainment gossip sites.
    My expectation of the regular "news" media is that a story like this doesn't merit being covered at all, or, if it is, it should be just the bare-boned facts -- i.e., forget mentioning the concert, AI back in 2003, or anything but those minimal facts that the FBI agent gave.

    If it's entertainment news, you bet a current concert tour (or movie, or new album, or whatever) is relevant info, especially if the "news" event happened in conjuction with that. It doesn't matter if it's a celebrity I like or not.

    I'm asking only that coverage of Clay be treated by the media the way they would treat a story about another pop singer currently on tour. And I don't think some of them did --- notably Fox and Celebrity Spider.

    Paul McCartney apparently once smacked a woman on plane.
    And you think Clay did?

    You must be getting your news "info" from Jay Leno's jokes.
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  6. #776
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    As I've said, if the media had just stuck to what the FBI agent reported -- including that the male passenger was "a former American Idol contestant" -- I'd have had no quarrel with that. But they didn't.

    And, Lois, Katharine McPhee was not runner-up on Idol 4 years ago, nor does she have anywhere near the commercial success track record or other accomplishments that Clay does.
    She truly is known right now almost entirely for having been on AI6. Give her a few more years and that may totally change, but right now she truly is mostly famous for being AI5 runner-up.
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  7. #777
    On a cupcake mission! Lois Lane's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella;2470294;
    And, Lois, Katharine McPhee was not runner-up on Idol 4 years ago, nor does she have anywhere near the commercial success track record or other accomplishments that Clay does.
    She truly is known right now almost entirely for having been on AI6. Give her a few more years and that may totally change, but right now she truly is mostly famous for being AI5 runner-up.
    OK, let's say Kelly Clarkson...since she was the first, has won awards, etc. Mr. Lane still wouldn't know who she was either. But my point is that my husband--not being an "American Idol" fan or having seen any of the shows--would have no clue who one of those performers were if they were to sit on his lap on a plane! BUT, he has heard of the show. So for a lot of people, the show is a known entity but the winners/runners up/contestants are not.

  8. #778
    Scrappy Spartan Broadway's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella;2470287;
    Au contraire. Most of the articles and reports I've seen and heard about this incident have been in entertainment news or entertainment gossip sites.
    My expectation of the regular "news" media is that a story like this doesn't merit being covered at all, or, if it is, it should be just the bare-boned facts -- i.e., forget mentioning the concert, AI back in 2003, or anything but those minimal facts that the FBI agent gave.

    If it's entertainment news, you bet a current concert tour (or movie, or new album, or whatever) is relevant info, especially if the "news" event happened in conjuction with that. It doesn't matter if it's a celebrity I like or not.

    I'm asking only that coverage of Clay be treated by the media the way they would treat a story about another pop singer currently on tour. And I don't think some of them did --- notably Fox and Celebrity Spider.

    A quick google of Clay Aiken will show you that this AP story is being reported in any number of news sources. I'd hardly call Fox an entertainment news source.

    So that leaves us with your desire that this wouldn't have been covered at all. We've all acknowledged that the only reason this received any coverage is because of Clay Aiken's "celebrity." The only real dispute after that is the fact that you wish that "celebrity" be based upon his concert tours after AI. But the rest of the world only knows him based upon AI, so that will always be mentioned in any discussion of Clay Aiken. And it is responsible journalism to detail who the person is that they are talking about to appeal to the mass audience that is reading their report.

    If another "pop celebrity" makes the news for a disturbance or non-work related activity, I fail to recall any news report detailing their tour. Again, this wasn't a publicity, entertainment style report... it was a report about a disturbance on a plane.

    I have a similar desire that Paris Hilton never get mentioned at all. But it's going to happen so any argument that I present that her daily meanderings aren't worthy of mention in a news report are moot. And she's a heck of a lot more well known than he.

  9. #779
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    LOL I think Fox News, MSNBC, CNBC, and several other cable news sources devote way too much time to irrelevant "scandals du jour," whether it be the latest juicy murder mystery, the latest hot story involving a sports figure or entertainment figure, or some combination of the two. I don't consider the bulk of their "news" coverage "legitimate, mainstream news. It's more about titillating the viewers than informing the public of things that really affect them.

    But enough of this back-and-forth about what should be and what's important to mention in a case like this. I think we've pretty much all expressed our opinions about that, and people can read the last few pages if they want to look over the arguments that have been presented.

    Let's look at a little more of what the media have done, OK?

    This is, as far as I can tell, the original new report, from TulsaWorld.com. (I don't know if I'm allowed to post a link.)

    This was posted online on 7-7-07 or 7-8-07:
    ----
    Former "American Idol" singer Clay Aiken was apparently involved in a disturbance with another passenger Saturday while on an airplane headed to Tulsa International Airport.

    The dispute occurred on a Continental Airlines flight between a woman and a man, whom FBI Special Agent Gary Johnson confirmed was a former "American Idol" contestant.

    Johnson said he was told the dispute was over one passenger's feet resting on another passenger's armrest.

    Apparently, a former "American Idol" contestant was asleep in his seat and a woman roused him to get him to move his foot, Johnson confirmed. An argument then followed.

    There was an allegation that the woman gave the contestant a "minor shove" during the argument, Johnson said.

    "At that point the flight crew was able to resolve the situation," he said.


    A few hours later, for reasons not explained, the bolded part about Rogers saying Clay had been asleep were edited out of the Tulsa World report. Plus, terms like "dispute," "disturbance," and "minor shove" in the original report -- which AP picked up and then spread around -- were soon displaced in many reports by terms such as "spat," "altercation," "ugly incident," and even "fist fight."

    Even if the statement about Rogers having said that Clay was asleep was deleted because it's veracity could not be confirmed, why are so many in the media still making it sound like neither Clay nor his representatives have made any statements about the incident?

    All Tulsa World or AP (and the others) needed to do to cover their behinds was to use the word "allegedly." E.g., "Clay was allegedly (or "reportedly") asleep when his foot rested on the footrest of the woman in front ..." or "In an interview with ET, Clay says he fell asleep on the plane and was awakened by a woman complaining that his foot was on her arm rest."

    No one is saying the media need to take sides or assume facts not in evidence. Just try to really be "fair and balanced."
    -----
    Last edited by Grisabella; 07-12-2007 at 01:06 AM.
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  10. #780
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Broadway, Paris Hilton may well be more famous than Clay (and any former Idol contestants, for that matter), but I dare say not for her own achievements.

    ---


    http://www.voanews.com/english/entertainme...20entertainment

    While this article doesn't mention he was sleeping it does say
    The 28-year-old singer was on a Continental Airlines flight to Tulsa, Oklahoma, where he was scheduled to perform that evening at the Brady Theater.
    and
    The runner-up in the 2003 season of American Idol, Clay Aiken is the third most commercially successful contestant in the show's history. Only Kelly Clarkson and Carrie Underwood have sold more albums.

    ---
    Here's an example of an apparently unbiased source that gives Clay his due while also tying him to the show that gave him his start:
    http://www.voanews.com/english/entertainme...20entertainment

    The 28-year-old singer was on a Continental Airlines flight to Tulsa, Oklahoma, where he was scheduled to perform that evening at the Brady Theater.
    and
    The runner-up in the 2003 season of American Idol, Clay Aiken is the third most commercially successful contestant in the show's history. Only Kelly Clarkson and Carrie Underwood have sold more albums.
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