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Thread: Clay Aiken

  1. #761
    Scrappy Spartan Broadway's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Add to that the fact that, believe it or not, there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people that have absolutely no idea who Clay Aiken is. I can safely estimate that half of the viewing audience of Regis and Kelly didn't know who the heck Clay Aiken was when he guest-hosted. I can safely estimate that an even larger number that might have seen these news reports don't know who the heck Clay Aiken is.

    I agree with speedbump... why in the heck should news reports about a disturbance on a plane be expected to be a publicity report for his tour? That's an odd one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella
    I really don't see how anyone could think this could not happen while asleep.
    Clay does routinely sit with one leg crossed over the other, with one ankle resting on the other knee, so that his lower leg is parallel to the floor. If you've seen him much on TV (AI2 or afterwards) or in concert, you've seen him sit like that many times. If his foot was clear of the seats and armrests in front of him when he fell asleep, all it would take for his foot to end up touching or resting on the armrest in front of him would be a fairly minor shift in position during his sleep, such as slumping down in his seat.

    I've been on planes with plenty of tall guys, and it's often very hard for them to change positions without inadvertently bumping the seat in front of them. (I feel sorry for anyone over about 5'10" or over 200 lb. on airlines. The seats don't give them much room to move around.) It would be very easy for Clay's foot to have ended up against the back of that armrest, or even partly "on" it, while he was asleep.

    This is not really a matter of opinion. I don't know that this is what did happen, but I know it could happen. Easily.
    No, not easily.

    If someone is falling asleep with their legs crossed, I would 100% agree with you that it is extremely likely that their foot could bump into the seat in front of them. And if that foot bumped into the seat in front of them several times, this could, and definitely would, incite the type of anger that would make someone lean over their seat and attempt to stop the offender. But that's not the claim being made here.

    As I mentioned earlier, I fly often. OFTEN. And I can guarantee you that it is not easy for my size 6 foot to wedge itself into the armrest in front of me, even when intentional. I know you've all of a sudden relegated his actions to "touching the back of her armrest" but that wasn't the claim in any of the news reports, nor was it Clay's own admission. Clay stated that his foot was ON her armrest. For someone with the IMMENSE foot that you claim that he has (can I assume that his immense foot is probably larger than a size 6 female/size 5 male?), I can only imagine that it is even MORE difficult for his foot to lodge itself on her armrest. The type of force it would take would HAVE to be intentional. That is the point that Veruka has made on several occasions and that keeps getting ignored, or facts twisted. So the only thing that could have happened is that he had had her foot ON her armrest (ON by his own admission) prior to falling asleep, and that involuntary movement by him while he was asleep is what caused the woman's anger.

    We haven't heard from the woman in any of this. Until we do, this vigorous defense of Clay Aiken is going to continue to be questioned, because the facts just simply do not make sense.

  2. #762
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Well, if you want to attribute all of Clay's considerable post-Idol success to his having been on the show, that's your right. Your contempt for him couldn't be clearer.

    But I guess everyone who makes it to the final 3 or 4 on Idol sells over 4.6 million albums and over 1.3 million CD singles, has a memoirs book that makes the Best Seller list and sells nearly 100,000 copies, gets appointed to the humanitarian positions Clay has, continues to have a large and devoted fan base 4+ years after the show, and has been successful on the concert circuit for 1 to 3 tours for 4 years too.

    Like it or not, Clay does make news even when there's no "gate" trumped up, does have feature articles written about him in magazines like People, does have industry recognition for having matched or broken several CD sales records, and is a household name to millions of people, including many who are not Idol fans.

    One of the earliest, and fairest, of the media reports about this incident did mention Idol, but it sort of told the whole truth, not just portions selected to diminish Clay. They described the incident briefly and ended by saying that (almost verbatim) "Aiken was runner-up on the 2003 season of American Idol and is one of the three most successful Idols, having sold more albums than any others except Kelly Clarkson and Carrie Underwood."

    American Idol gives people their start. It doesn't guarantee celebrity or stardom much beyond the current season, nor does it guarantee commercial success. Not all the Idol finalists parlay that 'springboard' into the same degree of fame or success, nor is their timetable of fame or success necessarily determined by where they finished on the show.
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  3. #763
    lei
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway;2469762;
    this little ditty from a few weeks ago:
    Ewwwwwwwwwww!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella;2469771;
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lei
    I don't think it's an example of irresponsible journalism (though the story in general has probably been badly sensationalized, as these things tend to be.)

    Sorry, but when the headline misleads so as to suggest that Clay either picked a fight with someone.... [lengthy reply]
    Please reread my post:

    Quote Originally Posted by lei;2468713;
    With all due respect for Clay, his name is not nearly the household word that Timberlake's is. I think a story without the AI reference would leave a lot of people confused or without interest in the story.

    This point has nothing to do with what happened on the plane, just that I don't think it's an example of irresponsible journalism (though the story in general has probably been badly sensationalized, as these things tend to be.)
    I stated specifically that I was talking about the AI reference, not the rest of the story. In fact I was kind of agreeing with you. Therefore I don't understand the purpose of the rest of your reply.

    And honestly, he's not a household name at all. My husband, my dad, and a few of my closest friends had no clue who he is, and they are all pretty savvy. And to paraphrase MissThing, reporters of this event aren't obliged to plug his concerts.

    Quote Originally Posted by razorbacker;2469609;
    ....Clay & his Aiken feet has been good for a few thousand what if's?
    Thank you for what was really needed here.

  4. #764
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    I'm not saying an incident like this should be a publicity platform for a tour -- though you know a minor scuffle involving most touring artists would end up publicizing that tour -- but why should it be a publicity vehicle for American Idol either?
    All they need say is that Clay was en route to a concert performance. That's part of the "story." Certainly more germane than something that happened 4 years ago.

    Speedbump, there are plenty of people who don't know who Clay is. That can be said for most celebrities, but nobody's denying that there a lot of people more famous. Who cares? If I don't recognize the name of some "celebrity" in a news article, I don't necessarily care about what their claim to fame is.

    But I still say, if "runner-up" Clay had had the sales and concert track record that Justin Guarini, Diana DeGarmo, Bo Bice, Katharine McPhee, or even Fantasia had had, he would not be anywhere near the celebrity he is several years later, and a minor incident like this one would not have gotten 1/4 the attention it's getting in the media.

    ==========

    Lei, sorry, I did misunderstand your point. I thought you were saying nothing in the article was irresponsible journalism.
    No, mentioning Idol - even 3 times - isn't so much bad journalism as just rather a waste of space that could have been used for some other story or for putting more actual pertinent info in the report.

    And "household name" doesn't mean eveyone knows it. You'd be surprised how many people don't know who Dick Cheney is. LOL
    Seriously, I know plenty of people who don't know who Kelly Clarkson and Carrie Underwood are, or even who Simon Cowell is, or Kobe Bryant. By "household name," basically I mean the name is widely recognized without having to have an explanatory description attached. Not everyone is tuned in to the same things in the media.

    That's why people in the news are so often described as "baseball player," "golfer," "author," "rap artist," "news anchor," etc. If you still don't recognize the name, so what?
    Last edited by Grisabella; 07-11-2007 at 09:09 PM.
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  5. #765
    Shoveling the ocean MissThing's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella;2470048;
    Well, if you want to attribute all of Clay's considerable post-Idol success to his having been on the show, that's your right. Your contempt for him couldn't be clearer.
    I have no contempt for Clay. He isn't important enough for that. What I'm saying (for the last time) is that this person's entire claim to fame, post Idol success, and earning power is 100 percent dependent on the fact that he appeared on AI. Without that, he'd be nothing. So, to me, in my little brain, connecting him with AI in news stories isn't out of place. He has, and unless he truly achieves the stupendous (which I frankly don't see, but he could surprise me) always will have, a connection to the show. That's just a fact. The mention of that fact isn't offensive in any way.
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  6. #766
    Scrappy Spartan Broadway's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella;2470062;
    Speedbump, there are plenty of people who don't know who Clay is. That can be said for most celebrities, but nobody's denying that there a lot of people more famous. Who cares? If I don't recognize the name of some "celebrity" in a news article, I don't necessarily care about what their claim to fame is.
    If you read a news report about someone that you don't know you don't ask "who???"?

    The news media is simply trying to proactively and responsibly address that question. Journalism 101.

  7. #767
    On a cupcake mission! Lois Lane's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by lei;2470053;
    And to paraphrase MissThing, reporters of this event aren't obliged to plug his concerts.
    Exactly. It doesn't matter if he was flying to a concert or flying to see his grandmother. The news (such as it is) in this story is Clay Aiken--who is best known to the General Public for his "American Idol" connection--got into a tiff with a woman on the plane. As for the media mentioning his "AI" connections too much, let it be said that when George Harrison and John Lennon died--decades after they were already household names worldwide--stories written about them referred to them as members of the Beatles.

    I almost get the feeling that some Clay fans are ashamed of his "AI" past and don't want it ever mentioned again. That doing so "cheapens" his accomplishments.

    And while I'm not a big fan of every single article the media writes/reports, the media is not the cause of the idiotic things that some of our idols do. Yes, the media may sensationalize it--but when it comes right down to it, it's the celebrity that got that snowball rolling, all by himself...

  8. #768
    FORT Fogey srs_in_Oregon's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    I actually agree with the american idol stuff..for better or worse, Clay will always be known as the guy that was on american idol...any of his success after that fact wont erase that..

    and Clay himself said that he would go back on the show whenever he is asked...so he agrees that he wouldnt be where he was without american idol.

    now, nobody wants to be known for that forever, but the fact remains that he always will be.
    Clay Aiken "when everyones working on it change isnt impossible, its inevetible"

  9. #769
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    It is very common, when news articles are written about things that happen during travel (private plane crashes, auto accidents, or incidents that happen en route), that if the article gives more than the most rudimentary details (e.g., name, age, location), the reason for the trip is mentioned. E.g., "the Jones family were en route to a family reunion in Denver when their car went off the road."

    Do you seriously think that, if some "newsworthy" incident happened involving one of the AI6 finalists on their way to one of the AI6 concerts, the media would neglect to mention that fact (thus "plugging" the AI tour)?

    And, once more, it's not about AI having been mentioned.
    Having gotten your career start on AI (4 or more years ago) is not the same thing as being known mainly or almost entirely for that.

    Probably less than 70,000,000 people worldwide watched much (if any) of AI2. Their viewership for the AI5 finale -- the highest yet of any AI episode -- was a little under 40 million. But appearing on shows like Larry King, SNL, GMA, Days Of Our Lives, The Tonight Show, Regis & Kelly, The View, etc., over a period of several years, surely has expanded Clay's media exposure tremendously. (Not to mention the print media.)
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  10. #770
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway;2470094;
    If you read a news report about someone that you don't know you don't ask "who???"?
    If they say "comedian/actor George Lopez," I don't find myself wondering "What is he most known for?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway;2470094;
    The news media is simply trying to proactively and responsibly address that question. Journalism 101.
    Not by mentioning Clay's ties to AI repeatedly and the fact that he was runner up in 2003 twice, while not answering the question, "Why was a guy who lives in Raleigh and records in NY (or LA) flying from Houston to Tulsa?"

    And while not even addressing the question most likely to have been on people's minds: "What the heck happened, anyway?"

    I know I'm repeating myself, but nobody yet has explained why the public would be interested in this story if Clay were merely a runner-up on Idol 4 years ago. Or why it's more "responsible journalism" to cite American Idol several times but not mention anything whatsoever about Clay's post-Idol career. The best journalism gives the most information in the space alloted.

    So I wouldn't take much issue with something like "American Idol singer Clay Aiken, en route from Houston to Tulsa for a concert, was involved in a dispute with a fellow passenger. ... " Or even, "Pop singer Clay Aiken, the 2003 runner-up on American Idol, ... ."
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